Did Charismatic movement injure Church?

[Pathfinder7]

Bethel Church Janitor Getting Real Sick Of All This Gold Dust

*Babylon Bee is entirely satire. Just adding the article to interject a little levity.

Good timing..
- A sense of humor might be helpful.
---
I like the Babylon Bee..

 

[Amazed@grace]

A staff? Are you serious? That's pagan? Remember Moses's staff?

Sorry, but I would like to see an unedited, less mocking witness to this. It looks like fake news to me.

What I would say to stay away from is that guy narrating. He's a mocker. Stay clear of anyone mocking other's worship. The black woman is an actress.

No, this isn't pagan. Pagan is an old English, I think, word derived from Pagani, and meaning, country dweller.
The Pagani,pagan people, being in what we would today call the sticks, were not as aware of changes and new practices occuring in more populated and busy areas. What we'd call , old cities.

So, conventional practices or traditions by country folk would seem the norm. While those in the busy more populated areas, "cities", had evolved from conventional practices to more efficient modern ones.

Here is a clip of that "rite" without the commentary.

This isn't paganism. This is modernism entering the church. That's far worse.

 

[Hidden In Him]

Sorry, but I would like to see an unedited, less mocking witness to this.

I would agree. Highly immature, and acting as if he's funny when he's not. No better than the people he is mocking really.

About the video, I think it's a sad state of affairs, but nothing new for the modern church. They don't want to give themselves to incessant prayer and seek God for real power and authority. They just want to play church with a stick and appeal to a movie based on Luciferian occultism.

I don't really judge it. I just ignore it and move on. As Jesus said, "they have their reward."

 

[CharismaticLady]

Oh come on! It was nothing like Moses' staff. It was a direct copy of Gandalf's and the pagan rant comes right out of the pages of Leo Tolstoy's book and from the mouth of a pagan character. It was exactly the type of useless repetition that Jesus spoke about when He said to avoid the useless repetitions of the pagans. I just cannot see how copying pagan chants while holding a pagan staff can glorify Christ with any stretch of the imagination. I just wonder what Jesus these people are following. Certainly not the Jesus of the Gospels.

You know me. I hate it when someone says someone is worshiping a "different" Jesus than in the Bible. Or maybe you don't. I've said often that I've heard preachers on Christian radio saying that all the time about Mormons, or JW's, when I could say the same thing about denominations that do not believe Jesus took away sin, only covered it and paid the penalty for us, because we will "always be in the flesh and commit willful sins." Not even Mormons and JW's believe that heresy.

The visiting black actress is the one that said the staff was like Gandalf's staff, but she is in show business and so used a parallel to a movie scene. I can imagine them seeing the staff and only thinking of Moses. I sure would. I can understand them not wanting to embarrass her, Paul. They were agreeing with her fight against racism, that's all. Actually, the apostle Paul did the same type of things with the Jews, doing things that were no longer to be practiced.

cc: @Hidden In Him (my response to you too)

 

[Pearl]

??? You wait for Him to tell you what to pray? I don't understand.

We are told to pray according to God's will and we can only do that if we sit down and ask him what he wants us to pray. Sometimes just praying in tongues without the understand and sometimes as he puts his own thoughts into our spirits. Before we pray we need to listen.

 

[Amazed@grace]

You know me. I hate it when someone says someone is worshiping a "different" Jesus than in the Bible. Or maybe you don't. I've said often that I've heard preachers on Christian radio saying that all the time about Mormons, or JW's, when I could say the same thing about denominations that do not believe Jesus took away sin, only covered it and paid the penalty for us, because we will "always be in the flesh and commit willful sins." Not even Mormons and JW's believe that heresy.

The visiting black actress is the one that said the staff was like Gandalf's staff, but she is in show business and so used a parallel to a movie scene. I can imagine them seeing the staff and only thinking of Moses. I sure would. I can understand them not wanting to embarrass her, Paul. They were agreeing with her fight against racism, that's all. Actually, the apostle Paul did the same type of things with the Jews, doing things that were no longer to be practiced.

cc: @Hidden In Him (my response to you too)

I think the mistake that was made in the Gsnddlf rite was two fold on Bethel's part.
First, that they allowed a self identified (bad) actor to impart a conflation of a Tolkien fantasy, with an invocation to God against the sin of racism.

