Once Saved Always Saved

[Ferris Bueller]

Trusting God is the whole point of Christianity, and I'd want nothing else for you along those lines. No one here takes issue with your trust in God, only with the arguments you use to arrive at that trust--you're having to disregard so much truth in Scripture. Like I've said, I think many would be better off as Monergists even Monergism is inconsistent with Scripture, because It's tenets (eg, once saved always saved/perseverance of the saints) has practical use. John Piper says after being married he was never attracted to another woman. If anyone wants a "miracle" that should be the kind--righteousness. The guy trusts God. That's great. I'm just seeking to trust God's Word, nothing less, and you and all others who believe in OSAS believe in God's Word, but only part of it, so that's "less".

I think of John McArthur. Great teacher, and by all accounts a wonderful, faithful Christian. I was greatly educated and encouraged in the things of Christianity by his ministry when I was a young Christian. And, yet, now in these last few years I wonder how he can be such an adamant defender of Calvinism. But no matter. He still has great value to the body of Christ as a teacher and edifier of the church.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Yes, he was saved by grace through faith and...................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................I don’t know anything to add to that.

Tong
R3189

How about the confession of his mouth? Romans 10:10

 

[Ferris Bueller]

OSAS = License to Sin.

The new Osas equals that. Calvin's Osas, the original Osas, did not. It's becoming clear to me that the new Osas is the predominant Osas belief of this present day. I think all of Calvinism is on it's way out. It was a good run, though. What, almost 600 years?

 

[amigo de christo]

The thief on the cross confessed Jesus. He was saved. He didn't know a thing about the OSAS hoax.

It is a good reminder . For by grace we are saved through faith in Christ .
So how about this for a good reminder .
Say a man lived to be a hundred years old , and was upmost wicked all his days .
Then he gets sick and day by day he grows sicker still . Finally , By the grace of GOD that man
profess Christ as savoir . That man is saved .
TRUTH INDEED .
SO IS this next thing TRUE .
Say a man had come to Christ at fifteen years of age . Was a hearer and doer of His word . Had good faith in Christ .
year by year , faithful this man was , trusting in Christ as His savoir . Then At the age of one hundred
He is moved away from the hope of the gospel and dies . HIS END IS WORSE BIG TIME .
TRUTH is TRUTH . AND if JESUS warned , I warn . IF paul reminded , i remind .
WE truly do have all we need in Christ . He is able to succor us through any trial .
But sin can harden a heart . Folks overlook the message in hebrews .
Paul was writing and telling them to continue in the faith . Like some other places apparently judaism was creeping in .
SO paul reminded them . HEY , we are partakers of CHRIST , IF WE HOLD OUR CONFIDENCE IN HIM FIRM TO THE END .
Folks need to read the whole of that letter . Even GOD from heaven warns a church to return to its first love .
IF their first love had been wrong , if they didnt have the right love , WHY did GOD say , RETURN TO THAT or ya candel gets put out .
Folks and acroynms . As for me , its me AND JESUS and ALL HIS REMINDERS , and all reminders of the apostels and revelation too .
As well as all sound biblical doctrine . Many stand on an acroynm . As for me i shall stand on Christ alone . having faith in HE alone
Which means trusting IN all HIs sayings . not just some . ALL of them . Now let the KING be praised .

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Guy, you haven't gotten a single thing correct and you're boasting about being a mature meat eater? Absolutely baffling. Are you on psychotropics?

I know, he's a pretty interesting fellow. I think it would be fun to hang out with him for a day. Just as long as he understands I won't purposely sin with him, lol.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

SO? Learn the difference between "confidence to speak unashamedly"
AND
"Arrogance, bragging, demeaning, that one has something, the other doesn't"...
Which is what you are "IMPLYING' is occuring....PROVE IT.

Did you miss the part of my post where I was careful to point out I do not know you personally to lay that accusation specifically on you?
No need to apologize. It happens.

 

[amigo de christo]

It's interesting how Osas has to jump in to make sure you don't think Paul is saying that those who stand by faith will not be spared because they fell back into unbelief.....

