Once Saved Always Saved

[Ferris Bueller]

The words believe/faith are used interchangeably.

They are, and it can get kind of confusing sometimes. Context has to be paid attention to. But, basically, faith is a thing. It's the proof in one's heart that tells them the gospel is true. Believing is something you do. It's the trusting you do in response to the proof of the gospel presented to you in your heart by the Holy Spirit.

If trusting/believing comes from us, why do we need to exercise it?

Because that's how the gospel is applied to a person—through their trust in it.

 

[Grailhunter]

This has nothing to do with why I myself understand rebirth to be forever.

It's simple from examining the Bible itself, and determining to believe what it says.

Much love!

Rebirth is forever and ever!
Whether you are in heaven or in hell.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

True, the demons do not have a "childlike belief" as a believer demonstrates, however; in the sense concerning the word "believe" both words mean the same.

That's why context is important and has to be taken into consideration.

 

[Tong2020]

Exceedingly Great and Precious Promises!!!

Much love!

I have to say that they are a done deed.

Tong
R2937

 

[marks]

Because that is all Ferris and I are saying and are bashed relentlessly for it.

I'm not saying anything against living up to your responsibilities. But we do have different ideas of what those are.

Much love!

 

[marks]

That would imply that we were in a sense dead and were made alive, and that together with Christ.

Plainly stated . . .

Ephesians 2:1-7 KJV
1) And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
2) Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
3) Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
4) But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
5) Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
6) And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
7) That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

Much love!

 

[Grailhunter]

Scriptures said He was made alive. If you can’t understand that or you just like to use another term? Scriptures said, He was put to death, but He was made alive.

The resurrection is a very significant event...Are we going to understand how He came back and exactly what His body was? NO.
Christ resurrected...
He told Mary Magdalene to proclaim that event and she went and found the Apostles that were hiding...that had abandoned Christ, that He had risen...And the did not believe her. There lack of faith so deep that when he presented Himself before them, that their first thought was that He was a ghost....not believing in the resurrection.

 

[Grailhunter]

Scriptures said He was made alive. If you can’t understand that or you just like to use another term? Scriptures said, He was put to death, but He was made alive.



So?


If that is your view, then there is nothing to discuss with you about that.

And that is just one on the list I posted. I wonder how many more in that list you have the same view.

Tong
R2936

What I said was true.

 

[marks]

You states one could commit a sin and lose salvation. Basically in saying so you are placing people under law. The law required perfection. No one is perfect. Hence NO ONE earns salvation.

The problem with inserting different sins and saying these sins disqualify you is that all sin no matter how small that sin is would disqualify us. Again, As james said, If we just STUMBLE in one sin, we are guilty.

"Parsing sins", I call it.

Man's opinion that one sin is somehow OK while another is not. Or that a single sin is OK, but too many and you're out! That's not what the Bible tells us. That's just man's opinion, and has no place in Christian doctrine. Sin separates man from God. But Romans tells us that in Christ, NOTHING will separate us from God.

Much love!

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
I once asked Ferris why he keep believing. I would like to ask that question to you as well.

The same reason to keep believing anything - Evidence. See Evidence To Be Seen.


Oh, put God to the test and see how kind he is! See for yourself the way his mercies shower down on all who trust in him.
Psalm 34:8

And in the case of keeping believing in Jesus Christ? What evidence?

Tong
R2938

 

[marks]

Yes alive and dead. Religious symbology ... theological terms...the exactness of which, can we comprehend?

No, real communication of real meaning. Words have meaning. Resurrection is coming back alive from among the dead.

Romans 6:12-13 KJV
12) Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
13) Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.

We can do this, yield ourselve unto God, as those alive from the dead, because that's what we are, alive from among the dead.

And you, who were dead in trespasses and sins, hath He quickened . . . Made alive . . .

Much love!

 

[marks]

I trust no further analysis is necessary but to show how Tong and marks twist what Ferris has said. Such Appeals to Strawman shows the weakness of your position.

He uses tautalogies. Empty, meaningless statements. Self evident sayings disguised to sound erudite.