The second mistake, as I see it, is to invent theater in this manner and for a cause that should not exist in Bethel church in the first place; racism.
When Racism is at issue in any church it should be addressed in a serious manner. Not in a theatric conflation borrowing from fantasy to make a plea to God.

 

[CharismaticLady]

I think the mistake that was made in the Gsnddlf rite was two fold on Bethel's part.
First, that they allowed a self identified (bad) actor to impart a conflation of a Tolkien fantasy, with an invocation to God against the sin of racism.

The second mistake, as I see it, is to invent theater in this manner and for a cause that should not exist in Bethel church in the first place; racism.
When Racism is at issue in any church it should be addressed in a serious manner. Not in a theatric conflation borrowing from fantasy to make a plea to God.

Well, I am going to always give someone the benefit of the doubt. I don't know the mind or situation there that day. Why did you say Marlyne Barrett was a bad actor?

I remember visiting with my mormon friend to her church, and they served their version of communion. I didn't know what to do as they passed the water and the leavened bread loaf. I cried out to God silently and immediately He said, "do not offend." And the knowledge that it was okay.

 

[Paul Christensen]

You know me. I hate it when someone says someone is worshiping a "different" Jesus than in the Bible. Or maybe you don't. I've said often that I've heard preachers on Christian radio saying that all the time about Mormons, or JW's, when I could say the same thing about denominations that do not believe Jesus took away sin, only covered it and paid the penalty for us, because we will "always be in the flesh and commit willful sins." Not even Mormons and JW's believe that heresy.

The visiting black actress is the one that said the staff was like Gandalf's staff, but she is in show business and so used a parallel to a movie scene. I can imagine them seeing the staff and only thinking of Moses. I sure would. I can understand them not wanting to embarrass her, Paul. They were agreeing with her fight against racism, that's all. Actually, the apostle Paul did the same type of things with the Jews, doing things that were no longer to be practiced.

cc: @Hidden In Him (my response to you too)

That's reasonable. The problem is how it appeared to many and how they interpreted the action. I have three issues with it though:
1. They gave the appearance of evil.
2. They used the technique of naming and claiming.
3. They used a loud repetitious incantation, in spite of Jesus instruction not to be repetitious as the pagans are.

The third issue is the same as when they tried over three days of repetitious claiming to bring that child, who died in her sleep, back to life. When Jesus, Peter, or Paul raised someone from the dead, they didn't have to employ that useless tactic. They just told the dead person to get up, and the person came back to life immediately. That's the difference between faith in the present power of the Holy Spirit and presumptuous naming and claiming.

 

[Paul Christensen]

Well, I am going to always give someone the benefit of the doubt. I don't know the mind or situation there that day. Why did you say Marlyne Barrett was a bad actor?

I remember visiting with my mormon friend to her church, and they served their version of communion. I didn't know what to do as they passed the water and the leavened bread loaf. I cried out to God silently and immediately He said, "do not offend." And the knowledge that it was okay.

That is because God knew that your heart was right with Him and that you were observing the Lord's death from your heart. It would be just the same for a genuine believer taking part in the Eucharist in a Catholic Mass.

 

[teamventure]

You know me. I hate it when someone says someone is worshiping a "different" Jesus than in the Bible.

Hey Charismatic Lady, you need to check what you hate and what you love. This is why we pray for God to teach us to hate the things he hates and love the things he loves instead of going on our own bents.
Much of the things you defend are things that worship a different Jesus than of the Bible btw.

 

[teamventure]

No, this isn't pagan. Pagan is an old English, I think, word derived from Pagani, and meaning, country dweller.
The Pagani,pagan people, being in what we would today call the sticks, were not as aware of changes and new practices occuring in more populated and busy areas. What we'd call , old cities.

So, conventional practices or traditions by country folk would seem the norm. While those in the busy more populated areas, "cities", had evolved from conventional practices to more efficient modern ones.

