Wormwood

[Jay Ross]

"Run lists together?" "Confusion?" Wishing to mock me, you mock the Word of God. The words were all directly from the scriptures, all fulfilled:

Daniel 9:24
"Seventy weeks are determined For your people and for your holy city,
To finish the transgression, (fulfilled: Isaiah 53:8)
To make an end of sins, (fulfilled: Hebrews 9:26)
To make reconciliation for iniquity, (fulfilled: Romans 5:11)
To bring in everlasting righteousness, (fulfilled: 1 Corinthians 1:30)
To seal up vision and prophecy, (fulfilled: Luke 24:44)
And to anoint the Most Holy." (fulfilled: Acts 4:27)

No confusion, except in those who do not believe.

ScottA, you have put references against each of the lines but the first two lines with the references given do not match up with the reality of Daniel's people or for the holy city. Israel has not yet been redeemed nor have Daniel's people stopped their iniquities yet. As recorded in the OT and Romans_11:25-26, Israel will not be saved until the end of the 2,300 years of the heathens trampling the Sanctuary of God and His Hosts, i.e. Israel. Israel will be redeemed after the judgement of the heavenly Hosts and the Kings of the Earth at the time of Armageddon. (Isa_24:21-22 still to be fulfilled)

I did not wish to mock you ScottA, you did that all by yourself by trying to match the six bible references with the lines that you did, and as such it was you who was mocking God, because of your lack of understanding of the Daniel 9:24 prophecy. It was you who tried to make verse 24 all about Jesus without understanding what the prophecy was all about.

Shalom

 

[Earburner]

ScottA, you have put references against each of the lines but the first two lines with the references given do not match up with the reality of Daniel's people or for the holy city. Israel has not yet been redeemed nor have Daniel's people stopped their iniquities yet. As recorded in the OT and Romans_11:25-26, Israel will not be saved until the end of the 2,300 years of the heathens trampling the Sanctuary of God and His Hosts, i.e. Israel. Israel will be redeemed after the judgement of the heavenly Hosts and the Kings of the Earth at the time of Armageddon. (Isa_24:21-22 still to be fulfilled)

I did not wish to mock you ScottA, you did that all by yourself by trying to match the six bible references with the lines that you did, and as such it was you who was mocking God, because of your lack of understanding of the Daniel 9:24 prophecy. It was you who tried to make verse 24 all about Jesus without understanding what the prophecy was all about.

Shalom

I am surprised at you, if you are Jewish!
You don't celebrate Hanukkah, which is in reference to the fulfilled 2300 days and the Temple/sanctuary restoration by Judas Maccabeus?
Daniel 8 is very clear about the 2300 day prophecy, that has already transpired years ago, 2,182 years to be exact.

 

[Earburner]

So then, within 118 years, you are implying that a temple building will be built in Jeruselem?
If so, then "Mystery Babylon the Great" will be fully manifested, because for all intent and purposes, according to Dan. 9:27 and the words of Jesus, Israel shouldn't exist.
[27] And he [Jesus] shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he [Jesus] shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he [Jesus] shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate

 

[Giuliano]

Wow, obviously you have given me something to think about. I have never looked at it that way. Will pray on this for clearer understanding. Thank you.

Blessings

More to think about: There are three heavens -- sometimes referred to as being of fire, air and water. Paul said Satan was prince of the air. . . .

Ultimately he needs to be thrown down to the lowest heaven of water, and then to the earth -- and after that bound for a thousand years.

 

[Jay Ross]

I am surprised at you, if you are Jewish!
You don't celebrate Hanukkah, which is in reference to the fulfilled 2300 days and the Temple/sanctuary restoration by Judas Maccabeus?
Daniel 8 is very clear about the 2300 day prophecy, that has already transpired years ago, 2,182 years to be exact.

So then, within 118 years, you are implying that a temple building will be built in Jeruselem?
If so, then "Mystery Babylon the Great" will be fully manifested, because for all intent and purposes, according to Dan. 9:27 and the words of Jesus, Israel shouldn't exist.
[27] And he [Jesus] shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he [Jesus] shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he [Jesus] shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate

As I said in my previous reply to you: -

I will get back to you when you demonstrate a little more understanding.

Shalom

 

[Earburner]

As I said in my previous reply to you: -


Shalom

That is a clever way of not replying. Put the blame on the poster as being ignorant, while making yourself appear to others that you are the one who is knowledgeable.
Waiting...

