The Book Of Acts clearly says that Simon believed and was baptized. But verse 15 says neither he nor any of the others received the Holy Spirit at that time (Verse 16). Even after the others received the Holy Spirit, there’s no indication that Simon did. He was more interested in receiving the power to show off and draw attention to Himself , than he was in receiving the Spirit into his heart to be Saved..... His actions and Peter’s seeing his bitterness and captivity to sin ( verse 20) demonstrate that his belief was intellectual, not spiritual, and therefore not sufficient for salvation. Even his request that Peter pray for him was not out of a spirit of repentance, but an attempt to avoid the punishment Peter had pronounced.
You Probably Believe This Lie
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The Book Of Acts clearly says that Simon believed and was baptized. But verse 15 says neither he nor any of the others received the Holy Spirit at that time (Verse 16). Even after the others received the Holy Spirit, there’s no indication that Simon did. He was more interested in receiving the power to show off and draw attention to Himself , than he was in receiving the Spirit into his heart to be Saved..... His actions and Peter’s seeing his bitterness and captivity to sin ( verse 20) demonstrate that his belief was intellectual, not spiritual, and therefore not sufficient for salvation. Even his request that Peter pray for him was not out of a spirit of repentance, but an attempt to avoid the punishment Peter had pronounced.
Then, using himself as an example to make the point of his illustration, he continues: “I pommel my body and subdue it, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified.”(1Timothy 6:19; 1Corinthians 9:24-27)
This “ disqualification” refers to being disqualified from preaching by not living up to the things he was preaching others to do ....it would make him a hypocrite......NOT somebody that had lost their Salvation—- an impossibility for Any Believer Of The Gospel That he preached.....Nobody knew or appreciated that Truth more than Paul did......” Believers have Peace with God and are “Sealed to the Day Of Redemption”......
This “ disqualification” refers to being disqualified from preaching by not living up to the things he was preaching others to do ....it would make him a hypocrite......NOT somebody that had lost their Salvation—- an impossibility for Any Believer Of The Gospel That he preached.....Nobody knew or appreciated that Truth more than Paul did......” Believers have Peace with God and are “Sealed to the Day Of Redemption”......
You can not lose your salvation after you have been born again by being baptized in the name of the father son and holy spirit. You may go astray also back slide and you will not lose your salvation. All you can do is do your best to follow Jesus. Some people are not strong enough to hang on.. From that it is our job to bring them back to their senses. You may fail trying but keep trying. We keep trying cause Jesus will never give up on us. But we will be judged in the end with or without our salvation
Is there a choice to walk away from God, by my free-will decision? (Hebrews 3:12-15).
But what is the lie that causes a person to lose salvation?
Some could say that believe that Jesus Christ has already came back is a lie and a falsehood - and can cause a person to lose faith? That is plausible but with the evidences in the Bible, Jesus was promised to come with-in a generation (Matthew 24:34) to lose faith over something like this, seems a little silly. People would though?
I guess they could - as because of "If Jesus Christ has already came back" now what? The now what is to continue to love God and love others (Matthew 22:36-40), knowing one day you will die, and be raised again to new life by believing in the Gospel of Christ (1 Corinthians 2:3-6). Moving from this realm to a heavenly realm (Hebrews 12:22-24), much better than here.
We are after all exiles and strangers on the earth (Hebrews 11:13).
The only choice seems to be walk away, or to be confident (Hebrews 10:35-36) in your faith towards God and trust him to help you by the spirit which we ask him (Luke 11:13).
But what is the lie that causes a person to lose salvation?
Some could say that believe that Jesus Christ has already came back is a lie and a falsehood - and can cause a person to lose faith? That is plausible but with the evidences in the Bible, Jesus was promised to come with-in a generation (Matthew 24:34) to lose faith over something like this, seems a little silly. People would though?
I guess they could - as because of "If Jesus Christ has already came back" now what? The now what is to continue to love God and love others (Matthew 22:36-40), knowing one day you will die, and be raised again to new life by believing in the Gospel of Christ (1 Corinthians 2:3-6). Moving from this realm to a heavenly realm (Hebrews 12:22-24), much better than here.