Here is a clip of that "rite" without the commentary.

This isn't paganism. This is modernism entering the church. That's far worse.

Watched the video. That's some weird stuff.

 

[Amazed@grace]

Well, I am going to always give someone the benefit of the doubt. I don't know the mind or situation there that day. Why did you say Marlyne Barrett was a bad actor?

Going by her "performance" in the clip where she couldn't remember her role. Going by her being said to be a pastor and prophetess.

And mostly because someone thought blending Gandalf fantasy, which was poorly scripted, because if you're striking a stage with a LotR staff, in a rite intending to vanquish Racism from Bethel church, you don't chant, "you shall not pass!", when your intention is to have Racism pass from the midst of Bethel members.
Bethel Church's Use of <em>Lord of the Rings</em> Staff to End Racism Sparks Debate

Bethel Church Casts out Demon of Racism with Wizard Staff and Incantations

I remember visiting with my mormon friend to her church, and they served their version of communion. I didn't know what to do as they passed the water and the leavened bread loaf. I cried out to God silently and immediately He said, "do not offend." And the knowledge that it was okay.

And it was.
However, I would suggest that experience and wisdom gleaned through the holy spirit is removed from any likeness to the Bethel Gandalf act.

 

[Amazed@grace]

Watched the video. That's some weird stuff.

Agreed.

It should be noted that Bethel church is not a reflection on the whole of the Charasmatic movement.

 

[teamventure]

Agreed.

It should be noted that Bethel church is not a reflection on the whole of the Charasmatic movement.

Yes, some of the things I've heard about Bethel went way further than I think a lot of Charasmatics would agree with.

 

[Gary Urban]

I too have had visions. Prophetic insight that ends up coming true. These were when I was awake, and in dreams.
God also speaks to us in words.

Considering the majority of scripture encompasses prophecy, we're in the wrong boat as bible readers and Christians, if prophetic visions and messages are antichrist.

Noah! What were you thinking? Following the leading of that voice and vision. Lot!You too, and don't think I've missed you there Mr. Moses!


;)

God is no longer bringing any new prophecy.The last book with a warning not to add is the book of Revelation,

There are no laws missing by which we could know him more intimately. Satan is still bringing lying wonders to give the illussion God is still adding to His word which is seaed with 7 seals until the end of time,

 

[The Parson]

Well, there is an old Anabaptist saying: If anyway will do, no way will do just as well!!! Just sayin...

 

[Amazed@grace]

Btw, this is the licensed staff of Gandalf. That what appears in the Bethel clips is not.
Official: Lighted Gandalf Staff from The Hobbit

Notice in this P&P image the twists on the staff trunk? Not in the official one that runs almost $270.00.
Bethel Church Casts out Demon of Racism with Wizard Staff and Incantations

 

[Amazed@grace]

God is no longer bringing any new prophecy.The last book with a warning not to add is the book of Revelation,

There are no laws missing by which we could know him more intimately. Satan is still bringing lying wonders to give the illussion God is still adding to His word which is seaed with 7 seals until the end of time,

God is no longer bringing any new prophecy.The last book with a warning not to add is the book of Revelation,

There are no laws missing by which we could know him more intimately. Satan is still bringing lying wonders to give the illussion God is still adding to His word which is seaed with 7 seals until the end of time,

Prophecy will cease with the coming of that which is perfect.
Jesus, in his second coming.

Bible Gateway passage: 1 Corinthians 13 - New English Translation

God still speaks to his children as well.

 

[Curtis]

What you have described is the old heresy of Nestorianism which separated the humanity of Jesus from the divine. It also is similar to Deism which believes that Jesus was merely a man and not God. Both of these heresies were rejected by the established Christian church.

If it’s heresy then God is the heretic, because Philippians 2 is unequivocal.

 

[Amazed@grace]

If it’s heresy then God is the heretic, because Philippians 2 is unequivocal.

That's true. And read in proper context, particularly as pertains to verses 5&6, shows that denying the divinity of Christ, who was God in flesh, is heresy.