 

[Earburner]

More to think about: There are three heavens -- sometimes referred to as being of fire, air and water. Paul said Satan was prince of the air. . . .

Ultimately he needs to be thrown down to the lowest heaven of water, and then to the earth -- and after that bound for a thousand years.

Jesus said that He came to bind the "strong man" first, and THEN spoil his goods.
Clue: the spoiling began on the Day of Pentecost, therefore satan was bound to this earth on the day of Christ's death and resurrection. Mat. 12:29

 

[brakelite]

Satan is in a "no win situation" and he knows it.
Having been cast out of Heaven (Jesus beheld it),
and now that Jesus has first appeared, "the strong man" (satan- Matthew 12:29) has been "bound" to this planet, in "chains of darkness"(2 Peter 2:4), which means he has no access to Heaven or the Light of Christ.
Yet, from that situation, we are told that he will be loosed for a little season. Rev. 20:3,7, after the thousand years, which is NOW and has been, the Age of God's Grace. YES! Even the thousand years
IS SYMBOLIC!!
2 Peter 3[8] But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Why is it NOW, and NOT future?
Ans. See the following verse in 2 Peter:
[9] The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

I strongly believe that satan was loosed in the mid 1800s. Man, for thousands of years prior, wasn't genius enough to improve on the " wheel" until then.
So where did man's sudden genius come from these past few hundred years?
None other but satan!!

I liked your previous post because it indicated you were willing to think. A star burning like a lamp falling from heaven... Starts throughout scripture were used as metaphors for rulers... As in Joseph's dream regarding his brothers... See also
KJV Revelation 1
20 The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.

And

KJV Revelation 3
Letter to the Church in Sardis
1 And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead.

And

KJV Revelation 12
4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

All of which refer to angels. Now that does not mean every reference to stars means angels... But they must be a consideration, especially in regards to what I personal believe will be a greatly more experiential manifestation of spiritual powers on earth in the final days.
Your post above however I cannot agree with... It goes too far.

 

[brakelite]

This reminds me of 2 Kings 4:38-41, and the remedy was flour...

Which becomes bread... But not by bread alone does man live, but every word of God, and if there's famine for the word, then would be bitterness...

 

[Jay Ross]

That is a clever way of not replying. Put the blame on the poster as being ignorant, while making yourself appear to others that you are the one who is knowledgeable.
Waiting...

What I said was that, "I will get back to you when you demonstrate a little more understanding." So far you have demonstrated a lack of understanding, even with what I have previously written, as you have inserted your understanding into what I had written and had ignored the time reference that I had provided and applied a reference timeline which had no connection with what I had written, making claim of when the temple will be rebuilt according to your understanding. Why would I begin any discussion with someone like yourself with your preconceived notions of what is still to happen. There is no point from my understanding of actually starting a conversation with you.

Shalom

 

[ScottA]

ScottA, you have put references against each of the lines but the first two lines with the references given do not match up with the reality of Daniel's people or for the holy city. Israel has not yet been redeemed nor have Daniel's people stopped their iniquities yet.

That is not a true statement. "It is finished." Christ was the Last, saying that all would be fulfilled that generation.

Your comments are against Christ.

As recorded in the OT and Romans_11:25-26, Israel will not be saved until the end of the 2,300 years of the heathens trampling the Sanctuary of God and His Hosts, i.e. Israel. Israel will be redeemed after the judgement of the heavenly Hosts and the Kings of the Earth at the time of Armageddon. (Isa_24:21-22 still to be fulfilled)

No...but as it is written:

1 Thessalonians 4:15
"We say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep."

 

[Bobby Jo]

... Your comments are against Christ.

... it's just an unfortunate circumstance that Jesus must have slept during History Class, because HIS so called "prophecies" don't align with world events. But we can all TRUST that Jesus is a Preterist, and that Preterists are ABSOLUTELY CORRECT in EVERY doctrine they espouse!

Whew,
Bobby Jo

 

[Jay Ross]

That is not a true statement. "It is finished." Christ was the Last, saying that all would be fulfilled that generation.

Your comments are against Christ.

No...but as it is written:

1 Thessalonians 4:15
"We say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep."

ScottA how do you come up with the weird out of context references? When you begin to show some wisdom, then it may be possible to have a conversation with you, but when you make your bold statements that your understanding is the only correct way of visualizing things, then it is the blind, i.e. ScottA, leading the other blind people. Thankfully I have laughing matter that enables me to see through the false statements that you are making.

