Write My Laws on Your Hearts

[CharismaticLady]

Wro

Wrong.

The old covenant is presently for sinners as Paul says here...


1 Tim 1:
8 But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;

9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,

10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;...

...it will not stop judging sinners as stated above, until the end of the world....

For verily I say unto you, Till. heaven and earth pass, one jot or one. tittle shall in no wise pass from. the law, till all be fulfilled.

What I'm curious about in this passage is, is it the "Law" of the Ten Commandments, or the eternal law that sinners will be judged by. Personally, I believe the eternal law of loving God with all your heart, mind and body, and loving your neighbor, rather than someone who doesn't keep the Sabbath.

cc: @marks

 

[Truther]

What I'm curious about in this passage is, is it the "Law" of the Ten Commandments, or the eternal law that sinners will be judged by. Personally, I believe the eternal law of loving God with all your heart, mind and body, and loving your neighbor, rather than someone who doesn't keep the Sabbath.

cc: @marks

1 Tim 1:6-10 is speaking of the O.T. Law in it's entirety.

Commentators divided and diced it up to impose "partial Law"(tithing etc) on the church.

 

[CharismaticLady]

1 Tim 1:6-10 is speaking of the O.T. Law in it's entirety.

Commentators divided and diced it up to impose "partial Law"(tithing etc) on the church.

It is all or nothing. The New Covenant is a completely different approach to the problem of sin. Therefore, it is "not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt." The new laws don't have to be taught. They are part of our new born again nature.

Jeremiah 31:31-34
31 “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— 32 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them, says the Lord. 33 But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 34 No more shall every man teach his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, says the Lord. For I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.”

 

[quietthinker]

" The new laws don't have to be taught. They are part of our new born again nature.

Everything needs to be taught....that was the role of Paul...to teach. That was the purpose of his letters....to teach, to encourage, to rebuke. Rebuking would not be necessary if the born again nature was all informed and didn't require learning.

Magical thinking is not part of the scriptural narrative.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Everything needs to be taught....that was the role of Paul...to teach. That was the purpose of his letters....to teach, to encourage, to rebuke. Rebuking would not be necessary if the born again nature was all informed and didn't require learning.

Magical thinking is not part of the scriptural narrative.

Paul started churches by spreading the gospel to unbelievers. But to be a true Christian, our nature has to be changed to that of the Spirit.

 

[quietthinker]

Paul started churches by spreading the gospel to unbelievers. But to be a true Christian, our nature has to be changed to that of the Spirit.

His letters were written to believers.

 

[CharismaticLady]

His letters were written to believers.

What do you think Jeremiah 31:31-34 means about our New Covenant? Its in #263 above.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Magical thinking is not part of the scriptural narrative.

I guess you'd be surprised.

 

[quietthinker]

What do you think Jeremiah 31:31-34 means about our New Covenant? Its in #263 above.

Interesting that you should quote from the 'old covenant' which you say no longer applies....to underpin the new covenant which you think it opposes.

Here are Jeremiahs words...just so we don't need to toggle between posts.....

Jeremiah 31:31-34
31 “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— 32 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them, says the Lord. 33 But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 34 No more shall every man teach his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, says the Lord. For I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.”

The New Covenant was made with Jesus ...representative of Man....All who know Jesus are led of God.

'New' in the sense here in Jeremiah, does never negate 'Old' in the context of the Decalogue.....Jesus honoured it, he did not negate it.
Further.....'new' also allows for the cessation of animal sacrifices and the various 'ceremonial' laws that foreshadowed Jesus.

He asks us to 'follow him' which in my understanding means honour God by keeping his Commandments not just giving lip service to a 'new covenant'. It also means to tread the path he trod.....ie, he gave up his life.
Consider that last statement....'gave up his life'....not just meaning to die but following no selfish inclinations which he was constantly harassed with by the devil.....the devil appealing to 'these' things evidenced by his temptations in the wilderness.

The Decalogue reveals the principles of unselfishness, be they on stone or in your heart. To pit one against the other is speaking in ignorance.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Interesting that you should quote from the 'old covenant' which you say no longer applies....to underpin the new covenant which you think it opposes.

You do know it is a prophecy about the New Covenant don't you. It is important to know whatever we can about it. Just like Daniel 9:24.

I'll finish reading the rest of your post tomorrow, because I do want to read it, but it is bedtime. Good night QT

 

[quietthinker]

yes....Good night CL

 

[Ferris Bueller]

It is all or nothing.

All of the law finds it's fulfillment through Christ and faith in him and is upheld in this New Covenant (Romans 3:31). It's just that some laws do not need to be literally fulfilled anymore having been eternally upheld and satisfied through the finished work of Christ on the cross (i.e. animal sacrifice for sin). And there are laws that we now understand as pointers towards the fulfillment of greater truth (1 Corinthians 9:9).

 

[Truther]

It is all or nothing. The New Covenant is a completely different approach to the problem of sin. Therefore, it is "not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt." The new laws don't have to be taught. They are part of our new born again nature.