We are after all exiles and strangers on the earth (Hebrews 11:13).
The only choice seems to be walk away, or to be confident (Hebrews 10:35-36) in your faith towards God and trust him to help you by the spirit which we ask him (Luke 11:13).
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God will not save anybody that is “trying” to be Saved—- he will Save anybody That is “ Trusting” to be Saved....
Ronald David Bruno
Well-Known Member
You also have to imagine that God makes mistakes or just changes His mind, giving you a gift of faith/Salvation and then taking it back when you somehow fail to KEEP THE LAW, read the fine print of the contract that voids everything.
You also have to believe that JESUS would cleanse your soul, forgive your sins, enter into a relationship with you, send you the Holy Spirit to take up residence inside you, knowing all along that He will be soon vacating the premises, reneging on His seal. NO! If we are sealed, it is a done deal.
Those who reject OSAS do not have certainty of their faith if they think they can lose it. This is what faith is, a sureness, that God HAS saved us. Jesus said believe in Me and you will be saved. He didn't say "if you earn or merit favor ... don't sin too much ... or live a perfect life, I'll judge you later and we'll see". No one would be able to keep the LAW. The Jews failed, they were the test case for humanity.
Rich R
Well-Known Member
Things changed after Jesus died, arose, and ascended. Jesus' ministry was to Israel only. When a Canaanite woman asked for healing Jesus told her he was there only for Israel. Of course she was persistant in her request and he later relented and healed her (Matt 15:22-28). When Jesus sent out the 12 apostles he told them to go only to Israel, avoiding the Gentiles. Ephesians speak about this time period:
Eph 2:12,
That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
Gentiles had no hope of salvation until after the day of Pentecost. Acts 10 records the first Gentiles to partake of God's grace. It created quite a stir among the early church leaders. Apparently, the Jews were no longer God's only chosen people as they were in the OT., including the Gospels. Technically, the Gospels are still OT. It was man, not God, who put "The New Testament" in bold red letters in from of Matthew. They would fit much better in front of Acts.In addition, when Jesus was here the law was still in effect. The law didn't end until the Pentecost when grace, not law, became the deciding factor in salvation.
The bottom line is that everything Jesus said in the Gospels was meant for Israel during the age of law. With the revelation God gave to Paul and the others who wrote AFTER the day of Pentecost, we are now saved by grace.
We are born again of Incorruptible seed (1 Peter 1:23). There is no indication in the Epistles that the incorruptible seed can become corruptible. You have your earthy father's seed in you and that makes you his son no matter what you do with your life. That seed is corruptible but even it can't be lost. Once a son, always a son.
We are God's workmanship, having been created in Christ Jesus, (Eph 2:10). We are not our own workmanship. I'd be hesitant to think I can dis-annul that which God created.
It's important to know to whom God is speaking (Jew, Gentile, or Church of God, 1 Cor 10:32) and when He speaks. Again, things changed when Jesus sacrificed himself on the cross. Read the first few verses of Paul's letters and you will notice they are written to the church. It's important to not get your mail mixed up with your neighbor's mail.
Is this a license to sin? No! The more a son or daughter of God understands His grace, the less we will want to disobey Him. Our behavior will be governed by our own sincere desire to please Him, not a fear of spending eternity suffering in hell. Of course, we often fall short, but God understands our flesh and grace is the covering for those sins. Read Romans 7 to see the battle between our flesh and spirit. The new birth has no effect on the flesh. It's as rotten as it was before salvation.
You might give Galatians chapter 3 a read also.
Gal 3:1-3,
1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
This may go against long held belilef, but there it is in simple to understand English.
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Behold
Well-Known Member
If a born again person believes they can lose their Salvation.........its usually based on them not actually understanding Salvation, at all.
They don't realize that Jesus is their Salvation, and that "not of yourselves". "it is the GIFT of God".
