Once Saved Always Saved

[BloodBought 1953]

"Oh, what a tangled web we weave..

If you think that I am a “ deceiver” why do you talk to me ? I don’t talk to “ deceivers”. You are an “ Accuser Of The Brethren” and quite a special one at that.... Kudos to you!

 

[GracePeace]

Then why did you say "everyone lives a sinful life after they're born again"? It's not very popular to set oneself ablaze where you live is it?

It’s simple....” The Spirit is Willing, But The Flesh is Weak.....”

If one is Born Again, His Nature is Two-Fold .....the Old Nature sins and loves it....for the New Nature , sin is an impossibility.....We are involved in “ Spiritual Warfare” where the Enemy is not Flesh and Blood—- our Enemy is Of a Spiritual Nature.....evil Powers in high places......we have one helluva struggle —- battling against the World, the Flesh and the Devil and even strict James admitted that “ we ALL Stumble in multiple ways....” We are all capable of giving in to the “ Deceitfulness Of Sin” and sadly, we all do.....

It’s like this: Within the Believer there are Two Dogs—- A Black Dog and a White Dog. The one that you
feed the most will be the Dominant One....All Of Those That “Persevere” will see that the Black Dog loses more and more as time goes by ....That “ Perseverance” is a gift of God —- God Grants it to His Children .....it’s HIS doing— not yours .....it’s important that you remember that....

1a. "Sin" is when the spirit does something wrong (including thoughts), so there is no sin where the spirit is not involved. What can the body do once the spirit leaves? Nothing. What happens with sin, however, is that the spirit is inside the body, and the body forces the spirit to do what the body wants (this is explained throughout Romans 7)--but "if you walk in the Spirit you will not fulfill the desires of the flesh" which is why Romans 6:6 says Jesus brought "the body of sin to nothing".
1b. Romans 7 is not Paul in Christ it's pre-Christ : Romans 7:5 says what's being described in Romans 7-24 is "while we were in the flesh", but Christians are "not in the flesh but in the Spirit" Romans 8:9

2. Sorry, I don't believe in OSAS/POTS, I have no use for the "dog" parable.

 

[GracePeace]

If you think that I am a “ deceiver” why do you talk to me ? I don’t talk to “ deceivers”. You are an “ Accuser Of The Brethren” and quite a special one at that.... Kudos to you!

I think you're very confused.
Does accusing me of being an accuser make you an accuser?

 

[BloodBought 1953]

Romans 6:1-2
1What then shall we say? Shall we continue in sin so that grace may increase? 2Certainly not! How can we who died to sin live in it any longer?


1) You're abusing that phrase, taking it out of context : Romans 5:20 says that the Law came in that the trespass might increase, but where sin increased, grace abounded more. The sin abounded PRIOR to faith, and for JEWS who were under Law.
2) The very next verse Romans 5:21 says grace reigns through righteousness unto eternal life--wouldn't it be dishonest to claim you have grace when you have a bunch of sin (since grace reigns THROUGH RIGHTEOUSNESS)? Combine this with Romans 6:1-2 which I've already cited, and I think you're having a bad day as far as proving this doctrine.



Romans 5:20 says that the Law came in that the trespass might increase, but where sin increased, grace abounded more. The sin abounded PRIOR to faith, and for JEWS who were under Law.
2) The very next verse Romans 5:21 says grace reigns through righteousness unto eternal life--wouldn't it be dishonest to claim you have grace when you have a bunch of sin (since grace reigns THROUGH RIGHTEOUSNESS)? Combine this with Romans 6:1-2 which I've already cited, and I think you're having a bad day as far as proving this doctrine.



You don’t like Grace. You don’t understand it.That is because it has never been extended to you .That ain’t good. It’s the ONLY Thing that Saved anybody that was ever Saved.....yet it is Foreign to you....I’d be concerned about that if I were you.....

Grace ain’t Fair—- That is the Best News you could ever hear, But you don’t understand it....

Yes, as said, “Grace ain’t Fair”——- you had best learn to deal with that Fact and get as much of it as you can....come Judgement Day, you’ll find that you need Tons Of it.....

