Once Saved Always Saved

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amigo de christo

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A gospel that is different than the real one by which a person was originally saved. For example, the Galatians turned to another gospel (Galatians 1:6-9). A different gospel that included reliance on the works of the law for justification. And the Corinthians turned to another gospel (2 Corinthians 11:4) of an unrisen savior (1 Corinthians 15:11-17).
Or how about the biggest false gospel today . The all inclusive many path one . That is the lie that is leading all and will lead
all religions to unite as one right under the very Son of perdition . And its fast sucking up churches whole .
We better not heed it . Stick to the original gospel . That JESUS must be confessed by mouth and believed that GOD rose Him from the dead
TO be saved . Cause MISS all inclusive unity , aka the WHORE , is fibbing to many churches and religoins .
 
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marks

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Then it's obvious Jesus gives crappy believing to some people. Why can't he do a better job of 'believing' for some people?
This question?

You assume God gives "crappy believing"? And you want me to somehow explain how that is?

Complex questions are logical fallacies, and are therefore meaningless. If you were to not bother with logical fallacies, we could save time. A complex question is one which assumes something not proven.

Perhaps it could be profitable to examine why it is you think that some must have "crappy believing"?

Much love!
 

marks

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Scriptures say it is impossible for them to be brought back to repentance, if they fall away. And that runs contrary to what you think there.

Tong
R2963

This turns out to be one of many that one must change the meaning to make fit.

For myself, I let that become the opportunity to change what I think. Any time one comes to a place that says THIS, but you want to say it means THAT, it's time to start over, until everything is in harmony in exactly what it says.

Much love!
 

Tong2020

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Tong2020 said:
However with regards him who does not fall away, God’s allowing of time for him to not fall away and after which he can no longer fall away is nowhere to be found in your view. Why?
You never asked, lol. I believe that a Christian can mature to the point that there is no turning back for them. Actually, I think I may have made some kind of reference to this somewhere in our discussions in recent weeks.
In my reading true repentance and believing is not a matter of maturity. That the Christian reaches a point of no turning back or the impossibility to reject Jesus Christ isn’t taught in scriptures.

By the way, do you consider yourself to be a mature Christian?

Tong
R2973
 

Tong2020

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Here was my answer to him that you apparently missed......
Ferris Bueller said:
There's an element of ignorance in the Corinthians having fallen away to another gospel (1 Corinthians 15:34). And there's an element of not knowing God intimately, yet, in the case of the Galatians having fallen away to another gospel (Galatians 4:9). I see those as mitigating factors that keep Hebrews 10:26-31 from instantly going into effect. Now if they had just left because they wanted to and just flat out didn't want Jesus anymore because they loved their old lives more than their new lives in Christ that would be a different story.
Yes there are those elements you say there. However, those have nothing to do with the point that the true Christian, the sheep of Jesus who had been found by Him, and who have been saved by Him, would be kept by Him and lose him no more.

The thing is, there are nominal Christians and there are true Christians. There are false brethren and there are true brethren.

Tong
R2974
 

Tong2020

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Tong2020 said:
Set aside the Galatians for a while. I am asking if you consider yourself for example, do you think it possible for you, after falling away into Judaism for example, that it is possible that you can later choose to repent and believe again?
Almost forgot about this, lol. Hopefully now you can see that if you or I ever did such a thing God's patience with us in the matter would depend on why we did that. But in the end, there would come a time when no repentance is allowed if we did that and then refused God's attempts to get us to reconsider such a foolish decision to turn away from justification in Christ.
In my view, it depends whether you or I is a true Christian or just a nominal Christian. It depends whether we have the faith that comes from God or just have the faith that comes from and what is common to man.

Regarding the true Christian, read Hebrews 6:4-6.

Consider these thoughts. The child of God, born of the will of God, when he falls into a pit, will God not take him out from there? When he had lost his way, will God not find him and bring him back home to be with Him? Will God allow even one of them to burn in hell? That goes contrary to what He had done, even to the point of having to give His only begotten Son even to taste death, to save them. That after all that, only to lose them again?

In the past, God had given them prophets like Moses, to keep them. Now we know what happened. Does not the Christian see, that God in these last days, He sent His very own and one and only begotten Son to them, not only to find and save them, but to keep them and bring them home? That God sent His very own Son, who is full of grace and truth, and have all power, what does that say to us? Jesus is the way and God’s salvation of His lost sheep, and is the way that God keeps them.

Tong
R2975
 
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Amazed@grace

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For me the problem with those who argue against eternal salvation is rather simple.
Their premise arrives from first having faith in the "I" factor above all else.
We can choose to have faith. And conversely, we can choose to abandon faith. And because the will of "I" is greater than that of the King of heaven, God will oblige and damn us at our request.
Because we choose to lose faith and suffer hell as a consequence.
When we lose faith in God, he loses faith in us.

That's why the scriptures speak of and to our will overcoming God's.
 

Tong2020

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Jesus is the most secure thing in existence. That's why we would do well to keep believing in Him and not abandon Him for 'another' gospel like the Galatians and the Corinthians did, and the Hebrew church was contemplating doing.
It is not the Hebrew church, but is what the writer is telling, even exhorting them to do. For it seems to him that the church is being brought by some to fall away from grace and back to the law. It is apparent to him that the church had not matured as they should have by then, and seems to indicate that they are still babes, as some seem appears inclined to do so. So that he tells them of the deeper knowledge of the truth, what he calls “meat”. Rightfully and wisely so, for if they know the truth, the truth will set them free. And so he exhorts them with the truth, not with and by anything else. Even this truth:

Hebrews 10:39 But we are not of those who draw back to perdition, but of those who believe to the saving of the soul.