Jeremiah 31:31-34
31 “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— 32 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them, says the Lord. 33 But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 34 No more shall every man teach his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, says the Lord. For I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.”

That is why we are not under the O.T. Law, but the sinners are. We only get a portion of that passage that we are included into. We still have to witness etc.

 

[quietthinker]

All of the law finds it's fulfillment through Christ and faith in him and is upheld in this New Covenant (Romans 3:31). It's just that some laws do not need to be literally fulfilled anymore having been eternally upheld and satisfied through the finished work of Christ on the cross (i.e. animal sacrifice for sin). And there are laws that we now understand as pointers towards the fulfillment of greater truth (1 Corinthians 9:9).

Consider this FB....the expression, 'the finished work of Christ' is derived from Jesus saying 'it is finished' and a whole modern day theology has been built around it.....the question is, what is it that is finished (for surely something was finished) because the work of Christ is not finished as such. He is in Heaven interceding and he is yet to return to collect the redeemed purchase.

Strictly speaking the whole sin scenario including Jesus' role as Saviour won't be finished till evil is extinguished.

The Hebrew tabernacle service (that's right, the one that holds no interest for most modern folk calling themselves Christian) was a representation of the plan of Redemption which I believe it is. It tells us that the sacrifice of the lamb at the altar was the earlier stage of this plan. Don't you think that is interesting? I think it has something to say which is in our interest to understand....to revisit.....to join the dots so to speak so a coherent picture emerges from all scripture.

 

[marks]

Consider this FB....the expression, 'the finished work of Christ' is derived from Jesus saying 'it is finished' and a whole modern day theology has been built around it.....the question is, what is it that is finished (for surely something was finished) because the work of Christ is not finished as such. He is in Heaven interceding and he is yet to return to collect the redeemed purchase.

Strictly speaking the whole sin scenario including Jesus' role as Saviour won't be finished till evil is extinguished.

The Hebrew tabernacle service (that's right, the one that holds no interest for most modern folk calling themselves Christian) was a representation of the plan of Redemption which I believe it is. It tells us that the sacrifice of the lamb at the altar was the earlier stage of this plan. Don't you think that is interesting? I think it has something to say which is in our interest to understand....to revisit.....to join the dots so to speak so a coherent picture emerges from all scripture.

I think what Jesus finished on the cross was our reconciliation to God.

Much love!

 

[marks]

What I'm curious about in this passage is, is it the "Law" of the Ten Commandments, or the eternal law that sinners will be judged by. Personally, I believe the eternal law of loving God with all your heart, mind and body, and loving your neighbor, rather than someone who doesn't keep the Sabbath.

cc: @marks

I don't see a distinction in this passage of which Law. Instead, I see the description of those for whom the Law is given. Ungodly and sinners, and so on.

Romans 8
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

When I think of being judged by the Law, I see this to be the same as being judged for my works, which God will do. I think that each of us are responsible to God for those things He's told each of us, whether it be through the Jewish Law, through other Scriptures, or through our conscience, or any other way.

I think the ungodly and sinners break all of God's law, failing to love God and others, and they fail to keep the Jewish Law, and they fail to live up to their conscience. They do this being hopelessly corrupted children of Adam.

Much love!

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Consider this FB....the expression, 'the finished work of Christ' is derived from Jesus saying 'it is finished' and a whole modern day theology has been built around it...

That's good, but I was thinking of this...

Hebrews 10:25-26
25Nor did he enter heaven to offer himself again and again, the way the high priest enters the Most Holy Place every year with blood that is not his own. 26Otherwise Christ would have had to suffer many times since the creation of the world. But he has appeared once for all at the culmination of the ages to do away with sin by the sacrifice of himself.

His work is done in that it does not have to be repeated over and over again.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

He is in Heaven interceding and he is yet to return to collect the redeemed purchase.

The completed ministry and sacrifice of Christ continually intercedes for us because he always lives and never dies like the Levitical priests did, and his sacrifice is never consumed on the altar, like the animal sacrifices were, but remains there forever. His completed ministry remains and so it is in that way that it continually intercedes for us.

 

[CharismaticLady]

I think what Jesus finished on the cross was our reconciliation to God.

Much love!

What separated us in the first place was SIN. Jesus came to take away our sin, and in Him there is no sin. We are dead to sin, thus reconciled to God. You can't be reconciled to God and still sin.

16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness?

 

[marks]

What separated us in the first place was SIN. Jesus came to take away our sin, and in Him there is no sin. We are dead to sin, thus reconciled to God. You can't be reconciled to God and still sin.

16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness?

Remember Paul's writing to the Corinthians, how, even though he didn't know anything he had done wrong, yet still he didn't consider that reason to thing he hadn't actually done something wrong.

And look at the reasoning he gives.

5 Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God.

Will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the heart.

But remember . . . this is why Paul didn't judge himself!

He recognized that his own motivations and inner thoughts may even be hid from himself! And that being true for him, I think it's true for us also.

Adam lived in innocence until he learned good and evil, and innocence was lost. Now, we need to understand we're not to live that way any longer, and allow Jesus to be completely in charge.

Much love!