 

[GracePeace]

@bloodbought
So... no answers to the Scriptures. Got it.
Thanks for displaying the bankruptcy of your position.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

I think you're very confused.
Does accusing me of being an accuser make you an accuser?

No....it makes me one that is “Rebuking” an “Accuser Of The Brethren”...... as we are required to do....

 

[GracePeace]

No....it makes me one that is “Rebuking” an “Accuser Of The Brethren”...... as we are required to do....

So, I deny that I am an accuser, too, I'm just "rebuking" you--using Scripture, which you have no answer for--and you're falsely accusing me of being an accuser when I'm trying to protect people from being misled by the confusion that comes from people like you.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

@bloodbought

So... no answers to the Scriptures. Got it.
Thanks for displaying the bankruptcy of your position.

Yawn.....
What a cheap way out.....that lazy approach works sometimes with those that don’t know their Bibles .It won’t work with me.
You tell me exactly what it is that I have claimed that I can’t back up with Scripture.....I’ll provide it.

No Scriptural answers from me , you claim ?...lol.....don’t you WISH! As they say....”That Dog won’t hunt!”

Now is you Big Chance—— Go For It!

 

[BloodBought 1953]

So, I deny that I am an accuser, too, I'm just "rebuking" you--using Scripture, which you have no answer for--and you're falsely accusing me of being an accuser when I'm trying to protect people from being misled by the confusion that comes from people like you.

Lol....you’re a true Saint, aren’t you? Go out and “ protect” until your Heart is content.....I will defend forever Your “ Right to be Wrong”......

 

[GracePeace]

Yawn.....
What a cheap way out.....that lazy approach works sometimes with those that don’t know their Bibles .It won’t work with me.
You tell me exactly what it is that I have claimed that I can’t back up with Scripture.....I’ll provide it.

No Scriptural answers from me , you claim ?...lol.....don’t you WISH! As they say....”That Dog won’t hunt!”

Now is you Big Chance—— Go For It!

I actually already responded to all of your purports with Scripture, and you never addressed my responses with Scripture, you went off on a tangent instead.
Example : Paul says "we no longer live in sin" (and Peter says : "Since therefore Christ suffered in the flesh, arm yourselves with the same way of thinking, for whoever has suffered in the flesh has ceased from sin...") but you say "yes we live in sin".
etc, etc, etc

Then there's a post where I debunked the idea that the flesh sins but not the spirit.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

So, I deny that I am an accuser, too, I'm just "rebuking" you--using Scripture, which you have no answer for--and you're falsely accusing me of being an accuser when I'm trying to protect people from being misled by the confusion that comes from people like you.

“ People like me” will sing “ Nothing But The Blood Of Jesus” at Church this Sunday without being a lying hypocrite as I sing it...... can YOU make that same claim? I am certain that I don’t get everything right , but I am sure am happy that I don’t find myself arguing against “ that” Truth! How about you?

 

[GracePeace]

“ People like me” will sing “ Nothing But The Blood Of Jesus” at Church this Sunday without being a lying hypocrite as I sing it...... can YOU make that same claim? I am certain that I don’t get everything right , but I am sure am happy that I don’t find myself arguing against “ that” Truth! How about you?

Again, zero Scripture.

 

[Tong2020]

BB stated that if he died while being an unbeliever he would have went to Heaven.

"[B]If I died when I didn’t believe I would have gone to Heaven[/B] because there was One Time That I DID Believe.....that’s all it takes...."

If it is as you say, then I disagree with him on that.

Tong
R3173

 

[BloodBought 1953]

I actually already responded to all of your purports with Scripture, and you never addressed my responses with Scripture, you went off on a tangent instead.
Example : Paul says "we no longer live in sin" (and Peter says : "Since therefore Christ suffered in the flesh, arm yourselves with the same way of thinking, for whoever has suffered in the flesh has ceased from sin...") but you say "yes we live in sin".
etc, etc, etc

Then there's a post where I debunked the idea that the flesh sins but not the spirit.

If Paul says “ We no longer live in Sin”, I’d say “take that to the Bank”
My position is even though we no longer “ live in Sin” , we all lead Sinful lives because we all commit sins every hour of every day....