"They were broken off because of unbelief, but you stand by faith. ...if God did not spare the natural branches, He will certainly not spare you either." Romans 11:20-21​

Let this saying sink deep into your heart .
Men and acroynms , but as for me , ITS ME And CHRIST . Thus every warning to every promise , if its in that canon .
I BELIEVE IT . All warnings are for our good . As every Word of GOD is for our good . The LORD thy GOD does not warn in vain .
HE warns those who do err so as they can repent . IF folks dont take the warning , well as i said HE dont warn in vain .
IF we or any are moved away from the hope of the gospel and go into another go spell , rather judiasm or all inclusvism
our end is gonna be bitter wailing , gnashing of teeth , screaming begging and pleading , but then it will be too late .
We better know and understand we must continue in the one true gospel of our LORD .
IF we are truly in HIM , then we would love and keep His sayings , love and keep the apostels sayings , for they too walked
by the Spirit . See , GOD knows our nature , our flesh is contrary to the Spirit . ITs why He often used men
to warn and remind folks , HEY you better repent , you better continue in JESUS . IF they warned and reminded
One would think we would too . But as i said , today its men and acroynms , as for me , ITS CHRIST ALONE I TRUST .
RAISE those hands and let the LORD be praised . I say again , oh i say again , PRAISE THE GLORIOUS LORD .
Let us be feasting only more and more so on those scriptures . FLOOD them all over the place .
Whosoever beleives what GOD inspired amen . Who so ever does not trust in what GOD inspired , well i can only say WOE unto thee .
Return to bibles and learn them well . for many men have long been at work to decieve and deceptoin is only getting much worse
much faster in these days . OH but he or she who endures unto the end , the same shall be saved . JESUS SPOKE TRUTH , HE IS TRUTH .

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Absolutely Correct! And I KNOW WHY...(according to Gods Word)...and So can any other man Be given Gods Gift of Salvation, Once and Forever...IF they choose to Hear, Learn, Trust that the POWER (Spirit) of God IN A MAN, IS GREATER than the mans POWER to "thrust" Gods Gift of Salvation OUT of that man.

1 John 4:
[4] Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: BECAUSE greater is he that is IN you, than he that is in the world.

* FEAR...of the Lord is a beginning of wisdom.
* NO FEAR....of the Lord is an ending of having received Gods Baptism of HIS Holy Spirit...With and "IN" a man.
* Gods Spirit 'IN' a man "IS THE KEY Knowledge AND Understanding...His Spirit "IN" a man "IS" Forever.

Learn the Scriptures...LEARN the TRUTH.
Gods Spirit Absolutely CAN BE "WITH" a man...... AND LEAVE A MAN.

Gods Spirit (only) "WITH" a man IS NOT a man Having "RECEIVED" Salvation.

Gods Spirit (SPECIFICALLY);
"WITH and IN" a man, IS EXPRESSLY a man who HAS RECEIVED Gods Gift of Salvation...ONCE and FOREVER

Arguing, a man can RECEIVE Gods Spirit "IN" the man, the man BE SAVED; then LOSE his Salvation....IS NEVER taught in Scripture.

Understanding, Gods Spirit can BE "WITH" a man...and then LEAVE a man....IS Scriptural Teaching.

Gods Spirit "IS" "WITH" every man WHO is "HEARING" the Word of God.
Such men are Scripturally CALLED....
"TASTING".
( they receive Blessings from God FOR HEARING His Word )

Heb 6:
[4] For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,

* THEY have Tasted, the enlightenment of Gods Word....BY "HEARING".
* THEY experienced Having the "Holy Spirit"
WiTH THEM.
* IF they CHOOSE TO REJECT what they have HEARD...THEY STOP HEARING...and the Holy Spirit, Leaves...and is NO LONGER WITH THEM

* ^ that has nothing to do with a man WHO ... Has the Holy Spirit "WITH" them...AND "IN" them.

* Scripture IS FULL of Examples of men, WHO have the Holy Spirit "WITH" them...and "WARNINGS" to them.. IF THEY DO NOT COMPLETE the Requirement of "Heartful Confession".... ) THEY ARE "IN DANGER" of NEVER RECEIVING Salvation.

The Warning is repeated throughout Scripture....MEN ARE WEAK, they are EASILY "influenced" by Demonic Presence, and Philosophies of men, with Wicked anti-Christ teachings.

* Scripture EXPRESSLY "requires" the Holy Spirit of God....TO BE "WITH and IN" a man, for the man TO HAVE "RECEIVED" Gods Gift of Salvation.

* FURTHER Scripture EXPRESSLY "teaches" Once the Holy Spirit of God...."IS" "With and IN' a man...THE man IS SAVED...and the man IS KEPT SAVED FOREVER, BY the "indwelling POWER of God".

Men Against "OSAS", giving "Scriptural Examples" of men, having Gods Spirit "WITH" them, but NOT "IN" them...is a MOOT analogy...trying to Compare to a man WHO "DOES HAVE, Gods Spirit "with and IN" them.

