Once Saved Always Saved

[Corlove13]

Are you talking about and referring to Hebrews 10:26? If so, I think the key there is to understand what scriptures meant by the phrase “willfully sin”. Also, that passage must be taken in the context of what the write had been saying concerning falling away.


You have a lot there going in your mind. I suggest you take one issue at a time.

Read that part of Hebrews 6:4-6 carefully. I want you to see it for yourself what truth it saying concerning those referred to in v.4-5.

Also, in your reading who do you say are referred to in v.4-5?

Tong
R2967

Hi, sound like my psychiatrist...smile
Well in that passage it sounds like they are people who reject the one that saves them.

Who they could be.....I considered false prophets because how they say, didnt we cast out demons in your name....and it says go away you workers of iniquity [paraphrasing] I never knew you.

That doesn't mean they didn't know Him.
But it can give reason to look into the diff between the Spirit of Christ and Spirit of God

But I have no absolute clue in who they are

 

[Corlove13]

Yes...

Do not quench the Spirit. 1 Thessalonians 5:19​

And in regard to the activity of the workings of the Spirit.....

One day Jesus was teaching, and the Pharisees and teachers of the law were sitting there. People had come from Jerusalem and from every village of Galilee and Judea, and the power of the Lord was present for Him to heal the sick. Luke 5:17
​

The implication of this being, the power of the Spirit to heal is not always present. Remember the pool of Bethesda?

Very Very good point!.....for I just mentioned before this that I want to go into some more on the Diff between Spirit of Christ Spirit of God....and now also Holyghost power

 

[Corlove13]

When you purposely stop believing and God closes the door for you to come back from that decision to not believe anymore. Some say that's not possible to happen in the real believer. Others say it is possible. The important thing is to heed the exhortation of scripture to keep believing to the very end. That's what matters. Osas arguments do not matter.

So Jesus can stop being a high priest forever?

 

[Corlove13]

1 Peter 3:18 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit,

Romans 8:11 But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.

Acts 2:32
This Jesus God has raised up, of which we are all witnesses.

<<<The question is what Spirit was in Christ that raised Him from the dead.>>>

God, the Holy Spirit.

<<<So eternal life seems to have to be a continual present possession?>>>

What is to you eternal life?


After you read and listened from Dallas Willard (I don’t know this one), did you read and listened to God in scriptures?

I am interested in what you read from scriptures.

Tong
R2968

Well we all learn from some place...otherwise we would not be here...I figure.

The def of Eternal life [EL] in the Bible is to know God and Jesus Christ who He has sent..dont quote me

So I said ungoing because...as any relationship Women need to do what they start out doing. Smile.

So eternal life is HOW WE RELATE TO GOD DOING WHAT IS PLEASING TO HIM..WALKING IN THE PATH OF RIGHTEOUSNESS ...IN MY OPINION

 

[Tong2020]

Hi,
What do you think "through Him" means?

Good question.

Acts 13:39 and by Him everyone who believes is justified from all things from which you could not be justified by the law of Moses. NKJV

Acts 13:39 Through him everyone who believes is set free from every sin, a justification you were not able to obtain under the law of Moses. NIV

For me, “through Him” means or points to a lot of things about Jesus. I take it to denote what Jesus said of Himself, that is, “I am the way, the truth, and the life”. It declares Jesus as the Word of God.

Tong
R2969

 

[Ferris Bueller]

So Jesus can stop being a high priest forever?

No. The very fact that he won't stop being a High Priest is the reason we are given for us to continue to believe in God.

Therefore, since we have a great high priest who has ascended into heaven, f Jesus the Son of God, let us hold firmly to the faith we profess. Hebrews 4:14​

 

[Corlove13]

Good question.

Acts 13:39 and by Him everyone who believes is justified from all things from which you could not be justified by the law of Moses. NKJV

Acts 13:39 Through him everyone who believes is set free from every sin, a justification you were not able to obtain under the law of Moses. NIV

For me, “through Him” means or points to a lot of things about Jesus. I take it to denote what Jesus said of Himself, that is, “I am the way, the truth, and the life”. It declares Jesus as the Word of God.

