Once Saved Always Saved

[Hidden In Him]

If you understood what the essence of being 'born again' meant you'd know it can indeed be stopped and is not irreversible.

Congratulations on having a brain, Ferris, whether Behold thinks you have one or not, LoL.

@Behold. No offense, man, but insults don't have a place in this discussion. I consider his theology stronger on this issue than yours, but I still wouldn't go around saying you had no brain.

 

[Corlove13]

If you understood what the essence of being 'born again' meant you'd know it can indeed be stopped and is not irreversible.

Good Mornting!
Please explain the "essence of being born again" when you have a chance....

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
That is not quite what Hebrews 6:4-6 teaches.

If you don't un-rightly divide it from scripture you see that it does mean that. The Galatians and the Corinthians are proof that God doesn't instantly turn you over to your decision to leave the true gospel for another gospel.

Hebrews 6:4For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.

It’s clear, it is impossible, if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance. There isn’t any condition. No ifs or buts. Just to be clear, this concerns not a case of those who are about to fall away, but speaks of what results IF they fall away.

Tong
R3024

 

[Corlove13]

Hebrews 6:4For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.

It’s clear, it is impossible, if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance. There isn’t any condition. No ifs or buts. Just to be clear, this concerns not a case of those who are about to fall away, but speaks of what results IF they fall away.

Tong
R3024

So are you saying that it is impossible for them to fall away?

 

[Tong2020]

Go back to your point: that the law does not save people meaning; keeping the Ten Commandments. And the reason you said that is because you said that it's by grace.

But I still begg to differ, and.if you would like you can continue to argue your point. I will listen.
Maybe you should start with defining grace from the Bible.
And then move to your argument
Can you read Greek?

Instead, I will just cite scriptures that supports my view.

Eph. 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.

Tong
R3025

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
<<<Did God give us teachers and pastors?>>>

Yes God gave prophets, teachers and pastors.

<<<Is this Fourm a place where you learn?>>>

The Holy Spirit may use this forum as a place where we can learn, though not without and separate from scriptures.

<<<Why do you assume I do not read the Bible?>>>

I don’t. Encouraging one to read scriptures does not mean that the one being encouraged does not read scriptures.

<<<Can I read the Bible and other books by those who have wisdom?>>>

Yes you can.

<<<Or only the Bible?>>>

You can read anything. But the Bible is a must read. It prevails over anything else written. Apostle Paul once preached to the Bereans. Scriptures says it was a noble thing that the Bereans examined what Paul preached to them, in scriptures, to see the truth of what is preached to them. That was apostle Paul preaching. More so then concerning the preaching of other men.

<<<And when you read the Bible what translation do you read Are they not translated by men?>>>

I read the NKJV, NIV, and other translations, and not without checking with the Greek and Hebrew texts, aided by Hebrew and Greek dictionaries and lexicons.

Yes they were translated by men. That is why I go to that which they translated and study them.

Well many books meant to interpret are interpreting words from the Bible. And, even though this Forum is not exactly a book...Some of what is written can be made In- to one. My point is you must be careful with your words because it came off offensive to me. As you are the only one who goes to the word.

Has the Greek been translated?
Even when you look up a word you will find that there are many definition for that one word that may fit. So one still has to interpret.
Will continue......

No offense meant. But please accept my sincere apology. I’ll take note of this and will be very careful next time.

Tong
R3026

 

[Corlove13]

I think to fall away, and to fall from
Are different.

"Put Him to an open shame" means to me to reject the one that saves you...

It would be like me dying in place of my son for His Life and then after my death He cursed me. It meant nothing to Him....it's like Hebrews 10 counting unworthy the blood of the covenant.

In essence, one is counting on something else for their meaning in life.

So if you reject what saves you there is no repentance under the Law.
For to repent would mean you first had something to turn to....but you reject what you are to turn to.....





"Hebrews 6:4For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame."

 

[Corlove13]

No offense meant. But please accept my sincere apology. I’ll take note of this and will be very careful next time.

Tong
R3026

Tks for I sensitive...

 

[Corlove13]

Instead, I will just cite scriptures that supports my view.

Eph. 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.