I stand Firmly, without shame...
God Offered "ONCE" Through His Word Jesus, and Through His Power Christ, and Through His Wisdom Christ ...
That ANY man Who Hears Gods Word...
Gods Spirit IS WITH that man.
That ANY man Who "ONCE" Confesses Heartful Belief...IN God, IN His Word, In His Power...
Gods Spirit ENTERS INTO that man ... and is FOREVER (BY THE POWER of God)..."WITH and IN" that man.

What anyone else BELIEVES, is of no consequence to me.

The important thing is that you believe, and continue to believe, just as the Bible tells us to do. Just don't go around telling believers those admonitions aren't' written to them.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

It depends on their attitude toward the sin. I knew someone who considered porn viewing as kind of a normative sin and it just kept on going on year after year. Is that "besetting"? Are they really sorry? If they're sorry, that's different, and if they strive against it and hate it then all right. "Besetting Sin" doesn't cancel 1 Corinthians 5 "do not even eat with someone who claims to be a believer yet lives in sin".

Hey, @Blood Bought 1953 , I'm wondering if maybe I shouldn't hang out with you since you say you live in sin, and even on purpose sometimes (as all Christians do, you say).

But now I am writing you not to associate with anyone who claims to be a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or a verbal abuser, a drunkard or a swindler. With such a man do not even eat. 1 Corinthians 5:11

​

So, should I hang out with you, or not?

Edit: It's a serious question. I would like to know what you think the difference is between your sinning and the sinning of the brethren we are to avoid is.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

These many people in Matthew 7:22 had the wrong foundation. They were trusting in their works to save them and NOT IN CHRIST ALONE. Jesus NEVER knew them which means they were NEVER saved. Their hearts were not right with God, so their "attempted external obedience" (apart from the righteousness of God which is by faith and the blood of Christ) was stained with sin. *Seeking salvation by works is not the will of the Father. (John 6:40)

Where are you getting out of that passage that they had "attempted external obedience"? I see where Jesus said they were busy in various spiritual gifts (real, or unreal, who knows), but that these are people who did not put His words into practice, and so they are like a house that is built on sand that will fall when the storms of judgment come.

 

[amigo de christo]

Hey, @Blood Bought 1953 , I'm wondering if maybe I shouldn't hang out with you since you say you live in sin, and even on purpose sometimes (as all Christians do, you say).

But now I am writing you not to associate with anyone who claims to be a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or a verbal abuser, a drunkard or a swindler. With such a man do not even eat. 1 Corinthians 5:11

​

So, should I hang out with you, or not?

Lets not taunt BB . The answer is , if you go over to visit HIM and you see Him sin , YOU better warn Him not to do so .
If he wont heed , do as paul and others said , seperate your company . And pray He sorrows to repentance .

 

[Ferris Bueller]

kcnalp said:
Believers who will burn in Hell.
Why, do you believe there are true “believers” who will burn in hell? Or are you referring to nominal “believers”?

Tong
R3182

Because kcnalp thinks Satan is more powerful than Jesus Christ. He claims Hell is eternal but it's not. Jesus Christ escaped hell and so did Jonah.... others will too. "death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works." (Rev 20:13)

He also claims works are a false gospel. But that is a lie because HOW are they to be judged? "they were judged every man according to their works." (Rev 20:13)

Jesus Christ is not in the trinity doctrine. In order to look up the trinity doctrine you would first have to close your Bible and look into Apostate teachings. Good people go to hell but Jesus Christ provides escape.

Uh, oh! I think Jehovah's Witnesses are knocking at the door. Quick, pretend like we're not home!

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Lets not taunt BB . The answer is , if you go over to visit HIM and you see Him sin , YOU better warn Him not to do so .
If he wont heed , do as paul and others said , seperate your company . And pray He sorrows to repentance .

I'm not taunting him. I almost added, "that's a serious question", to the end of that post. Because I want to know what he thinks the difference between his sinning and the sinning of the people in the church we are to avoid is. In fact, I think I will add it.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

It's the ultimate ear tickling doctrine—

“ Ear Tickling” is telling people what they want to hear—-mainly, “I’ll save myself by MAKING myself Worthy” ......I do this by doing my best to “ live the Christian Life” ( I Stop Sinning) and rely on my ability to use Repentance to fill the Gaps when I mess up......No Repentance from all of the Sins I commit after I am “ saved?” No Salvation!