Tong
R2969

And by the way, everything was made by him, through Him and for Him....dont quote me..

 

[Ferris Bueller]

The def of Eternal life [EL] in the Bible is to know God and Jesus Christ who He has sent..dont quote me

John 17:3

 

[Ferris Bueller]

And by the way, everything was made by him, through Him and for Him....dont quote me..

Colossians 1:16

 

[Tong2020]

Didn't you read my post? I said, "the amount of time God allows a person to come back to faith after falling into unbelief depends on that person's particular circumstances." We don't pick anything. The fallen person should just be grateful that God is even giving them a chance to come back. I mean, if he's even giving them that chance.

But if one listens to God’s words in scriptures written in Hebrews 6:6, that if they (referred to in v.4-5) fall away, it is impossible to bring them back to repentance.

On the other hand you are saying something different and which is contrary to that. You also hold the view that the (true) Christian is given the chance to choose to reject Jesus Christ anytime or that it is possible for him to be brought to repentance towards unbelief.

Looking at your view, while you hold the view regarding him who fell away, that God allows an amount of time for him to come back and is determined by God, after which there is no coming back. However with regards him who does not fall away, God’s allowing of time for him to not fall away and after which he can no longer fall away is nowhere to be found in your view. Why? You don’t need to answer that. It’s rhetorical.

Tong
R2970

 

[Corlove13]

No. The very fact that he won't stop being a High Priest is the reason we are given for us to continue to believe in God.

Therefore, since we have a great high priest who has ascended into heaven, f Jesus the Son of God, let us hold firmly to the faith we profess. Hebrews 4:14​

I said that because you said this:
["When you purposely stop believing and God closes the door for you to come back from that decision to not believe anymore. Some say that's not possible to happen in the real believer. Others say it is possible. The important thing is to heed the exhortation of scripture to keep believing to the very end. That's what matters. Osas arguments do not matter."]
Hebrews 7:25
23And they truly were many priests, because they were not suffered to continue by reason of death: 24But this man, because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood. 25Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.


Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.

 

[Tong2020]

Ferris Bueller said: ↑
the amount of time God allows a person to come back to faith after falling into unbelief depends on that person's particular circumstances."

ok then what circumstances ? i need scripture

In all likelihood, there’s none. It was obviously his personal opinion. At least that’s how it comes to me.

Tong
R2971

 

[Taken]

Hi, good stuff...I have to read in the mornting....
So you may have answer my question...In my thought and I'm not sure....God is not a God of the dead but the living...so the only way to be raised is with "zoe" life...which is in His son?
To have it is to know...of a clear entrance before God.....and not to know it, Idk..it may be like barely escaping the flames of fire.

I don't "speak Greek". However in English, to answer your question.
Jesus IS: the Name God gave to "His Word";
* For the Express Purpose of WHEN:
Gods Word was to come into THIS World, in the Likeness as a "Jewish man", as a Son of the House of David and Seek the Lost Jews, and Offer Them a "WAY" to Become MADE Whole (Forgiven Flesh Body & soul, Restored (Saved) soul & Quickened (born again) spirit.)
* This Word of God, JESUS, came Humbled, yet was Fortold, He WOULD be called:
The Son of God.

* JESUS revealed; HE is:
The LIFE, The TRUTH, The WAY...
* Point is: JESUS' came to Earth, AS an Example of How men born "naturally" from an Earthly manKinds "seed", Can become MADE righteous before God, BY Gods SEED and KEPT by Gods Power. (Baptized with the Holy Spirit).
* The moment men "SAW" Jesus' water Baptism, Earthly men OBSERVED, the moment, JESUS'... Power came down to Him, From Heaven...And WHEN men could "understand", Gods Power came Down to Him, and He then could be called "The Son of God.

