WWJD with LGBTQ?

[quietthinker]

Myself I do not see the word sovereign (applied to God) as meaning domination at all......to me it means He gives man and devil a lot of leeway to carry out their own will, but that still the Lord in His greatness remains sovereign over all that He allows man and devil to do.......He has foreknown and gone before everything and woven it all somehow into His ultimate purposes. And He has the power/authority to sovereignly intervene, eg, if we pray and ask, or if in His will and wisdom He is disallowing something or solving a problem etc.

But we need to know that the God of the old testament hasn't gone anywhere.....He still exists.......remember how He judged the Canaanites when their transgression had come to the full. Look how He judged Israel.....and then later judged Babylon. There is no shadow of turning with Him and He doesn't change. Look how He even judged Ananias and Sapphira. It's just that in God's mercy Jesus came to run interference (intercession) for those who would be willing to adhere to Him. We are still in that age of grace and mercy, His time of longsuffering which we are to account as salvation.......but that will come to an end at some point. Look for transgression to come to the full as that seems to be the pattern of scripture......the devil given a leash long enough to hang himself with essentially.....the harvest ripening of both sin and righteousness......weeds as well as good fruit maturing......and then judgment will fall.

Mar 4:29
“But when the grain ripens, immediately he puts in the sickle, because the harvest has come.”

Wheat and tares in the end of the world. End of the human race......it's not going to be a pretty picture if the examples of scripture and historical accounts are anything to go on, I don't even want to think about it.....and only those in the Lambs book of Life, who inherit eternal life, will go on into eternity. (And those who are alive and remain in that final hour will be rescued off this planet just in the nick of time to avoid being caught in the judgment.)

The OT record we have has been written by folk with a particular view of how God operates (his character)....and they act accordingly.....often barbarically.

Jesus also has a view of God's character, in fact Jesus being the Creator who is the only eyewitness of God and the communicator with the Prophets now bends backwards to reveal what God is like, revealing what they thought God was like is a long way from what he actually is like.
None of the OT writers had the view that God's nature is self sacrificing and love is manifest by vulnerability. They thought God was a sword wielding Demagogue who had his favourites which they considered they were.

The question is, who is it we are going to hear? Who were the disciples instructed to hear? The voice from the cloud on the Mountain said to listen to the Son. They had Moses and Elijah for centuries but now the Son has appeared; he is the one the Father is well pleased with; it is the Father who instructs who to hear. Ultimately this shifts how we understand/see Almighty God....Sovereign, if you like.

What do I think this means in real terms? It means if the words and activity we read about in the OT attributed to God do not align with the character of Jesus, we have every right to question them.
For those with courage and self honesty this inevitably results in paradigm shift ('born again') a far more enlightened view of God than many writers had, including what they attributed to God saying and doing.

The spotlight of scrutiny in the light of Jesus' revelation of The Father is absolutely necessary if the Father's heart is to open in our consciousness.
Without Jesus we have a God itching to get his pound of flesh.

 

[Jethro2]

That's NOT what is going on here.
I dare you to watch one of these videos.

No way.
Far far worse is going on here.
I do not know whether to feel sorry for those caught up in such abominations,
or even worse for those who promote demonic evil/ inspired/ activities ...

 

[St. SteVen]

What do I think this means in real terms? It means if the words and activity we read about in the OT attributed to God do not align with the character of Jesus, we have every right to question them.

Well said. Thanks!

/

 

[Jethro2]

Without Jesus we have a God itching to get his pound of flesh.

Jesus is Perfect in Judgment of sin and of sinners,
and will soon execute His Wrath upon the whole world of sinners as
revealed throughout His Word.

Jesus provides a way of repentance, not of promoting sin so abominably.

 

[quietthinker]

Well explain the difference then of what I interpreted you to say versus what you said.

Feel free....we are waiting with baited breath.

Thank you for baiting your breath....

Below are my words from post # 717
'We (men) have saddled God with the word 'Sovereign' which implies the domination principle which we then exploit or superimpose.'

When we use the word 'Sovereign' it comes packaged with the preprogrammed meaning (quiet unconsciously) of God being a dominator as opposed to a servant.
'Sovereign' in our minds, does not evoke self sacrificing, yet this is what Jesus came to reveal about God.

 

[JohnDB]

Thank you for baiting your breath....

Below are my words from post # 717
'We (men) have saddled God with the word 'Sovereign' which implies the domination principle which we then exploit or superimpose.'
When we use the word 'Sovereign' it comes packaged with the preprogrammed meaning (quiet unconsciously) of God being a dominator as opposes to a servant.
'Sovereign' in our minds, does not evoke self sacrificing, yet this is what Jesus came to reveal about God.

God can dominate (as in the case with Pharoah) by using his vice as a ring through his nose....