Tong
R3025

Yes but what is one saved from in that passage.....

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
Hebrews 6:4For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.

It’s clear, it is impossible, if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance. There isn’t any condition. No ifs or buts. Just to be clear, this concerns not a case of those who are about to fall away, but speaks of what results IF they fall away.

So are you saying that it is impossible for them to fall away?

Yes.

What the passage is saying is that it is impossible for them to be brought back to repentance. If that is the case, and they could fall away, then Jesus Christ just lost them for good. And if so, what then becomes of these passages:

John 10:28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand. 30 I and My Father are one.”

John 6: 39 This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day.

Tong
R3027

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
Instead, I will just cite scriptures that supports my view.

Eph. 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.

Yes but what is one saved from in that passage.....

In my reading it is from the wages of sin ~ death.

Tong
R3028

 

[Corlove13]

Yes.

What the passage is saying is that it is impossible for them to be brought back to repentance. If that is the case, and they could fall away, then Jesus Christ just lost them for good. And if so, what then becomes of these passages:

John 10:28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand. 30 I and My Father are one.”

John 6: 39 This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day.

Tong
R3027

If someone totally reject Christ, under the Law no more sacrifices remain...
I know of one purpose, that the law was to lead to Christ.

Let's try some scenario analogies on and see if they fit or make any sense:

Christ is secure....as my house could be if it rains.
My house protects[saves] me from the cold,rain, animals, insects,murderers...etc

My house therefore is my salvation[deliverence, protection, hiding place]
Therefore as long as I am in my house I am able to receive protection, deliverance, or a hiding place.

Concerning John 6:39
Question will the fathers will be done?
If He would no one perish and we know some perish...then is his will always done?

As for John 28...try this out

He gives them eternal life, but eternal life is as long as you have it. So as long as you have eternal life then the rest of security applies.

But what is eternal Life? To know God and Jesus....
How is it you can hinder a relationship? Maybe to stop doing what you did that He decided to give you life?

Try those on

 

[Corlove13]

In my reading it is from the wages of sin ~ death.

Tong
R3028

.

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
Yes.

What the passage is saying is that it is impossible for them to be brought back to repentance. If that is the case, and they could fall away, then Jesus Christ just lost them for good. And if so, what then becomes of these passages:

John 10:28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand. 30 I and My Father are one.”

John 6: 39 This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day.

If someone totally reject Christ, under the Law no more sacrifices remain...
I know of one purpose, that the law was to lead to Christ.

Let's try some scenario analogies on and see if they fit or make any sense:

Christ is secure....as my house could be if it rains.
My house protects[saves] me from the cold,rain, animals, insects,murderers...etc

My house therefore is my salvation[deliverence, protection, hiding place]
Therefore as long as I am in my house I am able to receive protection, deliverance, or a hiding place.

Concerning John 6:39
Question will the fathers will be done?
If He would no one perish and we know some perish...then is his will always done?

As for John 10:28...try this out

He gives them eternal life, but eternal life is as long as you have it. So as long as you have eternal life then the rest of security applies.

But what is eternal Life? To know God and Jesus....
How is it you can hinder a relationship? Maybe to stop doing what you did that He decided to give you life?

Try those on

I don’t think the analogy fits well with the salvation of God. I don’t see Jesus as a house fixed where it is and that does not do anything. I see the figure of the Good shepherd and His sheep in John 10 as the one that fits well.

<<<Concerning John 6:39
Question will the fathers will be done?
If He would no one perish and we know some perish...then is his will always done?>>>

Yes the Father’s will, will be done. For Jesus had not failed in carrying out what His Father had Him to do.

The Father’s will in John 6:39 is different from his desire that no man should perish. His will in John 6:39 is about them whom He have given to Jesus Christ to raise up in the last day. The fulfillment of this will of God rest on the obedience and working of Jesus Christ, and not on the man. That is why its fulfillment is certain. For Jesus always obey and fulfill the will of His Father. If it rested on the obedience and working of man, then yes, such will of God will not be done.

<<<As for John 28...try this out

He gives them eternal life, but eternal life is as long as you have it. So as long as you have eternal life then the rest of security applies.>>>

“I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish”.

They shall never perish. What does that mean?

