Did Charismatic movement injure Church?

[Paul Christensen]

If it’s heresy then God is the heretic, because Philippians 2 is unequivocal.

So you are in unity with the Mormons who believe the same heresy.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Hey Charismatic Lady, you need to check what you hate and what you love. This is why we pray for God to teach us to hate the things he hates and love the things he loves instead of going on our own bents.
Much of the things you defend are things that worship a different Jesus than of the Bible btw.

Seeing as you didn't say what I believe that is a different Jesus I will ignore this as just a false accusation against the brethren.

 

[CharismaticLady]

That's reasonable. The problem is how it appeared to many and how they interpreted the action. I have three issues with it though:
1. They gave the appearance of evil.
2. They used the technique of naming and claiming.
3. They used a loud repetitious incantation, in spite of Jesus instruction not to be repetitious as the pagans are.

If there was an appearance of evil, it was how the video was edited and mocked. Do you subscribe to that bozo?

 

[CharismaticLady]

Going by her "performance" in the clip where she couldn't remember her role. Going by her being said to be a pastor and prophetess.

And mostly because someone thought blending Gandalf fantasy, which was poorly scripted, because if you're striking a stage with a LotR staff, in a rite intending to vanquish Racism from Bethel church, you don't chant, "you shall not pass!", when your intention is to have Racism pass from the midst of Bethel members.
Bethel Church's Use of <em>Lord of the Rings</em> Staff to End Racism Sparks Debate

Bethel Church Casts out Demon of Racism with Wizard Staff and Incantations


And it was.
However, I would suggest that experience and wisdom gleaned through the holy spirit is removed from any likeness to the Bethel Gandalf act.

I am not going to discuss this any further because I wasn't there. If people want to attack Bethel, that is up to them. I want no part in it.

 

[teamventure]

Seeing as you didn't say what I believe that is a different Jesus I will ignore this as just a false accusation against the brethren.

I was puting your thinking into check when you said you hate when someone says something isnt of God. So everything should be accepted as Godly even if it looks demonic?
You hating or loving something does not validate it or invalidate it unless God feels the same way.
You have defended using a staff and repeating a mantra as well as barking like dogs.

 

[CharismaticLady]

I was puting your thinking into check when you said you hate when someone says something isnt of God. So everything should be accepted as Godly even if it looks demonic?
You hating or loving something does not validate it or invalidate it unless God feels the same way.
You have defended using a staff and repeating a mantra as well as barking like dogs.

You don't know me at all to make such an uninformed judgment. You're just being ugly, and showing major ignorance.

 

[Paul Christensen]

If there was an appearance of evil, it was how the video was edited and mocked. Do you subscribe to that bozo?

This is the whole unedited video:

 

[Curtis]

The word unknown used in that chapter was added. It is only unknown to them that look to wonders that produce doubt (no faith) as the end of a matter.

It was added because the clear context of the passage is that it’s an unknown tongue, else it wouldn’t NEED INTERPRETED, just as they added the word UNKNOWN to 1 Corinthians 14:2, because the passage says “NO MAN ever understands that type of tongue, since it’s the spirit speaking mysteries to God”.

That fact shouldn’t even need to be stated, because it’s glaringly obvious.

 

[Curtis]

So you are in unity with the Mormons who believe the same heresy.

.Call Kenosis a heresy all you want - it’s God’s word that you’re calling heresy, because it’s crystal clear from Philippians 2:6-7 that it’s biblical fact.

 

[teamventure]

You don't know me at all to make such an uninformed judgment. You're just being ugly, and showing major ignorance.

Ignorance is believing your way of thinking is right even if you disagree with God.

 

[marksman]

No, this isn't pagan. Pagan is an old English, I think, word derived from Pagani, and meaning, country dweller.
The Pagani,pagan people, being in what we would today call the sticks, were not as aware of changes and new practices occuring in more populated and busy areas. What we'd call , old cities.

So, conventional practices or traditions by country folk would seem the norm. While those in the busy more populated areas, "cities", had evolved from conventional practices to more efficient modern ones.

Here is a clip of that "rite" without the commentary.

This isn't paganism. This is modernism entering the church. That's far worse.

Why did the black guy speaking have to wear a white sheet around his shoulders?

 

[Josho]

No, this isn't pagan. Pagan is an old English, I think, word derived from Pagani, and meaning, country dweller.
The Pagani,pagan people, being in what we would today call the sticks, were not as aware of changes and new practices occuring in more populated and busy areas. What we'd call , old cities.

So, conventional practices or traditions by country folk would seem the norm. While those in the busy more populated areas, "cities", had evolved from conventional practices to more efficient modern ones.

Here is a clip of that "rite" without the commentary.

This isn't paganism. This is modernism entering the church. That's far worse.