Shalom

 

[ScottA]

ScottA how do you come up with the weird out of context references? When you begin to show some wisdom, then it may be possible to have a conversation with you, but when you make your bold statements that your understanding is the only correct way of visualizing things, then it is the blind, i.e. ScottA, leading the other blind people. Thankfully I have laughing matter that enables me to see through the false statements that you are making.

Shalom

Apparently you do not know that what I do is the same as recorded of the prophets sent by God, whom people just like you in former days killed for the same reasons you now claim; and even worse than them, you laugh. Even Christ picked a part of the scriptures, seemingly out of context, and made proclamations. And these things you do not know.

 

[Jay Ross]

Apparently you do not know that what I do is the same as recorded of the prophets sent by God, whom people just like you in former days killed for the same reasons you now claim; and even worse than them, you laugh. Even Christ pick a part of the scriptures, seemingly out of context, and made proclamations. And these things you do not know.

As I said ScottA, when you begin to show some wisdom then perhaps I would be interested in having some conversations with you, but your usual tactic is to attack the person and not the material posted. I did post a rebuttal to your so clamed infallible post previously and only disagreed with the first two bible references you claimed were associated with Israel finishing their idolatrous behaviour, and to make an end to their sinning. God set aside 490 years for Daniel's people and the Temple practices to come into line with His requirements, but apparently you have great difficulty in seeing this. If you were truly a prophet of God then you would not need someone like myself who makes no claims of grandeur, as you apparently do and have, to reveal this truth to you.

So be it, but as for you being a prophet of God, that is questionable at best.

Shalom

 

[ScottA]

As I said ScottA, when you begin to show some wisdom then perhaps I would be interested in having some conversations with you, but your usual tactic is to attack the person and not the material posted. I did post a rebuttal to your so clamed infallible post previously and only disagreed with the first two bible references you claimed were associated with Israel finishing their idolatrous behaviour, and to make an end to their sinning. God set aside 490 years for Daniel's people and the Temple practices to come into line with His requirements, but apparently you have great difficulty in seeing this. If you were truly a prophet of God then you would not need someone like myself who makes no claims of grandeur, as you apparently do and have, to reveal this truth to you.

So be it, but as for you being a prophet of God, that is questionable at best.

Shalom

No...this is the perfect example of exactly what the problem is: You read my proclamations made in the fashion of the prophets sent by God, and then, thinking yourself wise, YOU expect to be treated with respect in order to have a conversation.

Sorry, that's not how this works. You got your special invitation.

 

[Stan B]

You have no clue about this matter. It would be safer for you to drop it.

Enoch, I would tend to concur, that there is no common ground for reasonable discussion with a preterist, so I really didn't want to engage in a discussion where there was no chance of learning anything. So I will just provide a few off-the-cuff comments.

Daniel prophesies “70 weeks have been decreed for your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to make an end of sin, to make atonement for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the most holy place." Daniel 9:24

While pretty much every Bible translation declares "seventy weeks", I think that was merely for the purpose of simplicity. Daniel's prophesy from the Hebrew actually declares 70x7s or 70 heptads, 'groups' of seven upon his people.

From what I read in Scripture, it was a threefold prophecy:

1. First of all it was an immediate prophecy was 'for your people' concerning the present Babylonian Captivity, that their captivity would last for 7x70, i.e. 490 weeks or 70 years.

They were in captivity because they failed to observe the 7th year + Jubilee sabbaths for a period of 7x70. So now they would observe the sabbaths in a 7x70 period of captivity, to fulfill "the word of the Lord by the mouth of Jeremiah, until the land had enjoyed its sabbaths. All the days of its desolation it kept sabbath until 70 years were completed." 2 Chronicles 36:21

"This whole land will be a desolation and a horror, and these nations will serve the king of Babylon 70 years." Jeremiah 25:11

“For thus says the Lord, ‘When 70 years have been completed for Babylon, I will visit you and fulfill My good word to you, to bring you back home and give you all the good things I have promised." Jeremiah 29:10

2. The next aspect of the prophecy declares when the Anointed One will arrive: 69x7 weeks (of years), but is then cut-off, i.e when He was crucified, with one week left to go..