* Through Study we LEARN:
The Messiah was foretold, and Expected.
* When the Messiah was Revealed, He Appeared as an "ordinary" man, without Wealth, without a visible Kingdom, without Pomp, without VISIBLE Power or Position...
(Ie his Humbliness).
* Through Scriptural Knowledge we LEARN;
- Christ IS the SEED of God. (Gal 3:16)
- Christ IS the POWER of God. (1 Cor 1:24)
- Christ IS the WISDOM of God. (1 Cor 1:24)

* God Reveals to a man, Jesus IS the Christ.
(Matt 16:17)

We Learn through Scriptural KNOWLEDGE.
We Understand the KNOWLEDGE (according to Gods Understanding); By the Power of God Within us (which occurs WHEN a man is MADE WHOLE... Converted...Forgiven, Saved Born Again).

The Process of man is to Hear, continue Hearing, Believe, Heartful Confessed Belief.

The Response of God for Confession is to MAKE the man Forgiven and Whole and Keep the man IN Belief (Faith-FULL-ness) By the Supernatural Power of God.

As we REMAIN, "physically alive", We "supernaturally / spiritually" "OCCUPY JESUS' RISEN BODY"... until the DAY, Our own Body's are RISEN. On that day, Our own Body's are RISEN IN Glory (uncorrupted, Never again subject to corruption, or death).

Men don't "sort of" escape the "hell fire".
Souls "departed" out of their body's from the beginning, "that knew of God and Rejected Him", are occupying Hell. They are not IN fire, they are IN Agnony because of the Heat and Stench and Darkness and Separations from God and Gods beautiful Earth surface.
* Hell Fire, is the consequence, AFTER Judgement, After LIFE out of their SOUL, retrurns to God, and both body and soul VOID of LIFE are destroyed. (Matt 10:28)


Glory to God,
Taken

 

[amigo de christo]

Some may have the resurrection life of Christ in them in salvation but not have the 'zoe' quality of that life in their daily living. We call them the 'frozen chosen'. They have the Spirit within them in salvation but they enjoy zero benefits of that life in them. The Spirit is suppressed in them, for whatever reason, and so they do not enjoy the abundance of the overflow of the Spirit in their lives. You have to obey the Spirit to have the abundance of the Spirit.

10If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commands and remain in his love. 11I have told you this so that my joy may be in you and that your joy may be complete. John 15:10-11

21Whoever has my commands and keeps them is the one who loves me. The one who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love them and show myself to them.” John 14:21​

NOPE . IF our fruits do not bear witness , THEN WE HAVE NOT the WITNESS WITHIN US .
There simply is no middle ground . Either we are HIS or we are not . And if one IS HIS and does err , brethren do all
with DIRE UPMOST and UPMOST URGENCY with DIRE SPEED to correct one that errs .
FOR SIN is a deadly monster , and SIN will harden and is what does harden the heart .
This ol man never paints with gray . ITS either black as in sin and error , OR IS WHITE as in truth and righteousness .
YEAH , i am one hated man . BUT i love all , for though i do expose error , I DO SO FOR THE SAKE of not only the one in error
but the entire flock .

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
Are you talking about and referring to Hebrews 10:26? If so, I think the key there is to understand what scriptures meant by the phrase “willfully sin”. Also, that passage must be taken in the context of what the write had been saying concerning falling away.


You have a lot there going in your mind. I suggest you take one issue at a time.

Read that part of Hebrews 6:4-6 carefully. I want you to see it for yourself what truth it saying concerning those referred to in v.4-5.

Also, in your reading who do you say are referred to in v.4-5?

Hi, sound like my psychiatrist...smile
Well in that passage it sounds like they are people who reject the one that saves them.

Who they could be.....I considered false prophets because how they say, didnt we cast out demons in your name....and it says go away you workers of iniquity [paraphrasing] I never knew you.

That doesn't mean they didn't know Him.
But it can give reason to look into the diff between the Spirit of Christ and Spirit of God

But I have no absolute clue in who they are

Oh you have a psychiatrist?

What passage are you referring to? Hebrews 10:26 or 6:4-6? Perhaps you’d be clear in your next post.

If you’ve read Hebrews 6:4-6 carefully, may I know what you saw there or what you learned there?