Personally, I Don’t worry about all that stuff.....I am “ MADE Worthy “ by the Blood Of The Lamb.....I REST in that Knowledge.....

I can’t lose my Salvation no matter what Sins I commit —— I could conceivably “ get away” with anything I choose to do! Now that I have a New Heart what do I “ Choose” to do? Obey God. Ain’t Christianity crazy? A man who has Complete Freedom freely choose to be God’s Slave —- only God could come up with something “this” Wild.....and so OPPOSITE of what the World and Legalists and Religionists and Tares think.....it must really be a drag to be them.....

 

[Wrangler]

It's the ultimate ear tickling doctrine—

“ Ear Tickling” is telling people what they want to hear—-mainly, “I’ll save myself by MAKING myself Worthy”

Except the opponents do not accept this categorization. Those in the NOSAS have never said anything like this. We are saved by faith in the grace of Jesus and have a burden to keep it that way by actually doing the will of God, the Father in Heaven. This is the meaning of Matthew 7:21.

The analogy I use is that we are drowning and the trustworthy Savior throws us a life preserver. It is our responsibility to:

1. take hold of it
2. and keep holding onto it.

Otherwise, it is OSAS that is the ultimate ear tickling doctrine - license to sin.

 

[Wrangler]

I can’t lose my Salvation no matter what Sins I commit

This is patently untrue. Jesus himself talks about an unforgivable sin.

 

[mailmandan]

Where are you getting out of that passage that they had "attempted external obedience"? I see where Jesus said they were busy in various spiritual gifts (real, or unreal, who knows), but that these are people who did not put His words into practice, and so they are like a house that is built on sand that will fall when the storms of judgment come.

Jesus never knew them (Matthew 7:23) which means they were never saved. How then could they be busy with spiritual gifts when they were not genuine Christians? There are people who are “religious, but not right with God” (including false prophets and false teachers) who are busy doing various things which may look spiritual, but they have not genuinely put into practice the words of Jesus.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

Still living in your sin is not being at rest in the finished work of the cross.


If you actually trust God and his word you would NOT be conceited. You would live humbly for him in increasing righteous behavior, not arrogantly in the sin of your old life. That's what faith does. Faith does not make it so you can 'rest' in you old life of sin. Faith makes it so you can rest in freedom from the slavery of sin. That's the Sabbath rest of God that the believing enter into.

Lol.....what on EARTH makes all you Religionists out there think that I am some kind of EVIL SIN MONSTER ? Haha.....

Just because I ADMIT that I am A Sinner ( which you are too!) doesn’t mean that I am going around Raping, Ravaging and Plundering every second of every day! Don’t attack me just because I am I more Mature in the Faith than you guys—— I HATE SIN , but I am just a lot more “ Son” Conscience than I am “ SIN “ Conscience.

Not that it really matters, but let’s just step back for a second and take an objective look at old BB and judge him as the World measures these things.....

You only see me in here in a Warrior Mode , fighting against Legalism and Religion ( Christianity’s Opposite— a topic for another time) In the Real World—-and it is NOT my nature to brag.....I am the Kindest, most Considerate, most Forgiving , most Sensitive Person you would ever meet —- quick to understand and not judge others, a man that is eager to do Anything to help,others or uplift them.....I’m kinda like Jesus in a few regards......it was said that He “ went about doing Good” .....that’s what I do.....from the time I wake up until the time I go to bed.....

Believe it or not, one of my biggest problems in life us this: Most everybody I meet wants to hang around me and be my “ best friend”......always trying to be with me or inviting me to spend time with them or to go out to dinner with them at their expense, etc.....

Things weren’t Always this way..... I am wise enough to know that what people see and like in me ain’t really “ Me”........it’s the “ Christ IN me” that they are responding to......If my Accusers here ever met me in person they would Love me ! No Brag—-Just Fact.......

 

[GracePeace]

This faith is precisely an example of the kind of internal work that is necessary.

Isn't defining "faith" as a "work", no matter the intention, going to complicate things (ie, since Paul goes to great lengths, time and again, to draw a distinction between them)?

 

[BloodBought 1953]

Guy, you haven't gotten a single thing correct and you're boasting about being a mature meat eater? Absolutely baffling. Are you on psychotropics?

What are “ psychotropics ?” Is that like “ LSD” and such? If so, you “ caught” me again...Everthing that I “ eat” is Laced with Pure Acid......Come on over to my “ pad”......we’ll listen to some Pink Floyd or Grateful Dead If you can “ Dig” it......hahahahaha......Peace, man.....