<<<How is it you can hinder a relationship? Maybe to stop doing what you did that He decided to give you life?>>>

However, while a relation between a Father and son may go sour, it does not take away the fact that they are Father and son. God will not let His sons go to hell. And He is able to do that.

Tong
R3030

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
I did not say that men tried to attain everlasting life through pride and greed. But that, the many reasons why men failed in any attempt to attain eternal life, I would sum them up to be because of pride, greed and selfishness.

<<<And what is everlasting life mean to you?>>>
Well, to tell you a few things about it, for one it is life that is everlasting, wherein death has no power over. It is the life that is in Christ Jesus. It is having God in us. It is an existence wherein one knows, that is, have a experiential relationship with the true God, the Father, and the Son Jesus Christ and of the Holy Spirit.

So if that is everlasting life, then what is eternal life?

They mean the same thing.

Tong
R3031

 

[Tong2020]

Behold said: ↑
Even common sense and a touch of logic should teach anyone who has a brain that you can't stop being '" BORN"".

If you understood what the essence of being 'born again' meant you'd know it can indeed be stopped and is not irreversible.

If one understands what being born again meant he’d know it is the work of God. And I am referring to John 3 where “born again” is more accurately translated “born from above”. I think that is what @Behold is referring to. Even with this alone, one can understand “born from above” means “born of the will of God”. So, such is not of the will of man, but is of the will God. Man’s will is outside of this birth. Him who was born from above was born of God, and is a child of God. They are Father and son. Their relationship could go sour, but it does not take away that they are Father and son. And the Father, I don’t believe, would allow His son to burn in hell.

Tong
R3032

 

[Corlove13]

They mean the same thing.

Tong
R3031

Give reference from scripture....that life eternal and eternal life are the same...edited

 

[Corlove13]

I don’t think the analogy fits well with the salvation of God. I don’t see Jesus as a house fixed where it is and that does not do anything. I see the figure of the Good shepherd and His sheep in John 10 as the one that fits well.

<<<Concerning John 6:39
Question will the fathers will be done?
If He would no one perish and we know some perish...then is his will always done?>>>

Yes the Father’s will, will be done. For Jesus had not failed in carrying out what His Father had Him to do.

The Father’s will in John 6:39 is different from his desire that no man should perish. His will in John 6:39 is about them whom He have given to Jesus Christ to raise up in the last day. The fulfillment of this will of God rest on the obedience and working of Jesus Christ, and not on the man. That is why its fulfillment is certain. For Jesus always obey and fulfill the will of His Father. If it rested on the obedience and working of man, then yes, such will of God will not be done.

<<<As for John 28...try this out

He gives them eternal life, but eternal life is as long as you have it. So as long as you have eternal life then the rest of security applies.>>>

“I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish”.

They shall never perish. What does that mean?

<<<How is it you can hinder a relationship? Maybe to stop doing what you did that He decided to give you life?>>>

However, while a relation between a Father and son may go sour, it does not take away the fact that they are Father and son. God will not let His sons go to hell. And He is able to do that.

Tong
R3030

We are talking about apples and oranges then
For I am not talking about ones quickening.

Because that's saying their quickening is also their justification

 

[Corlove13]

We are talking about apples and oranges then
For I am not talking about ones quickening.

Because that's saying their quickening is also their justification

I'm talking about eternal life
Being reconciled by His death
How much more will we be saved by His Life.

How is one saved by His life?- When the outcome is walking in the commands.
Another words if through the Spirit one mortified the deeds of the flesh they shall live.

But what happens when they get carried away by the cares of this world? Are you saying they continue to be reward life?

 

[Corlove13]

If one understands what being born again meant he’d know it is the work of God. And I am referring to John 3 where “born again” is more accurately translated “born from above”. I think that is what @Behold is referring to. Even with this alone, one can understand “born from above” means “born of the will of God”. So, such is not of the will of man, but is of the will God. Man’s will is outside of this birth. Him who was born from above was born of God, and is a child of God. They are Father and son. Their relationship could go sour, but it does not take away that they are Father and son. And the Father, I don’t believe, would allow His son to burn in hell.

Tong
R3032

.sorry