Tong
R2972

 

[Corlove13]

I don't "speak Greek". However in English, to answer your question.
Jesus IS: the Name God gave to "His Word";
* For the Express Purpose of WHEN:
Gods Word was to come into THIS World, in the Likeness as a "Jewish man", as a Son of the House of David and Seek the Lost Jews, and Offer Them a "WAY" to Become MADE Whole (Forgiven Flesh Body & soul, Restored (Saved) soul & Quickened (born again) spirit.)
* This Word of God, JESUS, came Humbled, yet was Fortold, He WOULD be called:
The Son of God.

* JESUS revealed; HE is:
The LIFE, The TRUTH, The WAY...
* Point is: JESUS' came to Earth, AS an Example of How men born "naturally" from an Earthly manKinds "seed", Can become MADE righteous before God, BY Gods SEED and KEPT by Gods Power. (Baptized with the Holy Spirit).
* The moment men "SAW" Jesus' water Baptism, Earthly men OBSERVED, the moment, JESUS'... Power came down to Him, From Heaven...And WHEN men could "understand", Gods Power came Down to Him, and He then could be called "The Son of God.

* Through Study we LEARN:
The Messiah was foretold, and Expected.
* When the Messiah was Revealed, He Appeared as an "ordinary" man, without Wealth, without a visible Kingdom, without Pomp, without VISIBLE Power or Position...
(Ie his Humbliness).
* Through Scriptural Knowledge we LEARN;
- Christ IS the SEED of God. (Gal 3:16)
- Christ IS the POWER of God. (1 Cor 1:24)
- Christ IS the WISDOM of God. (1 Cor 1:24)

* God Reveals to a man, Jesus IS the Christ.
(Matt 16:17)

We Learn through Scriptural KNOWLEDGE.
We Understand the KNOWLEDGE (according to Gods Understanding); By the Power of God Within us (which occurs WHEN a man is MADE WHOLE... Converted...Forgiven, Saved Born Again).

The Process of man is to Hear, continue Hearing, Believe, Heartful Confessed Belief.

The Response of God for Confession is to MAKE the man Forgiven and Whole and Keep the man IN Belief (Faith-FULL-ness) By the Supernatural Power of God.

As we REMAIN, "physically alive", We "supernaturally / spiritually" "OCCUPY JESUS' RISEN BODY"... until the DAY, Our own Body's are RISEN. On that day, Our own Body's are RISEN IN Glory (uncorrupted, Never again subject to corruption, or death).

Men don't "sort of" escape the "hell fire".
Souls "departed" out of their body's from the beginning, "that knew of God and Rejected Him", are occupying Hell. They are not IN fire, they are IN Agnony because of the Heat and Stench and Darkness and Separations from God and Gods beautiful Earth surface.
* Hell Fire, is the consequence, AFTER Judgement, After LIFE out of their SOUL, retrurns to God, and both body and soul VOID of LIFE are destroyed. (Matt 10:28)


Glory to God,
Taken

You sound like you got it down and you are one to seek council from...

 

[Corlove13]

Oh you have a psychiatrist?

What passage are you referring to? Hebrews 10:26 or 6:4-6? Perhaps you’d be clear in your next post.

If you’ve read Hebrews 6:4-6 carefully, may I know what you saw there or what you learned there?

Tong
R2972

Lol..

 

[Corlove13]

What passage are you referring to? Hebrews 10:26 or 6:4-6? Perhaps you’d be clear in your next post.

If you’ve read Hebrews 6:4-6 carefully, may I know what you saw there or what you learned there?

Tong
R2972

Hebrews 6....I was referring to

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.

Yep. And that's why we are exhorted to keep believing.....

Therefore, since we have a great high priest who has ascended into heaven, f Jesus the Son of God, let us hold firmly to the faith we profess. Hebrews 4:14​

 

[Ferris Bueller]

In all likelihood, there’s none. It was obviously his personal opinion. At least that’s how it comes to me.

Here was my answer to him that you apparently missed......

There's an element of ignorance in the Corinthians having fallen away to another gospel (1 Corinthians 15:34). And there's an element of not knowing God intimately, yet, in the case of the Galatians having fallen away to another gospel (Galatians 4:9). I see those as mitigating factors that keep Hebrews 10:26-31 from instantly going into effect. Now if they had just left because they wanted to and just flat out didn't want Jesus anymore because they loved their old lives more than their new lives in Christ that would be a different story.