Hell Is God's Mercy

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Foreigner

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Bud, you really need to try to focus.

I have read and reread both the post and the link you provided.

NOTHING there indicates that hell is not forever for those sent there.

What is so hard for you to grasp?


As far as 2 Peter 2:4, you are aware that those who die in their sin are kept SOMEWHERE until judgement day when they are cast into hell for all eternity.........right?

Except for Matt 25:41 (which you admit supports my point) NONE of the other five scriptures you refer to has ANYTHING to do with the topic at hand.

Please focus and try again.
 

bud02

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Why don't you two just admit you have no interest in anything but your own opinion. Your smarter than anyone in this forum.
The things I have learned in both the Spirit and in the world such as learning many trades is the result of listening and realizing I don't know it all.
It's an attribute you two don't share. In that its clear you have no need or desire to continue your walk in the Lord. You already hold all the answers.

Good luck with that, I'll continue to search, knowing that the Lord has revelations that are yet to be relieved. BTW thats what revelation means, the unveiling.
 

Foreigner

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"In that its clear you have no need or desire to continue your walk in the Lord. You already hold all the answers." - Bud


-- Of course not. As a matter of fact I am still waiting for one from you.

You make the claim but do not provide a single solitary scripture verse to support it.

Then you state that the one I provided proves just the opposite of what you say, but none the less you reject it.

Just who feels like they have all the answers?
 

TexUs

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Nov 18, 2010
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Bud, it's not just me, as you can see. Others can see through your distractions to the core: you've failed to provide scriptural support for your view and failed to address the scripture posted.
 

bud02

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Bud, it's not just me, as you can see. Others can see through your distractions to the core: you've failed to provide scriptural support for your view and failed to address the scripture posted.

As I pointed out in the other post. That lead to your reply just now. http://www.christianityboard.com/topic/13184-the-image-of-god/page__view__findpost__p__98796
If you are not interested in reading the links I proved and having a discussion about them, I'm not interested in beating each other up. Have a good day.
 

TexUs

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What say you of the inability to answer the scripture we posted?

What links? The one back to your prior post in thread thread? Yes, I've read it, and it doesn't answer the question. You continually avoid answering the question.
 

bud02

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What say you of the inability to answer the scripture we posted?

What links? The one back to your prior post in thread thread? Yes, I've read it, and it doesn't answer the question. You continually avoid answering the question.

I did many times. But as you just said
I've read it, and it doesn't answer the question.

Your question has been answered by both me and the links I provided If you did indeed read them. In the other thread I posted the post on page 5 where you said you had no intention of reading the links, so which is it now?

link http://www.christian...dpost__p__98804

And excuse me my mistake, it was page 4 post 119
[font="helvetica][size="2"]The word apolumi means "ruin" or "lose" or "perish" or "get rid of". It is not elimination but eternal destruction (destruction lasting eternally).[/size][/font]
[font="helvetica] [/font][/color]

Also, bud, if you can't formulate your own opinions I won't be discussing anything farther with you unless you can articulate your own arguments verses a copy and paste job from [url="http://www.thetruthabouthell.org/"]http://www.thetruthabouthell.org/[/url]
 

Foreigner

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Bud, I have read every link and every single scripture you have posted in this thread and none - Read: Not-a-single-one - supports the idea that hell will be a term sentence and then people will eventually be released. PERIOD.

You have already agreed that the scripture I posted, Matt. 25:41 proves just the opposite of what you claim but you then, in the next breath, reject it.

Post a scripture that supports your point. A simple request.

A scripture that indicates that hell is as you say. Again, a simple request.

Please don't turn around and criticize the request and the person making it. That shows you have nothing to support your position.

By your own admission I have already used scripture to support mine. Scripture that you already admitted says what I say it does.

Please man up or give up.
 

bud02

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Aug 14, 2010
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Bud, I have read every link and every single scripture you have posted in this thread and none - Read: Not-a-single-one - supports the idea that hell will be a term sentence and then people will eventually be released. PERIOD.

You have already agreed that the scripture I posted, Matt. 25:41 proves just the opposite of what you claim but you then, in the next breath, reject it.

Post a scripture that supports your point. A simple request.

