Hell Is God's Mercy

[bud02]

I just want to add that there are two options,

1] the word of God contradicts itself you will die vs you will be tormented forever.

2] We are miss understanding the message.

Now I never and never will accept choice 1the bible contradicts itself

 

[Duckybill]

Please read post 212 to has the answer to the first time you quoted luke 16 the word used is Hades

That's irrelevant. Call it whatever you like but it's still there, punishment in the fire, several times in the NT. You can't translate it out of the NT.

now look what happens to Hades in Rev 20:14 if your bible choice doesn't say hades but hell instead look the word up in Strong's.

So what??? It's still going in the Lake of Fire and all those therein. They will be there, forever.

Thats where most of the problem lies, most translate Hades, Gehenna and Tartarus as one word in English Hell. I know it means little to you but I've studied this topic for a long time.

Totally irrelevant! Punishment in the fire is VERY NT.

Matthew 13:49-50 (NKJV)
[sup]49 [/sup]So it will be at the end of the age. The angels will come forth, separate the wicked from among the just, [sup]50 [/sup]and cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth."

The OT never indicates eternal torment it always indicates death.

Really?

Daniel 12:2 (NKJV)
[sup]2 [/sup]And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, Some to EVERLASTING life, Some to shame and EVERLASTING contempt.

Just as did God in Gen 2:17

Which is referring to spiritual death, I.E. in need of salvation.

Secondly their is no clear distinction in the new covenant that now men will be eternally tormented.

Yes there is.

Matthew 25:41 (NKJV)
[sup]41 [/sup]Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the EVERLASTING FIRE prepared for the devil and his angels:

Wohlberg goes over nearly every instance in the NT.

2 Corinthians 11:13-15 (NKJV)
[sup]13 [/sup]For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into apostles of Christ. [sup]14 [/sup]And no wonder! For Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light. [sup]15 [/sup]Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also transform themselves into ministers of righteousness, whose end will be according to their works.

Besides all that I don't believe in all that I have read and know in the HS that God will have an eternal BBQ pit burning with the souls of the lost in it forever. Won't that make for a fine conversation piece at a picnic with the kids.

Maybe some of them will get saved.

Proverbs 9:10 (NKJV)
[sup]10 [/sup]"The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom, And the knowledge of the Holy One is understanding.

I just want to add that there are two options,

1] the word of God contradicts itself you will die vs you will be tormented forever.

2] We are miss understanding the message.

Now I never and never will accept choice 1the bible contradicts itself

Jude 1:6-7 (NKJV)
[sup]6 [/sup]And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in EVERLASTING CHAINS under darkness for the judgment of the great day; [sup]7 [/sup]as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of ETERNAL FIRE.

 

[bud02]

Yes there is.

Matthew 25:41 (NKJV)
[sup]41 [/sup]Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the EVERLASTING FIRE prepared for the devil and his angels:

Like I said ether the NT contradicts itself or your misunderstanding the message.

As they say the proponent of evidence is in my favor

Rom 6:23
Rom 5:12
Mt 10:28...............this one indicates that God can and will destroy souls "Words of Jesus as well"
James 4:12
1 Cor 15:22
John 8:21
John 8:24
John 8:52
2 Th 1:8-9
Phil 3:19
2 Peter 2:1

Jude 1:6-7 (NKJV)
[sup]6 [/sup]And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in EVERLASTING CHAINS under darkness for the judgment of the great day; [sup]7 [/sup]as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of ETERNAL FIRE.

This eternal fire right here in Jude are the fires that consumed Sodom and Gomorrah still burning today? Or were the inhabitants totally consumed like Jesus described in Mt 10:28
consumed both body and soul?

 

[Duckybill]

Like I said ether the NT contradicts itself or your misunderstanding the message.

I do understand. This verse uses the exact same Greek word for everlasting and eternal. If everlasting punishment doesn't mean forever then neither does eternal life mean forever.

Matthew 25:46 (NKJV)
[sup]46 [/sup]And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

Mt 10:28...............this one indicates that God can and will destroy souls "Words of Jesus as well"

Are you intentionally distorting God's Word? It doesn't say He will. It says He is able.

Naughty naughty.

 

[bud02]

I do understand. This verse uses the exact same Greek word for everlasting and eternal. If everlasting punishment doesn't mean forever then neither does eternal life mean forever.

Matthew 25:46 (NKJV)
[sup]46 [/sup]And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

Are you intentionally distorting God's Word? It doesn't say He will. It says He is able.

Naughty naughty.

I growing rather tired of playing this game.
As Dennis the Menace would say, I think your picking up the gauntlet for your old pal Mr Texus.

 

[Duckybill]

I growing rather tired of playing this game.
As Dennis the Menace would say, I think your picking up the gauntlet for your old pal Mr Texus.

As I said earlier, those who deny eternal Hell are prime candidates for eternal Hell.

 

[TexUs]

Ducky, could we expect less?
Of course you'll get a smart ass response back after posting:
Matthew 25:46 (NKJV)
[sup]46 [/sup]And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

Because it's too clear to deal with. You can't dance around it. So either you can:
A) Attack the poster
B) Drop it due to lack of argument remaining
C) Exegesis the text and explain how it doesn't say what it says.

