So, are Daniel 7:25 and Amos 8:11-12 related in prophecy?

[Randy Kluth]

Well then I'm making one stride forward I guess...

Yes, how you come across spiritually is more important than how perfect we are in some of our beliefs. The important doctrines matter. Opinions on peripheral matters matter less. Make sure to update my comments--I make a boatload of mistakes, and then reread later--then I edit after the fact. ;)

 

[The Parson]

Yes, how you come across spiritually is more important than how perfect we are in some of our beliefs. The important doctrines matter. Opinions on peripheral matters matter less. Make sure to update my comments--I make a boatload of mistakes, and then reread later--then I edit after the fact. ;)

That happens to me too Randy... To err is human...

 

[Randy Kluth]

Whereas this has very much to do with eschatology, it more has to do with the resulting phenomena of the prophecy directly related to the understanding of eschatology. And I said God was allowing, not doing didn't I??? Please read the post to CadyandZoe I just made...

A last day revival thing? Maybe... A rising tide of antichrist thing? Most assuredly. I know that despite the connotations, my faith has been bolstered. Believe it or not...

I'm much more concerned about the moral changes and the changes in ethical standards going on in Western society than in small changes in word use. However, when I see fashions change regularly under the influence of spiritual darkness of course it concerns me. Over the last several decades, young people's fashions have regularly changed, and they all seem to start from the street and in spiritual darkness.

I remember there was a trend in rebellion against government and society (the 60s), a glue-sniffing trend, a suicide trend, a satanist trend, a vampire trend, a zombie trend. Remember the punk movement--I couldn't believe kids wanted to randomly stick pins in their faces and bodies! I couldn't believe kids wants to kill themselves. I did understand the fascination with drugs because I went there myself. There was a trend towards Eastern religion. And now there's anarchists!

All of this comes from the dark side, a fascination with the occult, and a hate for conservative religion. Whether it is an extreme focus on material pleasure and wealth, or a complete hatred for life and things, it is the dark side that influences changes in how words are used and what trends become the focus of movies, books, and news articles.

This is what concerns me. It wouldn't surprise me if the liberal trend away from conventional Christian mores causes more of a resistance to bedrock biblical principles. So if you find something that I find significance in the changes in Bible versions, let me know?

I must say that it does challenge my faith in some respects when I see evil winning in our society. It doesn't cause me to lose faith in God--only faith in what I've believed God will do in some of these occasions.

For example, I thought God would bring judgment to the wicked Democrats over the shenanigans of the last election. They clearly interfered with our US election process, and then accused Trump of the same thing! Impeaching a President, under questionable circumstances, is in itself a tampering with a duly elected US President!

But God has let evil triumph to some degree. I believe He allows evil because evil can't be judged unless it is allowed to commit crimes. And then, instead of enabling evil to triumph, God just uses the time allotted to evil people to "gather them together" for judgment all at one time.

 

[The Parson]

You said you have "many examples"--I have yet to see *one* significant change! If so, then no case has been made yet for your claim, that word changes are taking place, watering down Scriptural truth, if indeed that's what you're trying to say.

Really now... Check this out. It's a passage I've preached countless times. 2 Corinthians 11:4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him. (KJV as it is today)

Now dog gone it, I know dog gone well that we aren't to be listening to someone bringing another gospel, or another spirit, or other preaching that goes against what Paul was teaching and preaching. He wouldn't have told us to bear with that guy. Yet that's what he (Paul) says in the King James now. But I know well he (Paul) DIDN'T say that at all, just from my personal notes...

Did I mention "dog gone it"??? He said: AS IT WAS: 2 Corinthians 11:4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with me. (KJV) The first place I found this was in my notes. And then I went to digging and below is what I came up with...

Please note: that verbiage is quintessentially King James. This I believe, was enough to wet my curiosity at least.

 

[The Parson]

I must say that it does challenge my faith in some respects when I see evil winning in our society. It doesn't cause me to lose faith in God--only faith in what I've believed God will do in some of these occasions.

That's just "my" point too. People want to create God in their own image, and believe what they want to believe. God is saying to the world, OK, you want a reprobate mind, SO BE IT, I'll leave you to it!!!

 

[Randy Kluth]

Really now... Check this out. It's a passage I've preached countless times. 2 Corinthians 11:4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him. (KJV as it is today)

Now dog gone it, I know dog gone well that we aren't to be listening to someone bringing another gospel, or another spirit, or other preaching that goes against what Paul was teaching and preaching. He wouldn't have told us to bear with that guy. Yet that's what he (Paul) says in the King James now. But I know well he (Paul) DIDN'T say that at all, just from my personal notes...

Did I mention "dog gone it"??? He said: AS IT WAS: 2 Corinthians 11:4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with me. (KJV) The first place I found this was in my notes. And then I went to digging and below is what I came up with...

Please note: that verbiage is quintessentially King James. This I believe, was enough to wet my curiosity at least.