Salvation is a gift from God. that Jesus died to offer..... that is not related to any type of trying to be good, or trying to keep commandments, nor is it based on WATER.
Those who do not understand Salvation, or who are deceived by their CULT, will teach Salvation as "water and works", or just "works". Some type of self effort to EARN it.
Often a person who has "fallen from Grace" ... once understood Salvation and were later deceived out of the truth.
If you want to know if you are deceived about Salvation, simply find out if you believe that Jesus Keeps you saved, or if you do.
If you answer.....>"Jesus started it, but now its all on me"....then you are deceived, fallen from Grace, and if you teach your deception, you are this... Galatians 1:8
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As you know, I have been teaching this same thing for years....some people had better pray that “ Falling From Grace “ and being “ Severed from Christ “ ( Yeah, that’s in there too! ) means living out a beggarly Christian Walk as opposed to being Damned Forever ...It’s seems like the jury may still be out on that one....I have seen convincing cases made for both sides of that debate....
For me, it is a moot point ......that is the reality of it when you simply Believe the song you have sung like a hypocrite for many, many years.....the Song? It’s called “ Nothing But The Blood”.....If you are a Self- Righteous Legalist , you can at least do * ONE* thing that will please God—-Rip That Great Song out of your Hymnal.....
The Corinthians had some serious problems, therefore Christ chastised them so they would not perish along with the world. He did this by judging their bad behavior, so things happened to them that otherwise would not have occurred. But this was for their good.
1 Corinthians 11
27 Therefore whoever eats this bread or drinks this cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of the body and [f]blood of the Lord. 28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of the bread and drink of the cup. 29 For he who eats and drinks [g]in an unworthy manner eats and drinks judgment to himself, not discerning the [h]Lord’s body. 30 For this reason many are weak and sick among you, and many [i]sleep. 31 For if we would judge ourselves, we would not be judged. 32 But when we are judged, we are chastened by the Lord, that we may not be condemned with the world.
And the Spirit makes intercession for the saints according to the will of God.
Romans 8
27 Now He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He makes intercession for the saints according to the will of God.
28 And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose. 29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.
And God's will is this here,
John 6
38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me.
39 This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day.
40 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”
So yes, once God has made us born of God, He has saved us from everything including ourselves, as we then belong to Him. We are not our own, we were bought at a great price.
1 Corinthians 6
19 Or do you not know that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and you are not your own? 20 For you were bought at a price; therefore glorify God in your body [a]and in your spirit, which are God’s.
1 Corinthians 11
27 Therefore whoever eats this bread or drinks this cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of the body and [f]blood of the Lord. 28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of the bread and drink of the cup. 29 For he who eats and drinks [g]in an unworthy manner eats and drinks judgment to himself, not discerning the [h]Lord’s body. 30 For this reason many are weak and sick among you, and many [i]sleep. 31 For if we would judge ourselves, we would not be judged. 32 But when we are judged, we are chastened by the Lord, that we may not be condemned with the world.
And the Spirit makes intercession for the saints according to the will of God.
Romans 8
27 Now He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He makes intercession for the saints according to the will of God.
28 And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose. 29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.
And God's will is this here,
John 6
38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me.
39 This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day.
40 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”
So yes, once God has made us born of God, He has saved us from everything including ourselves, as we then belong to Him. We are not our own, we were bought at a great price.
1 Corinthians 6
19 Or do you not know that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and you are not your own? 20 For you were bought at a price; therefore glorify God in your body [a]and in your spirit, which are God’s.
No Simon was NOT saved and the words of Peter to him make that crystal clear. Yes, he may have been baptized, but that did not save him.
What is the mark of salvation?
How does one recognize the mark in others?
Professing and confessing is just lip service but it doesn't make it fact.
Baptism is just getting wet.
Since I believe in free-will as seen even in heaven, then we choose to serve to the end of this life as we know it or we loose faith for whatever reason and decide we no longer desire God's way.
