Y do U believe what U believe, and do U have good reasons 4 those beliefs? - let's find out.

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ReChoired

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We all have different beliefs but it doesn't make one more correct then the other, it's just our own entitled beliefs and what we think and believe is who we are unless our beliefs change through circumstances and expieriences.
Sounds very 'relative', as if 'truth' doesn't really exist. It sounds a lot like 'common core' math, in which the answer is always correct, just so long as you demonstrate how you arrived at that answer, even if it involves illogic. However, Jesus said:

Luk_7:43 Simon answered and said, I suppose that he, to whom he forgave most. And he said unto him, Thou hast rightly judged.

Luk_10:28 And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.

Luk_12:57 Yea, and why even of yourselves judge ye not what is right?

Scripture speaks about true beliefs and false beliefs, and scripture is the judge between them., and thus the whole point of this thread. True doctrine, according to scripture, is not based upon experience, but based upon thus saith the LORD. For instance:

Isa 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

Act 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.
Act 17:12 Therefore many of them believed; also of honourable women which were Greeks, and of men, not a few.

1Th_5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.

1Co_14:32 And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets.

Gal_1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

Rev_2:15 So hast thou also them that hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitans, which thing I hate.
 
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Jennifer

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Sounds very 'relative', as if 'truth' doesn't really exist. It sounds a lot like 'common core' math, in which the answer is always correct, just so long as you demonstrate how you arrived at that answer, even if it involves illogic. However, Jesus said:

Luk_7:43 Simon answered and said, I suppose that he, to whom he forgave most. And he said unto him, Thou hast rightly judged.

Luk_10:28 And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.

Luk_12:57 Yea, and why even of yourselves judge ye not what is right?

Scripture speaks about true beliefs and false beliefs, and scripture is the judge between them., and thus the whole point of this thread. True doctrine, according to scripture, is not based upon experience, but based upon thus saith the LORD. For instance:

Isa 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

Act 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.
Act 17:12 Therefore many of them believed; also of honourable women which were Greeks, and of men, not a few.

1Th_5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.

1Co_14:32 And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets.

Gal_1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

Rev_2:15 So hast thou also them that hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitans, which thing I hate.
Yeah why?
 

Jennifer

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And yes people beliefs can change over expierences.. do you believe an atheist can covert to being Christian over some divine tramautic expierences in thier life to make them think about God in a way that changes thier beliefs? Everything in life can change our beliefs on things..etc and you can't change people unless they want to be changed and not everybody likes change or want to be changed for many reasons such as...so
 

Jennifer

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And don't cherry pick scriptures and scatter them in your responses cause that just confuses me in which specific scripture you are pointing at. You need to just put the scripture that's relevant to your post cause that just throws me off to what you are trying to point out to me...
 

ReChoired

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Well why not compare the things of the church with the things of Israel and see what you come up with.
This is the point of this thread, to even test those.

Or ask the holy spirit or Jesus for the answers cause farouk don't know
I was asking questions of farouk's 'dispy' theology based upon a scriptural foundation. It was to test the theology farouk put forward, and yet farouk did not answer those questions, which to me, shows a lack of willingness to delve into what farouk believes, and instead desires to simply promote what farouk believes, which is not the point of this thread. The Holy Spirit leads us into all truth (Psalms 25:5; John 16:13), and the Bible states:

Joh_17:17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.


..only God has all the answers
True, and yet God speaks saying:

Deu_29:29 The secret things belong unto the LORD our God: but those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children for ever, that we may do all the words of this law.
 

ReChoired

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And yes people beliefs can change over expierences..
Yes they can, and I never said they couldn't. What I did say was that is no foundation to base whether the belief is true. Experience is not the foundation by which to test. Experiences can be erroneous, such as drug-induced experiences, or lack of oxygen experiences, or physical damage experiences and so on. All experience, is to be tested by the scripture, which was the reason for the several corresponding texts which were cited.
 
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Jennifer

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This is the point of this thread, to even test those.

I was asking questions of farouk's 'dispy' theology based upon a scriptural foundation. It was to test the theology farouk put forward, and yet farouk did not answer those questions, which to me, shows a lack of willingness to delve into what farouk believes, and instead desires to simply promote what farouk believes, which is not the point of this thread. The Holy Spirit leads us into all truth (Psalms 25:5; John 16:13), and the Bible states:

Joh_17:17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.


True, and yet God speaks saying:

Deu_29:29 The secret things belong unto the LORD our God: but those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children for ever, that we may do all the words of this law.
Yes why? He reveals them to his children? That's why I said ask God.
 

Jennifer

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Yes they can, and I never said they couldn't. What I did say was that is no foundation to base whether the belief is true. Experience is not the foundation by which to test. Experiences can be erroneous, such as drug-induced experiences, or lack of oxygen experiences, or physical damage experiences and so on. All experience, is to be tested by the scripture, which was the reason for the several corresponding texts which were cited.
Well what does that have to do with the Bible? That has nothing to do with anything but people living in the flesh sinning against God and his word. If people thought more Godly and accepted the holy spirit there would be no drug induced diseases etc. but I guess some people also have beliefs in thier beliefs that they can go so far into such expeirences thinking they can control the world ...
 

ReChoired

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And don't cherry pick scriptures and scatter them in your responses...
That is an accusation, which is unfounded evidentially. I was specific, contextually, with my responses and the texts cited therein. Each of the scriptures cited previously, demonstrate, contextually, that scripture is the source by which to test, such as Isaiah 8:20, along with the others.
 