Bud chose option A.

Didn't you get enough of me in the image of God thread?. I'm so sick of your smart remarks and your ability to ignore every effort to reason with you.
you seem to function as a parasite sucking away every reasonable attempt to communicate with you. Until all am left with is to tell you to @#^$#. Get it?

You seem to have an anger problem.
I'm not sure why typing symbols and emoticons has you convinced in your mind that it'd keep me at bay from questioning you or even hurt my feelings.

1] the word of God contradicts itself you will die vs you will be tormented forever.

Can't it be both?
23 Minutes in Hell.
A depiction of a man that was on fire. This fire could not be put out. (Torment). He ran around, eventually the fire burned him into a pile of ash. (Death). Then the pile of ash rises up as a new body again, catches fire, and the process repeats itself (Eternal).
It's torment and death, that's eternal.
Granted this is not authoritative, who knows if this depiction of hell is legitimate or not. The point is, there is a way it is both. Because as you said, it cannot contradict itself.
I'd much sooner hold to a theory of it being both than try to adamantly and ignorantly hold to one view, as you do- and necessarily make scripture contradict itself.

The Word of God doesn't contradict itself, only your theory does.

 

[Duckybill]

I growing rather tired of playing this game.
As Dennis the Menace would say, I think your picking up the gauntlet for your old pal Mr Texus.

I have found it to be quite common for cults to deny eternal punishment and that Jesus is God Almighty. Does the shoe fit?

 

[bud02]

I have found it to be quite common for cults to deny eternal punishment and that Jesus is God Almighty. Does the shoe fit?

Why you two are quite a pair................... a regular Dathan and Abiram coming out and standing at the door of their tents,

Jesus always testified of the Father and asked Him to send the Holy Spirit. I doubt that If we were standing face to face you could define cult.

 

[Duckybill]

Why you two are quite a pair................... a regular Dathan and Abiram coming out and standing at the door of their tents,

There's just one of me.

Jesus always testified of the Father and asked Him to send the Holy Spirit.

John 1 The Word was God. The Word became flesh and dwelt among us ...

I doubt that If we were standing face to face you could define cult.

Is that a threat?

 

[bud02]

Is that a threat?

LOL no Mr Ducky, The implication is face to face you don't know............ But sitting at your computer you can google an answer.

 

[Duckybill]

LOL no Mr Ducky, The implication is face to face you don't know............ But sitting at your computer you can google an answer.

Why don't you just keep your insults that you can't prove? I quote God's Word. I don't need Google for the forum.

Was I right about you then? The cults have similar characteristics. Those are 2 very common ones. 'Cult' meaning religion without salvation.

 

[bud02]

Why don't you just keep your insults that you can't prove? I quote God's Word. I don't need Google for the forum.

Was I right about you then? The cults have similar characteristics. Those are 2 very common ones. 'Cult' meaning religion without salvation.

Cults in one way or another deny Christ, the next notable feature is salvation is impossible outside the group.
I don't deny Christ and I don't don't have a personal following. I don't even affiliate myself with a denomination.
Also on the last page I suggested that you just say I disagree and let it rest. But you two insist on your own style of mocking instead, to which I'm happy to reply. You started with the cult implication as well. And as I suspected you don't know.

I have found it to be quite common for cults to deny eternal punishment and that Jesus is God Almighty. Does the shoe fit?

your side kick
Ducky, could we expect less?
Of course you'll get a smart ass response back after posting:

you
As I said earlier, those who deny eternal Hell are prime candidates for eternal Hell.

Are you intentionally distorting God's Word? It doesn't say He will. It says He is able.
Naughty naughty.

your buddy again
Ahhh, so no ability to answer again?

If you go back and look you and texas are the ones that start the smart remarks, then like most liken to yourselves, attempt to accuse me of being insulting when the going gets tough. I continued to try to present some evidence for a grown up discussion in reply to texas's smart remark supporting Foreigners request. Just go to the top of the page and look. Then tell me I started it. Its impossible for people like you to simply say I disagree, you would much rather slander.

 

[Duckybill]

Cults in one way or another deny Christ, the next notable feature is salvation is impossible outside the group.
I don't deny Christ and I don't don't have a personal following.

Do you deny that Jesus is God Almighty?

I don't even affiliate myself with a denomination.

You don't have to to qualify.

Also on the last page I suggested that you just say I disagree and let it rest. But you two insist on your own style of mocking instead, to which I'm happy to reply. You started with the cult implication as well. And as I suspected you don't know.

I am only responsible for my posts, not his. Stop blaming me for others' posts. I repeat, those who deny Jesus/God and eternal punishment are prime candidates for eternity in Hell.

your side kick
Ducky, could we expect less?
Of course you'll get a smart ass response back after posting:

I don't have a "side kick". Wrong again.

you
As I said earlier, those who deny eternal Hell are prime candidates for eternal Hell.

Yes indeed! That is truth.

Are you intentionally distorting God's Word? It doesn't say He will. It says He is able.
Naughty naughty.

Another fact.

your buddy again
Ahhh, so no ability to answer again?

