Once Saved Always Saved

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
Nonsense? Perhaps you think that your knowing God makes you deserving salvation?

Yes, it is nonsense to suppose one cannot turn from God after turning to him.

And, no; no one deserves salvation. It is by grace we are saved. You confuse initiation with ongoing responsibility.

To suppose that one can turn from God is in fact blindness and foolishness, if not selfishness or the fallen human nature. One who truly have knowledge of the amazing grace of God, devoid of selfishness, and filled with the love of God together with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, will not ever want nor imagine, to be separated from Christ. Those who still welcome the thought of rejecting Christ in disbelief only shows that they have not truly believed when they believed. Such is a sign of no true conversion in the heart, as was in the case of Paul.

No confusion here. There is no initiation. There is only true conversion.

Tong2020 said: ↑
I am curious, what do you make out to know God mean?

Good question for another thread.

Not really. You can tell us in brief here.

Tong
R3208

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
Not the basis at all. Here’s what Jesus said to them who will not enter “I never knew you”.

I see you don't understand what I said at all.

Explain then.

Tong
R3209

 

[Grailhunter]

Well, I've seen great fruit so I'll have to respectfully differ.

Begging the question--"full of evil" is an assumption I reject because they go to Christ the very method of righteousness under the New Covenant. How are they unrighteous then?

LOL Evil is evil....are you thinking Christ is going to put them through a washing machine with anti-evil detergent.
Some of this falls into the Calvinist camp....human puppets when alive....spiritual puppets when dead.
No what you are support is straight up evil and a doctrine of demons.

 

[Grailhunter]

To suppose that one can turn from God is in fact blindness and foolishness, if not selfishness or the fallen human nature. One who truly have knowledge of the amazing grace of God, devoid of selfishness, and filled with the love of God together with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, will not ever want nor imagine, to be separated from Christ. Those who still welcome the thought of rejecting Christ in disbelief only shows that they have not truly believed when they believed. Such is a sign of no true conversion in the heart, as was in the case of Paul.

No confusion here. There is no initiation. There is only true conversion.


Not really. You can tell us in brief here.

Tong
R3208

Enough is enough of the doctrines of demons. Repent of this evil belief.

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
Man is saved by grace, not through works, but through faith.

Faith = Belief + Action

Internal Work <> External Works

The problem with OSAS, is you suppose lip service, mere claiming belief is sufficient. Actual faith is required (prerequisite, actually) and this action involves an internal transformation, an internal work.

This is in agreement with Paul’s notion salvation not due to external ‘works’ so no man can brag.

And what is this internal work? Genuine and profound humility. And there is no humility in presuming Christ died on the cross so you can have a license to sin.

<<<Faith = Belief + Action>>>

Faith = belief, trust, confidence, reliance

Forget about what others’ idea of osas. I don’t speak for them.

Do you take faith as grace or what? I think this is very much relevant.

Tong
R3210

 

[GracePeace]

Hebrews is a very deep topic. There is no consciences as to who wrote it or who is was to. The word Hebrew or Jew does not appear anywhere except the title and I do not remember if they know where that came from. The subject matter would be highly offensive to the Jews. The book speaks a lot about Christ being a High Priest of the Order of Melchizedek which would be offensive to the Jews on a few levels. It is one of two books that uses the word enlighten....a few mysteries.

So drawing conclusions from it can be a little iffy.

Wouldn't those Jews' having converted and believed in Messiah already have offended the "ultra orthodox" Pharisees? LOL We know how Paul felt about his fellow Jewish believers before converting.

 

[GracePeace]

LOL Evil is evil....are you thinking Christ is going to put them through a washing machine with anti-evil detergent.
Some of this falls into the Calvinist camp....human puppets when alive....spiritual puppets when dead.
No what you are support is straight up evil and a doctrine of demons.

Well, I think if you spend a little more time in Scripture you'll come around. LOL

 

[Grailhunter]

Well, I think if you spend a little more time in Scripture you'll come around. LOL

I assure you I will never come around to Satan's way of thinking.
Repent of your evil beliefs.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

You want to destroy me for quoting you? lol

It was a joke....

 

[GracePeace]

I assure you I will never come around to Satan's way of thinking.
Repent of your evil beliefs.

That's exactly what I mean--thinking that people who see things differently cannot know God.
You'll understand that that isn't the case.