Strange staff in that video.
I just had to do that pun.
But yeah strange stuff.

 

[Gary Urban]

It was added because the clear context of the passage is that it’s an unknown tongue, else it wouldn’t NEED INTERPRETED, just as they added the word UNKNOWN to 1 Corinthians 14:2, because the passage says “NO MAN ever understands that type of tongue, since it’s the spirit speaking mysteries to God”.

That fact shouldn’t even need to be stated, because it’s glaringly obvious.

God the author is the interpreter it’s glaringly obvious. Not the witness of men as private interpretations.

You forgot to look to the foundation of the doctrine of the tongues of God called prophecy (Isaiah 28) .It is the law spoken of in 1 Corinthians 14: 21-22

The Holy Spirit as the tongue of God brings His interpretation .If its "unknown" its unknown to those in whom the sign points to. . they are the ones that make senseless sounds and fall backward indicating they are slain in the spirit.

I can offer it again

Note. . .Men who believe prophecy or the tongue of God ( green)

Note . . .men who have no faith needed to believe prophecy ( purple)

Note . . the law not subject to change as after an oral tradition (red)

1 Corinthians 14:21 In the law ((Isaiah 28)) it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord. Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.

Who are tongues a sign for? (it’s glaringly obvious) Which ones does the Spirit of judgement apply to as those who do fall back slain in the Spirit . Green or purple? Jesus said. . yet for all that will they not hear me,

 

[CharismaticLady]

Ignorance is believing your way of thinking is right even if you disagree with God.

I don't disagree with God.

 

[CharismaticLady]

If it’s heresy then God is the heretic, because Philippians 2 is unequivocal.

To be clear, do you believe in Nestorianism or Kenosis?

cc: @Paul Christensen

 

[Gary Urban]

Prophecy will cease with the coming of that which is perfect.
Jesus, in his second coming.

Bible Gateway passage: 1 Corinthians 13 - New English Translation

God still speaks to his children as well.

Hi thanks for the reply.

No one said God does not speak to his children .The qiuestion I would ask is. . Do you need more than that which is written? If so how much is enough?

What we had as in part up until the last Chapter Revelation. Today we have the perfect, complete.

Jesus knew beforehand that some would feel their intimacy with the Holy Father leaves them wondering and therefore they would bypass the warning not to add or subtract from the whole .

Those elected to salvation will not be deceived (impossible) they hear the warning and would never try and add or subtract from the perfect.

It defines plagiarism to them who ignore the warning.

It is going on 2000 years and it’s still the last chapter in the Bible.

Mathew 23:22-26 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened. Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. Behold, I have told you before. Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.

Why destroy our safeguard ?

 

[Pearl]

I've only just seen this thread and haven't read all the posts but in answer to the OP using the 'charismatic' gifts, the gifts of the Holy Spirit, can only strengthen the Church not harm it.

 

[CharismaticLady]

No one said God does not speak to his children .The question I would ask is. . Do you need more than that which is written? If so how much is enough?

Personally, I ask for clarification on theologies I've heard all my life that I can't find in scripture. The answers I've gotten are true, but you have to read the whole New Testament to find the truth woven in.

So I would ask, why do people make up theories/theology that don't exist?

 

[Pearl]

No one said God does not speak to his children .The qiuestion I would ask is. . Do you need more than that which is written? If so how much is enough?

God says a lot more to me than is written in the bible. He speaks to me in a variety of ways and shows me new things in a number of ways. I would worry if I wasn't hearing from God in those other ways.

 

[Amazed@grace]

Hi thanks for the reply.

No one said God does not speak to his children .The qiuestion I would ask is. . Do you need more than that which is written? If so how much is enough?

What we had as in part up until the last Chapter Revelation. Today we have the perfect, complete.

Jesus knew beforehand that some would feel their intimacy with the Holy Father leaves them wondering and therefore they would bypass the warning not to add or subtract from the whole .

Those elected to salvation will not be deceived (impossible) they hear the warning and would never try and add or subtract from the perfect.

It defines plagiarism to them who ignore the warning.

It is going on 2000 years and it’s still the last chapter in the Bible.

Mathew 23:22-26 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened. Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. Behold, I have told you before. Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.

Why destroy our safeguard ?

Destroy our safeguard?
God inspired the bible to come into being so that we would always have his authoritative word to guide us in and through his light. Because all Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching,for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; so that the people of God may be adequate and equipped for every good work.:)

Job 12. God speaks to us through his creation, and unto us, his blessed created ones.
I see the real safeguard as that within us, holy spirit, that insures we never forget we are safe and guarded in the hand of Jesus. And no one will ever take us from that safe place.
With God inside us, and holding us in his hand, there by our faith through his grace, we are living in the safeguard of God's promise. :)
And Amen to that.