God does indeed use servant leadership....but not always. Jesus talked about Sodom and Gomorrah as they WOULD have repented if miracles had been performed....but it was too late for them and God was unwilling to serve them in this capacity. So God destroyed them. That's domination....

And again....Paul talked about Jewish Israel having a veil over their face to keep them from seeing or having ears to hear so that they could not repent by the Gospel message and be healed....that's another way of controlling things....

God is Sovereign....and does as He pleases. But this in no way negates God's kindness or goodness or grace.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Oh boy... this one might frost your barn. - LOL

Are you seriously promoting this viewpoint?

--- Viewer Discretion Advised ---


The presenter makes a good case.

Only those intent on justifying disgusting homosexual activity will ever see what these morons want to see in these Biblical relationships.
This made me physically sick…..I couldn’t watch it.

Jesus will let them know how he and his Father feel about this travesty….it’s like someone pouring the most foul and disgusting garbage on the word of God.

You’ve gone too far….

 

[The Learner]

not keeping up

 

[The Learner]

jump to here

 

[Lizbeth]

Commentary from Colby Martin on 1 Corinthians 6:9-11.

/

If that's what you believe then you are the blind leading the blind into a ditch. You've capitulated to the enemy and you yourself are lost.....a gospel such as that is not saving souls.

There is a way that seemeth so right and feeleth so right to man but leads to death. We're supposed to be saved from our sins, not justify and embrace them but rather do battle with and overcome them, whatever kind they happen to be. Be ye HOLY.....not carnal. And have FAITH that God can and will help those who will abide in Him, because without Him we are powerless. Love the truth and sow to the Spirit, yield to Him. Sowing to the flesh reaps destruction not salvation. Evil spirits in homosexuals are often discernible and that is what they need to be delivered from.....so it's obvious to anyone with discernment that homosexuality is not of God but is of the devil and his demons. And don't accuse that this picks on homosexuals because even a man looking after a woman to lust after her, is of the devil and wayward flesh too.

Man is without excuse because creation/nature itself lets us know what is right and wrong. Common sense is enough to understand what various body parts were created for and what they weren't created for. To use the body for what it wasn't intended by God is called ab-using it.

 

[St. SteVen]

If that's what you believe then you are the blind leading the blind into a ditch. You've capitulated to the enemy and you yourself are lost.....a gospel such as that is not saving souls.

Colby Martin is one of many outspoken gay Christians.
I'm only trying to get conservative Christians to realize these things.
The church is like a turtle withdrawn into its shell. Fearful and unaware.

/

 

[Lizbeth]

Colby Martin is one of many outspoken gay Christians.
I'm only trying to get conservative Christians to realize these things.
The church is like a turtle withdrawn into its shell. Fearful and unaware.

/

Do you agree with him? Are you afraid to say one way or the other? The only thing I fear is for those souls who are being sold a bunch of spiritual swampland in Florida. There are many scriptures besides Colossians 1:20 to go on....seeking the whole counsel of God. It's clear how God sees this.....unless one is blinded by their deception and stubbornly clinging to their own desires and ways instead of God's.

 

[St. SteVen]

Do you agree with him? Are you afraid to say one way or the other? The only thing I fear is for those souls who are being sold a bunch of spiritual swampland in Florida. There are many scriptures besides Colossians 1:20 to go on....seeking the whole counsel of God. It's clear how God sees this.....unless one is blinded by their deception and stubbornly clinging to their own desires and ways instead of God's.

"It's clear how God sees this....." ???
Is it?

The status quo agrees with you. Research yields some questions.
The status quo doesn't allow questions, so I instantly become the bad guy.
For the supposed "... souls who are being sold a bunch of spiritual swampland in Florida."

If someone claims to be a believer in Jesus Christ, do we nullify that if they also reveal that they are gay?
Even if it is a sin, aren't we all in the same boat?

Why do we single out one sin to make that claim?

--- PARODY ---

Conversation between Christian protester and doughnut shop patron. (customer)

Patron: What are doing picketing a donut shop?
Protester: I'm protesting the sin of gluttony.
Patron: Why on earth would you do that?
Protester: Gluttony is a sin, this has to stop.
Patron: Not everyone who buys a donut is a glutton.
Protester: We can't say that for sure.
Patron: Don't you have gluttony at your church?
Protester: No, we kicked them all out, unless they would repent.
Patron: Wow, for eating donuts?
Protester: No, gluttony takes many forms.
Patron: Right, like a church pot-luck dinner?
Protester: Exactly, they are banned at our church.
Patron: Did you know that some people are born with
weight-gain issues they will never get ahead of?
Protester: That's no excuse. Sin is sin.
Patron: You look exhausted, can I buy you a donut?
Protester: Sure, just don't tell the church.
Patron: Your secret's safe with me.

/

 

[Lizbeth]

"It's clear how God sees this....." ???
Is it?