Yes, their inability to correctly understand is flabberghasting but that is separate from their knowledge of God.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Sorry folks, I can't go along with this! I know it's a huge argument but the scripture makes it clear that man can lose his salvation through unbelief, that is, no longer believing in Christ for whatever reason and just walking away from Him.

This is what blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is all about, as we shall see from scripture! The Holy Spirit is humiliated by dwelling in a person who now rejects Christ!

There were some who had accepted Christ as their Saviour but now have gone back to temple worship (Judaism) and renounced Christ. This is what is happening in Hebrews 6.

But before we go there, I would like to say that OSAS came from the Calvinist teaching that the chosen of God cannot resist His grace. They cannot resist receiving it or resist losing it. Therefore they cannot lose their salvation. I intend to prove this is not biblical!

Hebrews 6:4-6

"For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,

And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame."

As we see here, they were "made partakers of the Holy Spirit" and fell away, in this case, going back to temple worship, thereby rejecting Christ.

They have committed the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit and can never be renewed unto repentance. But the thing is, they will never want to be renewed unto repentance in Christ.

So if you are ever concerned that you may have committed the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, that is proof you haven't! You will not be concerned of it because you are no longer concerned about Christ.

Well, I personally like Calvin, and do believe that once a man is truly saved, he cannot become unsaved. Can "Christians" fall away, and be lost? Yes. But not all "Christians" are truly saved. Peter exhorted Christians to "make sure their calling."

2 Peter 1.10 Therefore, my brothers and sisters, make every effort to confirm your calling and election. For if you do these things, you will never stumble.

Yes, Christians can be filled with the Holy Spirit, and believe in and teach the truths of God's living word. They can even be prophets. However, to be saved, one must be "born again"--not just experience the gifts of the Holy Spirit.

Judas Iscariot experienced the power of the Holy Spirit, and Jesus considered him a child of Satan. All 12 disciples of Jesus were sent out, two by two, to perform miracles as a sign of the impending Kingdom of Messiah. I feel sorrow for the bloke who had to share company with Judas on this mission from Jesus!

So it's clear that even those who experience the powers of the age to come still may not have gotten truly saved. To be "born again" means to give up your life on this earth for a new life from heaven. We swear our devotion to Christ, instead of to ourselves. Even if we backslide, or fail at times, when we truly choose in our heart to make Christ our lord, we are saved. Period.

It remains important for us, however, to continue walking with him in righteousness, so that we are not ashamed as his Coming.

1 John 2.And now, dear children, continue in him, so that when he appears we may be confident and unashamed before him at his coming.

 

[Grailhunter]

That's exactly what I mean--thinking that people who see things differently cannot know God.
You'll understand that that isn't the case.

Yes, their inability to correctly understand is flabberghasting but that is separate from their knowledge of God.

You know you cannot see Satan, but he has footprints that you can see.
I am multi-denominational so insinuating that I am not tolerant to different beliefs would just be funny.
But on the other hand I give evil, no tolerance, no mercy, and no quarter.
There is entirely too much evil slithering around here.
Repent of your evil beliefs.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

When you say OSAS you stating the damnable form....Satan would love for people to believe that they can sin all they want and still go to heaven. It is a doctrine that plays into his hand. Could Satan come up with a better doctrine himself. People sinning all they want, no morality because it just does not matter, heaven bound no matter what evil you are....

How can heaven be a reward for good people and the abode of God if it is full of evil?

I sin all I want everyday.....Problem is, I don’t WANT to. Get a New Heart and you won't want to either...

Because you still have an old Adamic Nature within you that is “ not subject to the Laws Of God and neither indeed can be” —-you will stumble here and there in your Christian Walk..... Grace covers those sins from a Salvation standpoint, but even though they are forgiven and forgotten by God as far as you getting into Heaven is concerned, you will most likely be chastised here on Earth to get you back in line, just as we Chastise “ Our” Children for their own good , impetus for that “ correction” being Love......

Btw.....Heaven is NOT a “ Reward “ for “good people” — that thing does not exist.Heaven , like Salvation itself, is a Gift, Given to Undeserving Sinners that got there NOT By their “morality” but by their Faith in the Shed Blood Of Jesus , Plus NOTHING.

 

[kcnalp]

It was a joke....

I get it. Like OSAS.

 

[kcnalp]

I sin all I want everyday.....Problem is, I don’t WANT to. Get a New Heart and you won't want to either...