A scripture that indicates that hell is as you say. Again, a simple request.

Please don't turn around and criticize the request and the person making it. That shows you have nothing to support your position.

By your own admission I have already used scripture to support mine. Scripture that you already admitted says what I say it does.

Please man up or give up.

Your looking for something I or the links never intended to say. people will eventually be released. PERIOD.
I have no desire to continue the dialog with you or Texas. You and him can twist and turn phrases and words until the Lord comes back for all I care, at this point Im done with the topic. It would seem that you two would like nothing better than continue to disagree with me. Let me suggest you simply say I disagree as I am now and let it rest.
 

bud02

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A simple request only for those that have scripture to support it.

People will not be tormented forever, they will be consumed in the second death, by the fire that consumes eternally the "eternal fire". Rev 21:8 ......... Matthew 10:28
And death and Hades will be thrown in to the eternal fire. Rev 20:14

Quite simple actually. Those who spend eternity in the AWFUL Biblical Hell will wish they were destroyed. I.E.

Luke 16:22-26 (NKJV)
[sup]22 [/sup]So it was that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels to Abraham's bosom. The rich man also died and was buried. [sup]23 [/sup]And BEING IN TORMENTS in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. [sup]24 [/sup]THEN HE CRIED and said, 'Father Abraham, HAVE MERCY ON ME, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I AM TORMENTED IN THIS FLAME.' [sup]25 [/sup]But Abraham said, 'Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things; but now he is comforted and you are tormented. [sup]26 [/sup]And besides all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed, so that those who want to pass from here to you cannot, nor can those from there pass to us.'

If you look closely you'll discover that this is a parable. I have to leave this endless impasse now, I said what I wanted to and as always you and everyone else have a choice, isn't that the wonderful thing about God he lets us make our own choices. Do you see the big big red letters above? Now read below.

And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire” (Revelation 20:14, King James Version, italics added)

Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire (Revelation 20:14, New International Version, italics added)


And Heres the links this is the last post boys have fun.

·
Death Discussions Part 7: The Hot Topic of Hell
· Death Discussions Part 8: The Hot Topic of Hell
· Death Discussions Part 9: The Hot Topic of Hell
· Death Discussions Part 10: The Hot Topic of Hell
· Death Discussions Part 11: The Hot Topic of Hell
· Death Discussions Part 12: The Hot Topic of Hell
· Death Discussions Part 13: The Hot Topic of Hell

And by the way boys why do you suppose Selene and aspen our catholic friends went on so long supporting eternal suffering?
You don't suppose that the universal church started the concept of eternal suffering in the first place do you, and by chance the belief was carried in to the protestant churches as well. Just some more food for thought. My first question was, show me the NT scripture where God went from in Gen 2, the day you eat of it you will surly die, to you will suffer in hell forever?
 

TexUs

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Nov 18, 2010
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Now, bud, was that honestly so hard? So now that we've spent pointless pages of bickering you finally post what we've been asking for all along.


So in a nutshell, you believe the fire is eternal but the souls that go into it, aren't?

Let me ask then, what's the point of an eternal fire?
 

bud02

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Aug 14, 2010
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Now, bud, was that honestly so hard? So now that we've spent pointless pages of bickering you finally post what we've been asking for all along.


So in a nutshell, you believe the fire is eternal but the souls that go into it, aren't?

Let me ask then, what's the point of an eternal fire?

There is nothing post here that I have not already posted. ;)

eternal fire is the second death, the fire that eternally consumes your body and soul the second death. Its no ordinary fire. Matthew 10:28
When you die an unsaved soul you go to Hades red letters remember the verse from Luke above?. the word hell in Matthew 10:28 is Gehenna

you are held in Hades then Hades is thrown into Gehenna as Jesus said in Mt 10:24 ..............the fire Rev 20:14 .......destroyed like Jesus said in 10-28

apparently you can reason from scripture, must I take you by the hand with every word?
 

bud02

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Aug 14, 2010
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Ahhh, so no ability to answer again?