If you go back and look you and texas are the ones that start the smart remarks, then like most liken to yourselves, attempt to accuse me of being insulting when the going gets tough. I continued to try to present some evidence for a grown up discussion in reply to texas's smart remark supporting Foreigners request. Just go to the top of the page and look. Then tell me I started it. Its impossible for people like you to simply say I disagree, you would much rather slander.

Gee, did you just "slander" me?

 

[bud02]

Gee, did you just "slander" me?

I said............ Its impossible for people like you to simply say I disagree, you would much rather slander.

I've been dealing with it since page 4 my first post in this thread. This isn't my first rodeo I'm completely capable of responding to people that talk in circles. Its like watching a dog chase his tail.

 

[Duckybill]

I said............ Its impossible for people like you to simply say I disagree, you would much rather slander.

I've been dealing with it since page 4 my first post in this thread. This isn't my first rodeo I'm completely capable of responding to people that talk in circles. Its like watching a dog chase his tail.

Why don't you just say what's really eating you? Your unScriptural doctrines.

John 20:28-29 (NKJV)
[sup]28 [/sup]And Thomas answered and said to Him, "MY LORD AND MY GOD!" [sup]29 [/sup]Jesus said to him, "Thomas, because you have seen Me, you have believed. Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed."

 

[bud02]

Why don't you just say what's really eating you? Your unScriptural doctrines.

John 20:28-29 (NKJV)
[sup]28 [/sup]And Thomas answered and said to Him, "MY LORD AND MY GOD!" [sup]29 [/sup]Jesus said to him, "Thomas, because you have seen Me, you have believed. Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed."

Here's my dilemma

Proverbs 26
[sup]4[/sup] Do not answer a fool according to his folly,
Lest you also be like him.
[sup]5[/sup] Answer a fool according to his folly,
Lest he be wise in his own eyes.

What we have here is not contradiction, but dilemma—an indication that when it comes to answering fools, you cannot win—because they are fools, and there is no practical cure for foolery (as this citation demonstrates). So: It is unwise to argue with a fool at his own level and recognize his own foolish suppositions, but it is good sometimes to refute him soundly, lest his foolishness seem to be confirmed by your silence.
I do think its time to be silent, good night Mr Ducky

 

[Duckybill]

Here's my dilemma

Proverbs 26
[sup]4[/sup] Do not answer a fool according to his folly,
Lest you also be like him.
[sup]5[/sup] Answer a fool according to his folly,
Lest he be wise in his own eyes.

What we have here is not contradiction, but dilemma—an indication that when it comes to answering fools, you cannot win—because they are fools, and there is no practical cure for foolery (as this citation demonstrates). So: It is unwise to argue with a fool at his own level and recognize his own foolish suppositions, but it is good sometimes to refute him soundly, lest his foolishness seem to be confirmed by your silence.
I do think its time to be silent, good night Mr Ducky

And you accuse us of insults. Guess you haven't read the NT.

Matthew 5:22 (NKJV)
[sup]22 [/sup] But whoever says, 'You fool!' shall be in danger of hell fire.

Ah, there's that Hell you don't believe in again.

 

[bud02]

And you accuse us of insults. Guess you haven't read the NT.

Matthew 5:22 (NKJV)
[sup]22 [/sup] But whoever says, 'You fool!' shall be in danger of hell fire.

Ah, there's that Hell you don't believe in again.

Didn't you ask me what was eating me? Your unScriptural doctrines.
I've been reading the thou shall not judge thread. Guess what everyone of us every day makes a decision regarding what someone says or does. Its really important in this forum about what people say. Now if you don't judge what others teach your a stick in the sea being tossed by every wave of doctrine.

Would you rather I call you an antagonist?
1. a person who is opposed to, struggles against, or competes with another; opponent; adversary. 2. the adversary of the hero or protagonist of a drama or other literary work: Iago is the antagonist of Othello.

The definition has the same meaning in Proverbs .....opponent..... advisory...

Fool
1. One who is deficient in judgment, sense, or understanding.2. One who acts unwisely on a given occasion:

It seems to be a better thing to call you a fool, the implication is you can't help it
On the other hand an antagonist has intention.
You take your pick

 

[Duckybill]

Didn't you ask me what was eating me? Your unScriptural doctrines.
I've been reading the thou shall not judge thread. Guess what everyone of us every day makes a decision regarding what someone says or does. Its really important in this forum about what people say. Now if you don't judge what others teach your a stick in the sea being tossed by every wave of doctrine.

Would you rather I call you an antagonist?
1. a person who is opposed to, struggles against, or competes with another; opponent; adversary. 2. the adversary of the hero or protagonist of a drama or other literary work: Iago is the antagonist of Othello.

The definition has the same meaning in Proverbs .....opponent..... advisory...

Fool
1. One who is deficient in judgment, sense, or understanding.2. One who acts unwisely on a given occasion:

It seems to be a better thing to call you a fool, the implication is you can't help it
On the other hand an antagonist has intention.
You take your pick

Since Hell fire doesn't bother you, it probably doesn't matter, at least for now. Will later though. It will bother BILLIONS later who it doesn't bother at present.