IOW, you can sin all day, every day and still believe you're saved like a good OSASer! But you believe unbelievers go to Heaven, also.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

The whole book of Galatians is about the false gospel of 'works salvation' → justification by works.

Works like “Lucky Repentance” and the absolute avoidance of ” Willful Sins “ in your life....
The latter is “ true” because the Blood Of Jesus is too weak to cover them.Dont believe that lie—— it is Utter Hogwash.....

The inexcusable ignorance in regard to Hebrews 10 has ship- wrecked many a man’s Faith....that is the reward one gets for being stiff- necked.....check out the A Z Tozer video or google “Rene Roland” or “ Andrew Farley” or go to this site—- “ escape to reality” and put an end to needless worry and confusion in regard to these “ scary” verses that Legalist, Tares and Religionists use to try to keep you in Bondage ....” misery loves company”.......

 

[Grailhunter]

Works like “Lucky Repentance” and the absolute avoidance of ” Willful Sins “ in your life....
The latter is “ true” because the Blood Of Jesus is too weak to cover them.Dont believe that lie—— it is Utter Hogwash.....

The inexcusable ignorance in regard to Hebrews 10 has ship- wrecked many a man’s Faith....that is the reward one gets for being stiff- necked.....check out the A Z Tozer video or google “Rene Roland” or “ Andrew Farley” or go to this site—- “ escape to reality” and put an end to needless worry and confusion in regard to these “ scary” verses that Legalist, Tares and Religionists use to try to keep you in Bondage ....” misery loves company”.......

The stench of Satan is all over you! A belief from hell itself.

 

[GracePeace]

You know you cannot see Satan, but he has footprints that you can see.
I am multi-denominational so insinuating that I am not tolerant to different beliefs would just be funny.
But on the other hand I give evil, no tolerance, no mercy, and no quarter.
There is entirely too much evil slithering around here.
Repent of your evil beliefs.

1. I am not sure I would agree satan can't be seen. Other angels have manifested themselves visibly, so why couldn't he?

2. Yeah, actually, I will do a lot more than insinuate : you are erring, and you will know that in time.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

As Christ said, Satan get behind me!
It is not for which you do....how would we know....it is what you propose others can do and still go to heaven. You and Satan are a danger to those that are innocent...those that would come to Christ and change their lives to the Christian walk, the Christian way, but you propose, do not change a thing and keep on doing what you been doing, it does not matter you will still go to heaven. Dirty filth! Repent of this evilness!

Lol— you so Crazy! ( as the kids say ) ...I also reported you....calm Down,Dude—- don’t get your panties in a bunch! Lol....

Christianity ain't about “ changing” .....even Hitler or Stalin could have “ Turned over a New Leaf”....

TRUE Christianity is about “ turning to God” and Trusting HIM to NOT “ Change the “outside of the cup” , but to get to the ROOT of the Sin problem by TRANSFORMING the “INSIDE of the Cup”

Yep , no doubt about it—- man is capable of great change and he can make himself more “ Moral” ....unfortunately , God is not looking for “ moral” men....

He is looking for DEAD Men—— “ DEAD in trespasses and sins”......He Wants to take them and impart “New Life” into them.....changing them from the inside out.....

Man can try to beat the outside of the cup into Submission— he can change.For awhile.Only GOD can Transform the “ inside of the Cup” ......and THAT is what is most pleasing to Him.....Everything else can be positive or negative , but they are all just “Dead Works” in the final analysis......

Any Obedience is better than Disobedience, but if your “ Obedience” is not a Natural One, one That is Driven by an Engine called “Love” , which came from Resting in the Gospel Of Grace ....a “ Rest” that comes from knowing that you are Totally Forgiven for ALL of your sins.......
You’re just kinda “spinning your wheels”.....it’s better than nothing, but it ain’t impressing God....

In the End , God is not so much interested in what YOU do—— He is interested in what He can do THROuGH you....

This kinda stuff ain't for those on a diet of Milk.....Bottle Feeders will not “ get it” .....we must endure these types , but we don’t let them determine Doctrine and try to rule the Church—- OR Forums...

 

[Grailhunter]

1. I am not sure I would agree satan can't be seen. Other angels have manifested themselves visibly, so why couldn't he?

2. Yeah, actually, I will do a lot more than insinuate : you are erring, and you will know that in time.

You people have taken advantage of the good nature of Christians to try to help you. What is this post 5040. I commend their good nature and patience, but you have used all that to promote the doctrine of devils.
Repent! Repent! Repent!