Tong
R2976
 

Tong2020

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i fail to understand why he does not answer my questions . i am trying to establish the reason for the hope that is with in him.
Why am I not surprised?

Tong
R2979
 

Tong2020

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For me the problem with those who argue against eternal salvation is rather simple.
Their premise arrives from first having faith in the "I" factor above all else.
We can choose to have faith. And conversely, we can choose to abandon faith. And because the will of "I" is greater than that of the King of heaven, God will oblige and damn us at our request.
Because we choose to lose faith and suffer hell as a consequence.
When we lose faith in God, he loses faith in us.

That's why the scriptures speak of and to our will overcoming God's.
To repent unto God and believe in the one He sent Jesus Christ, means surrendering one’s will to God. Why the surrender of one’s will to God must be obvious by now.

Now, if one still have the mind that he can will to reject Jesus Christ some time later or that it is possible that he will reject Jesus Christ later, he must examine himself whether he had truly repented unto God and believed in Jesus Christ. For rejecting Jesus Christ is not the will of God. If not the will of God then, whose will is it? And if it’s not God’s will and is the person’s will, would that not mean he had not truly surrendered his will to God?

Some may argue, that committing sin is not the will of God. Does it mean that when one commits a sin, he did not truly surrender his will to God? Scriptures tells us that those born of God do not sin. Not to mean that they don’t commit any sin anymore, for that matter. But that, they do not desire to sin nor wills to sin. So, if one sees himself desiring to sin or willing to sin against God, that sure says something.

Tong
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Ferris Bueller

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This question?

You assume God gives "crappy believing"? And you want me to somehow explain how that is?

Complex questions are logical fallacies, and are therefore meaningless. If you were to not bother with logical fallacies, we could save time. A complex question is one which assumes something not proven.

Perhaps it could be profitable to examine why it is you think that some must have "crappy believing"?

Much love!
If God is responsible for a person's believing (or else it's you trying to save yourself) why do some believers have, shall we say, imperfect believing? And especially imperfect believing in regard to living for Christ, not just in regard to salvation. I mean we got people saying here that you can go back to unbelief (again, what happened to God's responsibility for your believing?) and you are still saved. That's inconsistent with a claim that God is responsible for the believing you have. I would think if believing was God's doing, not yours (so that it wouldn't be works), he would do a better job at it than that. Don't you?
 

Ferris Bueller

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In my reading true repentance and believing is not a matter of maturity.
Right, it's not. Persevering in repentance and believing is.

That the Christian reaches a point of no turning back or the impossibility to reject Jesus Christ isn’t taught in scriptures.
I was thinking of Luke 8:15 ↓↓↓

12Those along the path are the ones who hear, and then the devil comes and takes away the word from their hearts, so that they may not believe and be saved. 13Those on the rocky ground are the ones who receive the word with joy when they hear it, but they have no root. They believe for a while, but in the time of testing they fall away. 14The seed that fell among thorns stands for those who hear, but as they go on their way they are choked by life’s worries, riches and pleasures, and they do not mature. 15But the seed on good soil stands for those with a noble and good heart, who hear the word, retain it, and by persevering produce a crop.​
 

Ferris Bueller

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The thing is, there are nominal Christians and there are true Christians. There are false brethren and there are true brethren.
Of course, we know that's true. I'm talking about true born again Christians. Some who have strong believing as opposed to those who don't, but who are saved nonetheless. If our believing is not ours, so as not to be a work of self righteousness, as is being argued here, why does God give crappy believing to some, while he gives strong believing to other Christians? I'm not talking about the evidence of the gospel itself—faith. I'm talking about a person's believing. The trusting that he does in response to the evidence of the truth (the faith) God gives a person.
 

Ferris Bueller

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In my view, it depends whether you or I is a true Christian or just a nominal Christian. It depends whether we have the faith that comes from God or just have the faith that comes from and what is common to man.
But Paul says they were true Christians, not fake ones.
 

Tong2020

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If God is responsible for a person's believing (or else it's you trying to save yourself) why do some believers have, shall we say, imperfect believing? And especially imperfect believing in regard to living for Christ, not just in regard to salvation. I mean we got people saying here that you can go back to unbelief (again, what happened to God's responsibility for your believing?) and you are still saved. That's inconsistent with a claim that God is responsible for the believing you have. I would think if believing was God's doing, not yours (so that it wouldn't be works), he would do a better job at it than that. Don't you?
What do you mean that God is responsible for a person’s believing?

Is it valid to say that God is responsible for salvation or for a person’s salvation?

Just want to clarify your question there.

Tong
R2991
 

Tong2020

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Tong2020 said:
In my reading true repentance and believing is not a matter of maturity.
Right, it's not. Persevering in repentance and believing is.
Please explain persevering in repentance and believing.

Tong2020 said:
That the Christian reaches a point of no turning back or the impossibility to reject Jesus Christ isn’t taught in scriptures.
I was thinking of Luke 8:15 ↓↓↓

12Those along the path are the ones who hear, and then the devil comes and takes away the word from their hearts, so that they may not believe and be saved. 13Those on the rocky ground are the ones who receive the word with joy when they hear it, but they have no root. They believe for a while, but in the time of testing they fall away. 14The seed that fell among thorns stands for those who hear, but as they go on their way they are choked by life’s worries, riches and pleasures, and they do not mature. 15But the seed on good soil stands for those with a noble and good heart, who hear the word, retain it, and by persevering produce a crop.​
What are you thinking is the point of the parable?

Tong
R2992
 
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