He never takes back the gift that was offered in love. We as mere nothings, unstable in all our ways can reject, forfeit by our lack of holy living, toss aside righteousness for our fleshly desires, or just decide.... nope not what I want after using.
How does one recognize the mark in others?
Professing and confessing is just lip service but it doesn't make it fact.
Baptism is just getting wet.
Since I believe in free-will as seen even in heaven, then we choose to serve to the end of this life as we know it or we loose faith for whatever reason and decide we no longer desire God's way.
He never takes back the gift that was offered in love. We as mere nothings, unstable in all our ways can reject, forfeit by our lack of holy living, toss aside righteousness for our fleshly desires, or just decide.... nope not what I want after using.
When you're baptized you also receive the gift of the Holy Ghost per Acts 2:38, so he being baptized had also received the Holy Ghost. Receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost doesn't mean one of the miraculous gifts of the Spirit, but simply the indwelling of the Spirit itself. The gifts were manifested by the laying on of the apostle's hands. He was saved: the miraculous manifestation of one of the gifts has nothing whatsoever to do with salvation.
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
The point does not hinge on earning ones salvation but verses like Hebrews 10:26 if we deliberately continue sinning after we have received knowledge of the truth, there is no longer any sacrifice that will cover these sins. If OSAS were true, such verses would not exist.
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
atpollard
Well-Known Member
If it were possible for people to disqualify themselves from obtaining the salvation purchased with Christ's blood, we all surely would (just as Adam and Eve so easily lost humanity's innocence). Thus if anyone is saved, it is 100% of God to both GIVE the gift [Ephesians 2:8-9] and to SUSTAIN the Child [Philippians 2:13] from within.
Here is the real truth,
Nevertheless the solid foundation of God stands, having this seal: “The Lord knows those who are His,” and, “Let everyone who names the name of [g]Christ depart from iniquity.”
God knows His own and they know Him, and His own follow Christ. But the false brethren just have profane babblings, and being deceived, think they belong to Christ, but they do not.
John 10:14
I am the good shepherd; and I know My sheep, and am known by My own.
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2 Timothy 2
15 Be diligent to present yourself approved to God, a worker who does not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. 16 But shun profane and [e]idle babblings, for they will [f]increase to more ungodliness. 17 And their message will spread like cancer. Hymenaeus and Philetus are of this sort, 18 who have strayed concerning the truth, saying that the resurrection is already past; and they overthrow the faith of some. 19 Nevertheless the solid foundation of God stands, having this seal: “The Lord knows those who are His,” and, “Let everyone who names the name of [g]Christ depart from iniquity.”
20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and silver, but also of wood and clay, some for honor and some for dishonor. 21 Therefore if anyone cleanses himself from the latter, he will be a vessel for honor, [h]sanctified and useful for the Master, prepared for every good work. 22 Flee also youthful lusts; but pursue righteousness, faith, love, peace with those who call on the Lord out of a pure heart. 23 But avoid foolish and ignorant disputes, knowing that they generate strife. 24 And a servant of the Lord must not quarrel but be gentle to all, able to teach, patient, 25 in humility correcting those who are in opposition, if God perhaps will grant them repentance, so that they may know the truth, 26 and that they may come to their senses and escape the snare of the devil, having been taken captive by him to do his will.
Did the famous Evangelist, Oliver Greene receive the Holy Spirit when he got baptized—- he admitted AFTER he got Saved that the only reason that “he” got baptized was because he thought that it would allow him to “ Get Lucky” with some religious girl he lusted after......getting dunked in water means Nothing , in and of itself .....
If you will take the time to read PAST Acts 2:38 , you will see that the Holy Spirit That Saves a Soul can be o gained by simply Believing.....Paul proved it and even Peter admitted that it was true.....by the END of the Transitional Book Of Acts, it is obvious that people were getting the Holy Spirit, (evidenced by speaking in tongues) without having first been baptized....
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
Might wanna let the pope and this all inclusive movment know that . They think one has the SPIRIT
even if they DONT believe in JESUS .
even if they DONT believe in JESUS .