Jennifer

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That is an accusation, which is unfounded evidentially. I was specific, contextually, with my responses and the texts cited therein. Each of the scriptures cited previously, demonstrate, contextually, that scripture is the source by which to test, such as Isaiah 8:20, along with the others.
No it's not if it confuses me.
 

Jennifer

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That is an accusation, which is unfounded evidentially. I was specific, contextually, with my responses and the texts cited therein. Each of the scriptures cited previously, demonstrate, contextually, that scripture is the source by which to test, such as Isaiah 8:20, along with the others.
And obviously you are well educated and know more then I do noticing your big professional doctorated vocabulary words... I'm sorry but I'm not that well informed however your language speaks as one of a profession of some sort...which makes me think I am probably understanding...
 
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ReChoired

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Well what does that have to do with the Bible? T...
Peter, had an 'experience' and even saw with his own 'eyes' and heard with his own ears, but what he states is, that the word of God is more sure than his own eyes and his own ears or experience (even though what he saw and experienced was true):

2Pe 1:16 For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.
2Pe 1:17 For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
2Pe 1:18 And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount.
2Pe_1:19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:

Another example, is the council in Acts 15. It begins with experiences (Peter, Paul & Barnabas), but is tested by scripture (James citing Amos).
 

Jennifer

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Peter, had an 'experience' and even saw with his own 'eyes' and heard with his own ears, but what he states is, that the word of God is more sure than his own eyes and his own ears or experience (even though what he saw and experienced was true):

2Pe 1:16 For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.
2Pe 1:17 For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
2Pe 1:18 And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount.
2Pe_1:19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:

Another example, is the council in Acts 15. It begins with experiences (Peter, Paul & Barnabas), but is tested by scripture (James citing Amos).
Ok what fables..I have to go
 

ReChoired

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Incorrect beliefs once held now ditched.... ...
5. The Son of God is as old(sic) as the Father.
6. Sunday is the Lord's day. ...
Interested in discussing these two, would you?

As for point 5, you are saying that the Person of the Son is not eternal, but came into existence at some point in eternity past? If so, would you provide 3 texts that are your primary texts that you draw this conclusion from? I am most curious, as I do not see this taught in scripture. Wouldn't that automatically mean that the Person of the Father, was not always 'Father' but became such the moment of the coming into existence of the Son (if that is what you mean)?

As for point 6, what day is the "Lord's day", and would you mind if we look at scripture to see what it says on it?
 

Episkopos

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This thread is about beliefs ABOUT things which is superficial in nature...even if those beliefs are correct, they do nothing in the way of pleasing God neither do they give us the power to do those things which please God. They are in the realm of the human intellect.

So are we just trying to please ourselves with our studies? Can any satisfaction be derived by this pursuit?
 

ReChoired

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This thread is about beliefs ABOUT things which is superficial in nature...even if those beliefs are correct, they do nothing in the way of pleasing God neither do they give us the power to do those things which please God. They are in the realm of the human intellect.

So are we just trying to please ourselves with our studies? Can any satisfaction be derived by this pursuit?
Power to 'do things' comes from God (even Christ at Calvary; Romans 5:6; Revelation 12:10), by His Holy Spirit, through living faith:

Zec_4:6 Then he answered and spake unto me, saying, This is the word of the LORD unto Zerubbabel, saying, Not by might, nor by power, but by my spirit, saith the LORD of hosts.

Act_5:32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Heb_11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

Yet, that 'faith' must be 'in' something, such as 'the word of God', which was addressed in this thread.

Rom 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

The word of God speaks of the second coming of Jesus, and because God's word states this in prophecy, as Noah received prophecy, it brought him to act upon his belief, correctly.
 

Episkopos

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Power to 'do things' comes from God (even Christ at Calvary; Roman 5:6; Revelation 12:10), by His Holy Spirit, through living faith:

Zec_4:6 Then he answered and spake unto me, saying, This is the word of the LORD unto Zerubbabel, saying, Not by might, nor by power, but by my spirit, saith the LORD of hosts.

Act_5:32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Heb_11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

Yet, that 'faith' must be 'in' something, such as 'the word of God', which was addressed in this thread.

Rom 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

The word of God speaks of the second coming of Jesus, and because God's word states this in prophecy, as Noah received prophecy, it brought him to act upon his belief, correctly.


How are you not confusing faith...the spark of the divine....with a human take on things we call "beliefs"? Even religious beliefs...that are akin to superstitions.

No amount of beliefs can do anything but slant our preferences in the religious dogmatic supermarket of possibilities. And we are not saved by our beliefs as there is no questionnaire to get into the kingdom.

Faith comes by hearing directly from God...in the Spirit...by a divine spark...the mystery of godliness. To boil this down to doctrinal positions is to miss the mark entirely. Anything that the human mind can do in it's own power...it WILL do. :)
 
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ReChoired

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... And we are not saved by our beliefs as there is no questionnaire to get into the kingdom....
Joh_1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

Joh_6:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

Joh_7:39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

So, do we have to believe in the right Jesus Christ, or just any ol' "Christ"?

Mat_24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
Mar_13:22 For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.

So, does it matter ('kingdom'-wise) what we believe about "Christ", and ought we to have it correct by Biblical standard?
 
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Episkopos

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Joh_1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

Joh_6:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

Joh_7:39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

So, do we have to believe in the right Jesus Christ, or just any ol' "Christ"?

Mat_24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
Mar_13:22 For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.

So, does it matter ('kingdom'-wise) what we believe about "Christ", and ought we to have it correct by Biblical standard?


Does a person have to believe in gravity in order to fall by it's power? Does that person need to know the word for gravity...as in getting the nomenclature right in order to fall correctly?

It is a question of discerning the spiritual from the religious...which in our day few seem able to do.
 
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