This is the thing, brother. I have the KJV the NIV and the Greek right here in my Greek Interlinear, and they all match up well. I don't see any significant differences, as you do! Here is how they read:

KJV: 4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached,
or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received,
or another gospel, which ye have not accepted,
ye might well bear with him.

NIV: 4 For if someone comes to you and preaches a Jesus other than the Jesus we preached,
or if you receive a different spirit from the Spirit you received,
or a different gospel from the one you accepted,
you put up with it easily enough.

What is the significant difference between these versions that concern you and make you say, "Dog gone it!" ;)
But I do see that your own reference has someone saying it differently in the last clause, "ye might well bear with me." The clause should read "ye might well bear with him."

So part of my problem with this has been, I can't see where you're getting these versions, or statements. I don't know if they're a Bible version, or some preacher mis-quoting the text? All I'm saying is that both versions that I would personally consider reliable, the KJV and NIV, have the same words and the same meaning.

In the Greek, the last clause is ambiguous, and the reader must decide the meaning based on the context, which is quite obvious. In all languages, it is unnecessarily repetitive to reassert the parties when it is already understood who is meant.

In this case, kathos anechesthe refers to enduring something, I believe? But I'm not very knowledgeable about the Greek.
ἀνέχομαι | billmounce.com

 

[Randy Kluth]

That's just "my" point too. People want to create God in their own image, and believe what they want to believe. God is saying to the world, OK, you want a reprobate mind, SO BE IT, I'll leave you to it!!!

Yes, but let's not be too harsh here. We *all,* as Christians, make mistakes. We tend to want to believe God will do something our way, and then find God does something differently. We learn this way.

It isn't all just about being "reprobate," but rather, about being "fallen." We're *all* fallen.

What concerns me is when people double down on their errors, and resist correction. That is indeed cause for concern!

 

[The Parson]

So part of my problem with this has been, I can't see where you're getting these versions, or statements. I don't know if they're a Bible version, or some preacher mis-quoting the text?

Okey Dokey Randy.

 

[Oseas]

That's just "my" point too. People want to create God in their own image, and believe what they want to believe. God is saying to the world, OK, you want a reprobate mind, SO BE IT, I'll leave you to it!!!

No, it is not true, absolutely. GOD is not saying to the world what you say He is saying. It is fake. Its a false testimony. Who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him?

 

[The Parson]

Ti:1:13: This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith;
Ti:1:14: Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth.
Ti:1:15: Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled.
Ti:1:16: They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

 

[Oseas]

Ti:1:13: This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith;
Ti:1:14: Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth.
Ti:1:15: Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled.
Ti:1:16: They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

Ecclesiastes 12:v.10 to 14

10 The preacher sought to find out acceptable words: and that which was written was upright, even words of truth.

11 The words of the wise are as goads, and as nails fastened by the masters of assemblies, which are given from one Shepherd.

12 And further, by these, my son, be admonished: of making many books there is no end; and much study is a weariness of the flesh.

13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.

14 For God shall bring every work into Judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.



Now try to interpret and understand this: John 1:v.1 and Matt. 11:v.27

John 1:v.1 ... the Word is GOD.(Yeah, the Word is GOD, invisible GOD, He himself, He who was made flesh, the Father. Great mystery, no?)

Matthew 11:v.27 ...(but), no man knoweth the Father (the Word); save (if not) the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal Him.

Where is the visible GOD? Where can we see Him in Person? But this, of course, only and only to whomsoever the Son reveal
Him, if not .... never will know GOD, who is the Word. Yeah, the Word is GOD.

Many have heard to speak of GOD, and believe that He exists, but know not GOD.

James 2:v.19 - Thou believes that there is one God; thou does well: the devils also believe,...

 

[Gary Urban]

Anyone care to convince a old preacher that these Bible changes aren't really happening???

Daniel 7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out (I distinctly remember vex, and not wear out) the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

Amos said: 8:11 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord God, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the Lord: 12 And they shall wander from sea to sea, and from the north even to the east, (I also remember it being south, not east) they shall run to and fro to seek the word of the Lord, and shall not find it.

And the lion and lamb controversy, how about that?

Exert From: Dispensational Truth II, Pre-Millennialism, by Clarence Larkin
Originally published: 1918
Chapter 2
Pre-Millennialism

I've got tons more. Just looking for someone to talk me out of it.

The lion and the lamb speaks of the new incorruptible order .The old corrupted creation has vanished

I would ofer. It is leading up to the last day when the everlasting kingdom will come.God will have destroyed all kings the abomination of desolation.

Deuteronomy 7:24 And he shall deliver their kings into thine hand, and thou shalt destroy their name from under heaven: there shall no man be able to stand before thee, until thou have destroyed them.

