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[font="Verdana][size="2"]Political power grows out of the barrel of a gun.[/size][/font]
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Mao Tse-Tung[/size][/font]
[font="Verdana][size="2"]If Socialism can only be realized when the intellectual development of all the people permits it, then we shall not see Socialism for at least five hundred years.[/size][/font][font="Verdana][size="2"]
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Vladimir Lenin[/size][/font]
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[font="Verdana][size="2"]When one makes a Revolution, one cannot mark time; one must always go forward - or go back. He who now talks about the "freedom of the press" goes backward, and halts our headlong course towards Socialism.[/size][/font]
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Vladimir Lenin[/size][/font]
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The goal of socialism is communism.
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Vladimir Lenin[/size][/font]
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[font="Verdana][size="2"]Death is the solution to all problems. No man - no problem.[/size][/font]
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Joseph Stalin[/size][/font]
[font="Verdana][size="2"]It is enough that the people know there was an election. The people who cast the votes decide nothing. The people who count the votes decide everything.[/size][/font]
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Joseph Stalin[/size][/font]
[font="Verdana][size="2"]Everyone imposes his own system as far as his army can reach.[/size][/font]
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Joseph Stalin[/size][/font]
[font="Verdana][size="2"]I am not a communist and neither is the revolutionary movement.[/size][/font]
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Fidel Castro[/size][/font]
[font="Verdana][size="2"]It was patriotism, not communism, that inspired me.[/size][/font]
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Ho Chi Minh[/size][/font]
[font="Verdana][size="2"]You will kill 10 of our men, and we will kill 1 of yours, and in the end it will be you who tire of it.[/size][/font]
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Ho Chi Minh[/size][/font]
These are the words of dictators - not true Communists. It is interesting that none of them actually claimed their countries had achieved Communism.
-- Oh please LOL
For Pete's Sake Aspen, these dictators can say anything they want and will say anything they want to manipulate opinons of those dumb enough to believe them.
They are (or were) lying mass murdering dictators.
But they are the shining example of the end result of each of those country's best attempts at pure Communism.
The REASON despots like this end up in charge of these "great Communist experiments" is because the only way to keep anything resembling a Communist system in place for a group larger than a small commune is to have a strong central leadership or leader.
And when it begins to inevitably fail and people don't want to participate, it takes a dictator to keep it in place. Freedoms must be curtailed and those wishing to flee the system must be stopped.
The statement that these are dictatorships and "true Communism" has never been tried is absolutely false. These dictators have come to power every single time the true Communism has ben tried.
I don't understand you.
First you say earlier in this thread - and I quote:
"So you are really under the illusion the Communism is somehow more evil than other man-made government systems?!?! "
That implies that the freedoms of an imperfect Commnist system are no more beneficial or detrimental than the freedoms granted under an imperfect Capitalist Republic (that you called a Corporate Oligarchy).
- Freedom of press
- Free elections/the right to vote for whomever you wish
- Freedom to protest publically (even for those not legally in this country)
- Freedom to a fair trial
- Freedom to leave the country if you wish
- Freedom to attend the church of your choice
- Freedom to go to the school you choose
- Freedom to study whatever you wish
- Freedom to choose any profession you want
- Freedom to live anywhere you want
- Freedom to read whatever you want
These are ALL freedoms we enjoy under a "Corporate Oligarchy" (as you call it) that have NEVER been offered even under the most aggressive attempt at Communism.
The simple fact is, Yes, there are other man-made systems that are (much) better than communism.
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Monks and nuns have committed to a life of obedience and community property. God is not incapable with Communism. They care for each other's needs - including end of life care - in return they are cared for. Communism is the closest comparison.
-- You leave out a very important point. Monks and Nuns join knowing they are surrending EVERYTHING.
The amount of work - decided for them
The type of work they do - decided for them
The clothes they wear - decided for them
Personal items allowed to keep - decided for them
When and where they eat - decided for them
Time off (if any) - decided for them
Personal finances - are you kidding?
For it to work these people must totally surrender every part of their life to this sytem. God doesn't call us to that that. Why?
Because then the system then becomes the focus, not God.
The system decides what is best for the person, not God.
The welfare of the system becomes the focus, not God.
This system decides where you work, how long you work, what job you will have, what, if any free time you will have, etc, not God
You surrender your choice of how much work you do, your choice of the work you do, basically everything - to a group, not to God.
And if you feel God calls you to something else and the leaership of the group disagrees you either:
1. Surrender to their will and don't do it
2. Do it anyway and be punished by the group
3. Leave the group voluntarily
4. Be forced out of the group for disobedience
The choice of communal living within the early Christian church was just that - a choice. and not required by God.
The simple fact is, more has been done to care for our fellow man outside communist or communal systems than have EVER been done on the inside.
The only way to have the system work within a communal or communist system is to surrender everything and trust the judgement of man, not God.