Didn't you get enough of me in the image of God thread?. I'm so sick of your smart remarks and your ability to ignore every effort to reason with you. :angry:
you seem to function as a parasite sucking away every reasonable attempt to communicate with you. Until all am left with is to tell you to @#^$#. Get it? :angry:
 

Duckybill

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Feb 12, 2010
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People will not be tormented forever, they will be consumed in the second death, by the fire that consumes eternally the "eternal fire". Rev 21:8 ......... Matthew 10:28
And death and Hades will be thrown in to the eternal fire. Rev 20:14
No, they will not have rest day or night.

Revelation 14:9-11 (NKJV)
[sup]9 [/sup]Then a third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, "If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, [sup]10 [/sup]he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. [sup]11 [/sup]And the smoke of their torment ascends FOREVER AND EVER; and THEY HAVE NO REST DAY OR NIGHT, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name."
If you look closely you'll discover that this is a parable. I have to leave this endless impasse now, I said what I wanted to and as always you and everyone else have a choice, isn't that the wonderful thing about God he lets us make our own choices. Do you see the big big red letters above? Now read below.“Tartarus” means “a place of darkness or restraint” (2 Peter 2:4). Satan abides there now. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire” (Revelation 20:14, King James Version, italics added)

Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire (Revelation 20:14, New International Version, italics added)


And Heres the links this is the last post boys have fun.

·
Death Discussions Part 7: The Hot Topic of Hell
· Death Discussions Part 8: The Hot Topic of Hell
· Death Discussions Part 9: The Hot Topic of Hell
· Death Discussions Part 10: The Hot Topic of Hell
· Death Discussions Part 11: The Hot Topic of Hell
· Death Discussions Part 12: The Hot Topic of Hell
· Death Discussions Part 13: The Hot Topic of Hell

And by the way boys why do you suppose Selene and aspen our catholic friends went on so long supporting eternal suffering?
You don't suppose that the universal church started the concept of eternal suffering in the first place do you, and by chance the belief was carried in to the protestant churches as well. Just some more food for thought. My first question was, show me the NT scripture where God went from in Gen 2, the day you eat of it you will surly die, to you will suffer in hell forever?
I always wonder why some try to deny eternal punishment in the fire. What do you have to gain? Eternal Hell is a good reason to get saved. Destruction won't bother a lot of people. Do you really want to be accountable for deceiving others who end up eternally in Hell?
 

bud02

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Aug 14, 2010
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No, they will not have rest day or night.

Revelation 14:9-11 (NKJV)
[sup]9 [/sup]Then a third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, "If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, [sup]10 [/sup]he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. [sup]11 [/sup]And the smoke of their torment ascends FOREVER AND EVER; and THEY HAVE NO REST DAY OR NIGHT, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name."

I always wonder why some try to deny eternal punishment in the fire. What do you have to gain? Eternal Hell is a good reason to get saved. Destruction won't bother a lot of people. Do you really want to be accountable for deceiving others who end up eternally in Hell?

Since you won't read the links I'll C/P the reply to your question


Tormented Day and Night forever
There are three places in book of Revelation that say, “the smoke of their torment ascendeth up forever and ever” (14:11), “her smoke rose up forever” (19:3), and “tormented day and night forever” (20:10). “Those verses prove you’re wrong, Mr. Wohlberg!” I sometimes hear. Again, let’s analyze the DNA.

Everyone knows that Revelation contains some symbolism, such as its references to a seven-headed beast, a Babylonian harlot holding a golden cup, and a glistening woman clothed with the sun. Obviously, these aren’t literal. What about the ‘tormented forever’ texts? Could they be symbolic too? Here’s something significant: If you look closely at each ‘tormented forever’ passage, every one is connected to symbolism. Revelation 14:11 and 20:10 refer to “the beast,” and Revelation 19:3 states, “her smoke rose up forever.” Whose smoke? The Whore riding the beast. Will a literal Harlot sizzle forever? No. This is symbolism.

Here’s more evidence worth considering: While Revelation 20:10 refers to torment forever, verse 9 says the opposite and contains no symbolism.

Verse 9 - And they [the lost] went up on the breadth of the earth [at the end of the Millennium], and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city [the New Jerusalem], and fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them.

Verse 10 – And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night forever and ever.