Amos speaks of a famine for hearing the gospel that I would think represents the killing or silencing the two prophets. Moses to represent the letter of the law that kills and Elisa to represent the unseen power that heals. The two witnesses of God that make up the one witness of God, the witness greater than that of men. The law and the prophets, the word of God, they will be silenced for a short while the deceiver will be loosed again to deceive all the nations that a person must become a Jew and the rebuilding of a Temple . Lucifer fell from deceiving all the nations spoken of in Revelation 20. When the veil was rent there was no Jewish man sitting in the Holy of Holies a place reserved for our unseen Holy Father. The time of 1st century reformation had come destroying kings in Israel. Again the abomination of desolation.

 

[Waiting on him]

The Church of the Lord JESUS X The Church of the Devil

Church of the Lord JESUS

JESUS named 12 apostles to preach the Gospel of God's Kingdom, these twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. JESUS gave them power against unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease.

JESUS said: I will build my Church;

JESUS said: The gates of hell will not prevail. Hallelujah!;

The Church, the body of JESUS, began to be formed after His death, it is evident, as He said: I will build my Church. The Church of the Lord started on the Day of Pentecost, fifty days after Easter, when Jesus died and rose again. The book of Acts details the beginning of the Church and its miraculous spread through the power of the Holy Spirit. About 10 days after Jesus ascended back to heaven (Acts 1: 9), the Holy Spirit was poured out on 120 of Jesus' followers who waited and prayed, grounded in the promises of JESUS (Acts 1:15 and 2 : 1-4).


Before His ascension, JESUS said to His disciples: "All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen." Matt.28:18-20.


JESUS provided great growth for his Church through the Apostles and disciples, confirming the preaching of the true believers with signs and wonders that followed with the preaching of the Gospel (without Him nothing would be done).


Since then, the headquarter of the Roman Empire was troubled, and shuddered, and shaken, and shocked under the power of God through His Word preached by the Apostles and disciples of JESUS, and by emergent churches, mainly those seven churches mentioned in Revelation; the only exception was the apostate church of Rome, that was denominated Catholic church, linked to the devilish Roman Empire, the fourth satanic kingdom strong as iron-Daniel 2:v.40, as is showed in the statue of Nebuchadnezzar.



The pseudo christian church - church of Devil - The body of Satan

Since then Satan, as an angel of light, developed in parallel an imitation of the Lord's Church within the Roman Empire, and the first step was to corrupt the Church of the Lord JESUS that there was in Rome; his plan was a success, and so he created a Ministry, and constituted Ministers - ministers of Satan - and named them as "apostles". - 2 Corinthians 11:v.13-15


So, Satan, by his spirit, gave birth to an imitation of the true Church of the Lord, and Satan founded his "christian" church, yeah, his "christian" church, a false christian church, now his body, and denominated it by the name of Catholic church; so, definitively the former Lord's Church in Rome, which apostatized of the faith and fell in the hands of the Devil by complete, became the Great Whore, the cradle of Antichrist among the primitive Churches, leaded and guided by the Beast of sea - the Pope, the Papacy, "et caterva", and later was called Roman Catholic Church, it until today. THUS, the "gates of the hell" said by JESUS was opened, to prevent the expansion of the Lord's churches.


If we compare the growth of the "christian" church of Devil with the true Christian Church of the LORD, we can see that the false "christian" church of Devil, the body of Satan, grew much much more than the Church of our LORD Jesus. It because they killed the Apostles of the LORD besides countless disciples of JESUS, and above all because it would be impossible to compete with the opened gates of hell, the Roman Catholic Church, the Great Whore, leaded and guided by Satan.

But there is a sharp Sword, the Sword of the Lord, and with this Sword one of the seven heads of the false and satanic "christian" church of Rome, called Roman Catholic Church, will be wounded to death.



In the name of the LORD Jesus Christ

If the trumpet give an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself to the battle?
1 Cor.14:v.8

The Word is GOD

Uhhhh, you do realize that Protestants are merely protesting Catholics?

 

[The Parson]

Uhhhh, you do realize that Protestants are merely protesting Catholics?

Sometimes you actually post some things that make a bit of sense...

 

[Waiting on him]

Sometimes you actually post some things that make a bit of sense...

It only seems to happen, when I’m not making any effort?

 

[Oseas]

Uhhhh, you do realize that Protestants are merely protesting Catholics?

We must be focused in the Word of GOD. The Word is GOD. It is written: Revelation 19:v.19 to 21:

19 And I saw the Beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies (the followers of the Beast), gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.

20 And the Beast was taken, and with him the false prophet(Revelation 13:v.11 to 14) that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the Beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were (will be) cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

21 And the remnant were slain with the Sword of him that sat upon the horse, which Sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

What prevails is the Word of GOD.

THE WORD IS GOD

 

[Oseas]

Revelation 2:v. 25 to 29

25 But that which ye have already hold fast till I come.

26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.

28 And I will give him the morning star.

29 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Okey Dokey Randy.

I'm not sure that was an answer, but okay.

 

[The Parson]

I'm not sure that was an answer, but okay.

It's the only answer I can give you Randy, as I don't seem to be making myself clear. It must be me.

 

[Waiting on him]

26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

Soooo, who is this referring to?