The status quo agrees with you. Research yields some questions.
The status quo doesn't allow questions, so I instantly become the bad guy.
For the supposed "... souls who are being sold a bunch of spiritual swampland in Florida."

If someone claims to be a believer in Jesus Christ, do we nullify that if they also reveal that they are gay?
Even if it is a sin, aren't we all in the same boat?

Why do we single out one sin to make that claim?

--- PARODY ---

Conversation between Christian protester and doughnut shop patron. (customer)

Patron: What are doing picketing a donut shop?
Protester: I'm protesting the sin of gluttony.
Patron: Why on earth would you do that?
Protester: Gluttony is a sin, this has to stop.
Patron: Not everyone who buys a donut is a glutton.
Protester: We can't say that for sure.
Patron: Don't you have gluttony at your church?
Protester: No, we kicked them all out, unless they would repent.
Patron: Wow, for eating donuts?
Protester: No, gluttony takes many forms.
Patron: Right, like a church pot-luck dinner?
Protester: Exactly, they are banned at our church.
Patron: Did you know that some people are born with
weight-gain issues they will never get ahead of?
Protester: That's no excuse. Sin is sin.
Patron: You look exhausted, can I buy you a donut?
Protester: Sure, just don't tell the church.
Patron: Your secret's safe with me.

/

Yes it's very clear....in both testaments in various places. And you're only a "bad guy" if you agree with that video you brought. Which you still haven't said for sure, but the things you say and neglect to say indicate that you do. Unless you would care to clarify what you believe.

 

[St. SteVen]

Yes it's very clear....in both testaments in various places. And you're only a "bad guy" if you agree with that video you brought. Which you still haven't said for sure, but the things you say and neglect to say indicate that you do. Unless you would care to clarify what you believe.

Did you read the topic OP?
I'm not going to assume that the church got this right.

I noticed the other thread I started on the subject. This is a social issue for me.

Unethical treatment of LGBTQ humans / Understanding LGBTQ - 101

1) Were LGBTQ humans created in the image of God?
2) Does God love LGBTQ humans?
3) Did Jesus die to pay the death penalty for LGBTQ humans?
4) Has the church recognized these factors?
5) Has the church acted accordingly?
6) What is your church, or fellowship, doing about this issue?
7) What can you do personally to grapple with this issue?

/

 

[Lizbeth]

Did you read the topic OP?
I'm not going to assume that the church got this right.

I noticed the other thread I started on the subject. This is a social issue for me.

Unethical treatment of LGBTQ humans / Understanding LGBTQ - 101

1) Were LGBTQ humans created in the image of God?
2) Does God love LGBTQ humans?
3) Did Jesus die to pay the death penalty for LGBTQ humans?
4) Has the church recognized these factors?
5) Has the church acted accordingly?
6) What is your church, or fellowship, doing about this issue?
7) What can you do personally to grapple with this issue?

/

The church didn't get it wrong as far as knowing it is sin. Anyone who can read can easily see that in the bible if they are looking at it impartially.

Anyone can be saved who receives Christ by the Holy Spirit, and have the sins of their past forgiven......but then having been saved it is very important not to return to one's former sinful lifestyle or else they will run a very high risk of falling away and being rejected as reprobate silver. The devil isn't fooling around, he's out to kill spiritually speaking, so if anyone's counts their faith and the blood of Christ that saved them as precious it's vital that they not trample it into the mud and mire.

Heb 10:26-31

For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,

but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries.

Anyone who has rejected Moses’ law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses.

Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace?

For we know Him who said, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,” says the Lord. And again, “The LORD will judge His people.”

It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

 

[MA2444]

Horaay! There's a few people with good sense!

 

[St. SteVen]

Anyone can be saved who receives Christ by the Holy Spirit, and have the sins of their past forgiven......but then having been saved it is very important not to return to one's former sinful lifestyle...

Let's try this.
A monogamous, legally married, homosexual couple comes to the Lord.
Should they divorce, or remain in the relationship?
Would you allow them fellowship in your church? Leadership? Ministry?

1 Corinthians 7:21-24 NIV
Were you a slave when you were called? Don’t let it trouble you—
although if you can gain your freedom, do so.
22 For the one who was a slave when called to faith in the Lord is the Lord’s freed person;
similarly, the one who was free when called is Christ’s slave.
23 You were bought at a price; do not become slaves of human beings.
24 Brothers and sisters, each person, as responsible to God,
should remain in the situation they were in when God called them.

/

 

[St. SteVen]

It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

Should we all run and hide, like Adam and Eve?

"Who told you that you were naked?"

/

 

[St. SteVen]

For we know Him who said, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,” says the Lord. And again, “The LORD will judge His people.”

It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

Did Jesus die to save us from God?

Too bad that wasn't sufficient. Right?

/