If God is responsible for a person's believing (or else it's you trying to save yourself) why do some believers have, shall we say, imperfect believing? And especially imperfect believing in regard to living for Christ, not just in regard to salvation. I mean we got people saying here that you can go back to unbelief (again, what happened to God's responsibility for your believing?) and you are still saved. That's inconsistent with a claim that God is responsible for the believing you have. I would think if believing was God's doing, not yours (so that it wouldn't be works), he would do a better job at it than that. Don't you?
Let's shift this conversation to Biblical terminology.
"Imperfect believing", that's not Biblical terminology. YOU are talking about people returning to a "pre-saving-faith" state, as if it were even possible.
You put your trick questions, and endless stream of fallacies, and little snippets of thoughts, to people trying to have an honest discussion with you. You give hypotheticals and spin them whatever direction you want, and you churn out an answer from someone that seems to you to fit your agenda.
I said I am not being fooled by you.
Here's part of what I mean.
No one here is telling you they think a believer will return to a "pre-saving-faith" state, "return to unbelief". And you know that's not what they mean. You drag out that statement falsely from people, and you will present yourself as having all the false sincerity as your chosen Icon.
YOU are the one who says a child of God stops believing, and stops being saved.
@Tong2020 ,
@Behold ,
@Blood Bought 1953 , myself, well, I know to be careful with my speech around you. None of us are saying that. You give careful wording to make it sound otherwise, and that's not honest.
Christians can have a bad day, a bad week, month, but that doesn't mean Jesus has left them, and that doesn't mean that God has stopped guarding us by HIS power - not our own - through faith, which is what God's power does in us to keep us.
Thinking that we have to keep our puny weak little fingers tight on God or well fall off back into death is such a light view of salvation I wonder that you'd even bother to call it salvation!
Now, here is Biblical terminology.
Colossians 3:1-13 KJV
1) If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
2) Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
3) For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
4) When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.
You've been risen with Christ, and now live a heavenly life with God. And though you be hidden now, you will appear with Him when He appears.
5) Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:
6) For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:
7) In the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them.
So because this is true, put to death the parts of you that are still on the earth. These are terrible things, the very things for which God will punish those who are not His children.
8) But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth.
9) Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds;
10) And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:
11) Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.
12) Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;
13) Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye.
The new man is renewed in the knowledge of God, so wear that person, not the old man, since you've put him off. Don't be those ways! Be these ways!
Do to others as Jesus has done to you!
So what about this "believing"? How is it that God can be SO CERTAIN about us that He'll turn out to be a liar if any of His children don't "remain saved"?
1 Peter 1:2-5 KJV
2) Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.
3) Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
4) To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
5) Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
The answer is here. We are kept by the power of God . . . through faith.
This is where it's easy to make a wrong turn. If you've come to the conclusion that these verses aren't true as stated, and that in fact you may not be kept for your inheritance, you can come to think it's up to you to "keep yourself saved".
Galatians 2:16 KJV
16) Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith
of Jesus Christ, even we have believed
in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith
of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
We believe "in" Jesus, but our believing in Jesus is not pointed as the source of our justification. We believe in Jesus - our faith - but it's Jesus' faith that justifies us.
Paul makes the same statement about our lives,
Galatians 2:20 KJV
20) I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which
I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
I live my life by the faith of Jesus.
Now, your question seems to be, "why is it then that those who have Jesus' faith in them don't look like that to me?"
The answer is in the doctrine of "renewing the mind".
Much love!