You ever have a lustful thought? You ever give a woman or a picture of a woman a Lustful glance? Did you “ pluck out your eye” after you did it? Do You ever “ Worry” about anything? “Worrying” is a Sin.....Wanna talk about those pesky “ Sins Of Omission” that your type wants to “ sweep under the rug?” How many poor Strangers did you invite into your home today to feed and clothe? You know that those poor , needy types are out there ....you know they need your help, yet you did nothing to help anybody....If you know that there is something “ right” out there to be done and you dont do it—- that is a Sin, Sinner......

That is the only Point that I am trying to make.....you were born a Sinner— you are going to Die a Sinner , and you are going to need just as much Grace from God on the day that you die as you did on the Day that you got Saved—- a Ton Of it.....

 

[BloodBought 1953]

Again, zero Scripture.

Again....you don’t tell me what you want....you want Scripture for “ Jesus Saves?” Just tell me....

 

[GracePeace]

I am certain that I don’t get everything right

Yes, you are wrong here for instance. You said your spirit cannot sin.

That means you don't know what "sin" even is, because the very definition of "sin" is "spiritual slavery".

John 8:34
31So Jesus was saying to those Jews who had believed Him, “If you continue in My word, then you are truly My disciples; 32and you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.” 33They answered Him, “We are Abraham’s descendants and have never been enslaved to anyone; how is it that You say, ‘You will become free’?”
34Jesus answered them, “Truly, truly I say to you, everyone who commits sin is a slave of sin.

So, does Jesus think that there is a man somewhere forcing people to sin? No, Jesus is teaching that sin is spiritual slavery. That's what Paul explains, too.

Romans 6
4For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under the Law but under grace.

Galatians 4
24These things serve as illustrations, for the women represent two covenants. One covenant is from Mount Sinai and bears children into slavery: This is Hagar. 25Now Hagar stands for Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to the present-day Jerusalem, because she is in slavery with her children.

So, for Paul, sin is a "master" to the "slaves" which are those "under Law".

This is precisely what is described in Romans 7--sin is a "master" to people who are "under Law", who are "slaves" because the Law came in the increase the trespass Romans 5:20 by virtue of it being the strength of sin 1 Corinthians 15:56.

Romans 7-24
14For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am of the flesh, sold under sin [sold like a slave]. 15For I do not understand my own actions. For I do not do what I want [slaves don't do what they want] but I do the very thing I hate. 16Now if I do what I do not want, I agree with the law, that it is good. 17So now it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells within me. 18For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh. For I have the desire to do what is right, but not the ability to carry it out. 19For I do not do the good I want, but the evil I do not want is what I keep on doing. 20Now if I do what I do not want, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells within me.
21So I find it to be a law that when I want to do right, evil lies close at hand. 22For I delight in the law of God, in my inner being, 23but I see in my members another law waging war against the law of my mind and making me captive to the law of sin that dwells in my members [slaves were often "captives", prisoners of war] 24Wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I myself serve the law of God with my mind, but with my flesh I serve the law of sin.

Paul teaches that when he was in the flesh under the Law his inward person delighted in God's Law but it was not permitted to do it by reason of evil lying close by in the flesh--instead, he was forced to do what he did not want to do and what he hated and disagreed with. That is precisely what slavery is. The point is : there is no such thing as "sin" that is not the spirit, because "sin" is when the mind and spirit do what is contrary to their purpose (truth, service to God).

 

[BloodBought 1953]

If it is as you say, then I disagree with him on that.

Tong
R3173

And you would disagree with Jesus....

“ If you Believe in me , you “ALREADY HAVE” Eternal Life and shall NEVER come under Condemnation....

I “ Believed”, therefore, I HAD it.Eternal Life. NOTHING from that point forward can change that .....Jesus said that “NOTHING in the FUTURE” could take me out of His Father’s Grasp.....” Nothing” would include even “ ME” ......anything that changed after I once Believed would have to occur in the “ Future”, right? Right. I’m Justified.....My Sins are Covered by Grace...Despite myself.....
“If we are Unfaithful, He remains Faithful....”