3.The last 70 x 7s was the time "to make atonement for iniquity (sacrificial system re-instituted) . . . to anoint the most holy place (the third Temple)." Daniel 9:24, which is yet future.

The entire 70x7 system instituted "upon your people" Israel permeates Scripture.

It starts out with "Terah lived 70 years, and became the father of Abram" Genesis 11

And "the sons of Joseph, who were born to him in Egypt were two; all the persons of the house of Jacob, who came to Egypt, were 70". Genesis 46:27

The second Temple and Jerusalem were destroyed in 70AD.

In the End times, instead of talking about years, we are talking about Jubilees.

The US Embassy opened at its Jerusalem location on May 14, 2018, the 70th anniversary of the creation of the modern State of Israel. It is also the 70th Jubilee (70x50) since the inception of the Nation of Israel. Although Israel again became a partial nation on May 14, 1948, it was yet incomplete until the 69th Jubiblee, celebrated by the 6 day war of 1967, wherein West and East Jerusalem finally became a united Jerusalem, and Israel became a complete nation with the Holy City once again united as one.

 

[Giuliano]

The Jews say the second Temple era lasted for 490 years. That sounds right to me.

 

[Bobby Jo]

Enoch, I would tend to concur, that there is no common ground for reasonable discussion with a preterist, ...

Quite the OPPOSITE. YOU violate the angel's instructions in 12:4 & 9, and assign ANCIENT fulfillments. I COMPLY with the angel's instructions and find a fulfillment for the era approximate to the International Recognition of the State of Israel. -- So if anyone comes closer to the Preterist position, IT'S YOU!

While pretty much every Bible translation declares "seventy weeks", I think that was merely for the purpose of simplicity. Daniel's prophesy from the Hebrew actually declares 70x7s or 70 heptads, 'groups' of seven upon his people.

A "simple" person when asked to go for a ride in a "cool" car would grap their hat, coat, & gloves. A SMART person would recognize "slang". As such, Daniel did NOT use the Usual concise (i.e., =490) Feminine Gender text. Instead he used the INCONCISE (i.e., ≠490) Unusual Masculine Gender text not found ANYWHERE ELSE in Scripture EXCEPT this 9th Chapter of Daniel.

1. First of all it was an immediate prophecy was 'for your people' concerning the present Babylonian Captivity, that their captivity would last for 7x70, i.e. 490 weeks or 70 years.

AGAIN, your "interpretation" defies the literal Hebrew "biyn"/"shama" text, regarding in which "BOOKS" Daniel was referencing. YOU presume the solution was Jeremiah 25 which Daniel referenced, but Daniel points to another OT BOOK for the interpretation, -- a book with more than 70 Chapters --!

2. The next aspect of the prophecy declares when the Anointed One will arrive: 69x7 ...

As asserted previously, there is NO Scriptural or Societal precedent for a number (i.e. seven and sixty-two) which needs to be SUMMED instead of conveyed as SIXTY-NINE. (Ref. Post #80.) Thus the SEVEN is one duration with an "anointed one" (small "a") and the SIXTY-TWO is a SECOND duration with a SECOND "anointed one" (small "a").

3.The last 70 x 7s was the time "to make atonement for iniquity (sacrificial system re-instituted) . . . to anoint the most holy place (the third Temple)." Daniel 9:24, which is yet future.

In FACT, the seventy weeks are all fulfilled as of the year 2,000AD.

The US Embassy opened at its Jerusalem location on May 14, 2018, the 70th anniversary of the creation of the modern State of Israel.

Not pertinent to this discussion, -- but an IMPORTANT Date!

It is also the 70th Jubilee (70x50) since the inception of the Nation of Israel. Although Israel again became a partial nation on May 14, 1948, it was yet incomplete until the 69th Jubiblee, celebrated by the 6 day war of 1967, wherein West and East Jerusalem finally became a united Jerusalem, and Israel became a complete nation with the Holy City once again united as one.

Again, not pertinent to this discussion.



But as provided to @Enoch111, PLEASE BELIEVE THE COMMENTATOR LIES. It's difficult for most people to accept new ideas, when you're comfortable with the LIES. So BELIEVE THE LIES. -- Believing lies doesn't give you a headache. Thinking does.

Bobby Jo

 

[Bobby Jo]

The Jews say the second Temple era lasted for 490 years. That sounds right to me.

Now THAT's funny. Out of all the nonsense posted in this Forum ... YOU win today's PRIZE!