Verse 9 has no symbolism and says the lost are “devoured.” Verse 10 has symbolism and says they are tormented “forever.” Which is it? The literal truth lies in the text that contains no symbolism: “fire came down… and devoured them.” Beyond this, after “the lake of fire” is again described in verse 15, the next verse says,

And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away (Revelation 21:1)

Revelation 20:9 says the lost are upon “the earth” when God’s fire devours them. Thus “the earth” is the location of “the lake of fire.” Then Revelation 21:1 says the “first earth” passes away which must include the lake of fire! Then there will be “no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain” (Revelation 21:4). Here’s even more proof that “the lake of fire” will disappear.
 

Duckybill

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Feb 12, 2010
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Since you won't read the links I'll C/P the reply to your question
My faith is in God's Word, not links.
Tormented Day and Night forever
There are three places in book of Revelation that say, “the smoke of their torment ascendeth up forever and ever” (14:11), “her smoke rose up forever” (19:3), and “tormented day and night forever” (20:10). “Those verses prove you’re wrong, Mr. Wohlberg!” I sometimes hear. Again, let’s analyze the DNA.

Everyone knows that Revelation contains some symbolism, such as its references to a seven-headed beast, a Babylonian harlot holding a golden cup, and a glistening woman clothed with the sun. Obviously, these aren’t literal. What about the ‘tormented forever’ texts? Could they be symbolic too? Here’s something significant: If you look closely at each ‘tormented forever’ passage, every one is connected to symbolism. Revelation 14:11 and 20:10 refer to “the beast,” and Revelation 19:3 states, “her smoke rose up forever.” Whose smoke? The Whore riding the beast. Will a literal Harlot sizzle forever? No. This is symbolism.
You are being VERY evasive! The text is perfectly clear.

Revelation 14:9-11 (NKJV)
[sup]9 [/sup]Then a third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, "If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, [sup]10 [/sup]he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. [sup]11 [/sup]And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name."
Here’s more evidence worth considering: While Revelation 20:10 refers to torment forever, verse 9 says the opposite and contains no symbolism.

Verse 9 - And they [the lost] went up on the breadth of the earth [at the end of the Millennium], and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city [the New Jerusalem], and fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them.

Verse 10 – And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night forever and ever.

Verse 9 has no symbolism and says the lost are “devoured.” Verse 10 has symbolism and says they are tormented “forever.” Which is it? The literal truth lies in the text that contains no symbolism: “fire came down… and devoured them.” Beyond this, after “the lake of fire” is again described in verse 15, the next verse says,
And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away (Revelation 21:1)
Revelation 20:9 says the lost are upon “the earth” when God’s fire devours them. Thus “the earth” is the location of “the lake of fire.” Then Revelation 21:1 says the “first earth” passes away which must include the lake of fire! Then there will be “no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain” (Revelation 21:4). Here’s even more proof that “the lake of fire” will disappear.
You haven't proven a thing except you don't want to believe in eternal punishment in Hell. I have to wonder why. Luke 16 mentions Lazarus a real NT person. It is a real account and shows that punishment in the fire is eternal.
 

bud02

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Aug 14, 2010
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My faith is in God's Word, not links.

You are being VERY evasive! The text is perfectly clear.

Revelation 14:9-11 (NKJV)
[sup]9 [/sup]Then a third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, "If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, [sup]10 [/sup]he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. [sup]11 [/sup]And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name."

You haven't proven a thing except you don't want to believe in eternal punishment in Hell. I have to wonder why. Luke 16 mentions Lazarus a real NT person. It is a real account and shows that punishment in the fire is eternal.

Please read post 212 to has the answer to the first time you quoted luke 16 the word used is Hades now look what happens to Hades in Rev 20:14 if your bible choice doesn't say hades but hell instead look the word up in Strong's. Thats where most of the problem lies, most translate Hades, Gehenna and Tartarus as one word in English Hell. I know it means little to you but I've studied this topic for a long time. The OT never indicates eternal torment it always indicates death. Just as did God in Gen 2:17 . Secondly their is no clear distinction in the new covenant that now men will be eternally tormented. Wohlberg goes over nearly every instance in the NT. Besides all that I don't believe in all that I have read and know in the HS that God will have an eternal BBQ pit burning with the souls of the lost in it forever. Won't that make for a fine conversation piece at a picnic with the kids.