Yeah.....I can scarcely believe it myself.....yet....it’s Scriptural .....I am not even sure that a True Believer can fall into real Unbelief......If one does fall into Error like this , I think that God will bring them back to their senses before they die....Theoretically , I think Scripture supports that He doesn’t HAVE to....”God Remains Faithful” .......Amazing Grace.....

 

[GracePeace]

If Paul says “ We no longer live in Sin”, I’d say “take that to the Bank”
My position is even though we no longer “ live in Sin” , we all lead Sinful lives because we all commit sins every hour of every day....

All right.

You ever have a lustful thought? You ever give a woman or a picture of a woman a Lustful glance?

Depends on how much grace I have at the time. Thank God I haven't watched porn in years.
Most American "Christians" do watch porn--and they're going to hell.

Did you “ pluck out your eye” after you did it? Do You ever “ Worry” about anything? “Worrying” is a Sin.....

I understand where you're coming from, but I still think it would be better if you would stick to Scriptural verbiage.
Peoples' red flags go up when they see someone saying "we live in sin" as you have said.
We do not "live in sin" even if we do sin.

Wanna talk about those pesky “ Sins Of Omission” that your type wants to “ sweep under the rug?”

Stop being an accuser of the brethren. LOL

How many poor Strangers did you invite into your home today to feed and clothe? You know that those poor , needy types are out there ....you know they need your help, yet you did nothing to help anybody....If you know that there is something “ right” out there to be done and you dont do it—- that is a Sin, Sinner......

Ah, you almost caught me, but Jesus prohibits me from sharing my good deeds!

That is the only Point that I am trying to make.....you were born a Sinner— you are going to Die a Sinner , and you are going to need just as much Grace from God on the day that you die as you did on the Day that you got Saved—- a Ton Of it.....

1. Nope, I was born a sinner but I will die a "saint" technically speaking.
2. I don't define "grace" the way you do.
For me, "grace" is not just how I am saved, it is also the method of service Romans 6:14.
3. Even though everything you're saying is technically unsound, I'm getting a sense of where you're coming from, and it's not a bad place, it's a good place.

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
You say maybe and maybe not. Why? Do you not believe that a true Christian is one who have a true faith, faith that abides and continues to the end? For only if you don’t believe in that that your answer would be a valid answer.

Not all true Christians have the good and noble soil of the heart in which Jesus said the word is retained....

But the seed on good soil stands for those with a noble and good heart, who hear the word, retain it, and by persevering produce a crop. Luke 8:15​

Maybe a true Christian is this, maybe they're not, yet.

<<<Not all true Christians have the good and noble soil of the heart in which Jesus said the word is retained....>>>

All true Christians have all been given a new heart and a new spirit.

Again, misuse of the parable there.

Tong
R3174

 

[GracePeace]

And you would disagree with Jesus....

“ If you Believe in me , you “ALREADY HAVE” Eternal Life and shall NEVER come under Condemnation....

I “ Believed”, therefore, I HAD it.Eternal Life. NOTHING from that point forward can change that .....Jesus said that “NOTHING in the FUTURE” could take me out of His Father’s Grasp.....” Nothing” would include even “ ME” ......anything that changed after I once Believed would have to occur in the “ Future”, right? Right. I’m Justified.....My Sins are Covered by Grace...Despite myself.....
“If we are Unfaithful, He remains Faithful....”

Yeah.....I can scarcely believe it myself.....yet....it’s Scriptural .....I am not even sure that a True Believer can fall into real Unbelief......If one does fall into Error like this , I think that God will bring them back to their senses before they die....Theoretically , I think Scripture supports that He doesn’t HAVE to....”God Remains Faithful” .......Amazing Grace.....

Ah, but Jesus says "whoever receives you receives Me" (about His apostles).

Paul the Apostle says eternal life is a repayment for good deeds on the Day of Judgment Romans 2:6-16 and Galatians 6:6-10.

If I don't accept that, I don't accept Jesus!

I believe BOTH : we have eternal life right now, and yet we are in a time of trial, as the children of Israel in the wilderness were tested Deuteronomy 8:2 (which corresponds to us today after salvation from spiritual slavery of sin 1 Corinthians 10:1-11) and only those who "pass the test" will inherit the Promise--the rest will fall under God's wrath in the wilderness.