"Forgiveness is absolute! Except when it's not!".

3. Forgiveness of sin is absolute, as long as the gospel message remains in your heart. Guilt is reinstated if/when the believer goes back to unbelief. Because he no longer has the ministry of Christ to prevent sin guilt from exposing him to the wrath of the coming judgment.

Let the reader decide.

Much love!

 

[marks]

The analogy I use is that we are all drowning. Jesus is the Savior and throws us a life preserver and we can have total trust and faith in him always providing this means of our survival. However, the burden is always on us to actually receive the life preserver. And it is not merely the initial holding on to the life preserver that matters. What matters is constantly holding onto the gift of salvation. Otherwise, we risk our survival with every release of the gift, e.g., turning our back on him.

My analogy would be that Jesus has removed us from the ocean wherein we were drowning.

Or more to the point, perhaps, has turned us from a fish into a bird.

Much love!

 

[Grailhunter]

"Parsing sins", I call it.

Man's opinion that one sin is somehow OK while another is not. Or that a single sin is OK, but too many and you're out! That's not what the Bible tells us. That's just man's opinion, and has no place in Christian doctrine. Sin separates man from God. But Romans tells us that in Christ, NOTHING will separate us from God.

Much love!

If you are looking for gage for sin, you miss the point of Christianity completely. The physical examples that Christ and the Apostles set for us was not sin and sin some more, expecting to go to heaven.

The Bibles warns us about sins and the punishments for sins...not the rewards of sins.

There is no gage....Bible hints of no gage.

Simply if you want to go to heaven...Act 2:38 and be good...not Act 2:38 and do whatever you want.

Grace is not an insurance policy for sin....nor does describe Grace in that manner. In fact it says What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

 

[marks]

Scriptures said He was made alive. If you can’t understand that or you just like to use another term? Scriptures said, He was put to death, but He was made alive.



So?


If that is your view, then there is nothing to discuss with you about that.

And that is just one on the list I posted. I wonder how many more in that list you have the same view.

Tong
R2936

Its important to remember God did not write Scripture as just a collection of loose jargon. Every word is pregnant with meaning!

Much love!

 

[Grailhunter]

No, real communication of real meaning. Words have meaning. Resurrection is coming back alive from among the dead.

Romans 6:12-13 KJV
12) Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
13) Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.

We can do this, yield ourselve unto God, as those alive from the dead, because that's what we are, alive from among the dead.

And you, who were dead in trespasses and sins, hath He quickened . . . Made alive . . .

Much love!

Ok

 

[marks]

The words believe/faith are used interchangeably. If trusting/believing comes from us, why do we need to exercise it?

Believe and faith are verb and noun forms of the same word. There is no difference in the idea being expresses. I believe you, I have belief in you, or, I have faith in you. Both come from the same Greek root.

To trust, and to have trust. Like that.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Rebirth is forever and ever!
Whether you are in heaven or in hell.

What??

 

[marks]

That's why context is important and has to be taken into consideration.

Demons believe, but are not saved. You maintain that you must continue to believe to remain saved, yet belief doesn't save you.

Jesus saves you. If you believe in Him, you can be reborn, and receive new life, His life, not just your own life.

Belief doesn't save you, Jesus saves you. He does this by immersing you into Himself to share in all He has, INCLUDING His faith, the faith of Christ.

So you graduate. From your initial belief in the truth of the Gospel, to the faith of Christ in you.

Your believing after that is one of two things.

Either your believing is the manifestation of Jesus Christ in you, and your believing is the faith of Christ being revealed through you.

OR,

Your believing is your own doing, something you yourself do, apart from Christ, and, well, we all know how inconsistent people are in their moods and thoughts from day to day.

This is the significance of the "faith of Jesus Christ". It's not yours, it's His. We are inconsistent, but Jesus Christ, the same yesterday, today, forever!

He doesn't change.

Much love!

 

[Grailhunter]

What??

Just what I said....you think you will unconscienced in hell?
Rebirth is a spiritual rebirth...
John 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

I know, I quote the Bible you twist the meaning or explain it away....Try that with Christ on Judgment Day.