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Don't you know that some of the Pharisees did believe - i.e. John 3:1-2? And that some of these Pharisees were of the circumcision party within Christianity - Acts of the Apostles 15:5?
Well, you certainly didn't consider the many variables the passages brings up that I listed. If you had you'd know that the operation of the gifts in unbelievers in the old covenant times that I've been making helps your Osas argument.
What do you make of the following as saying:
Clearly I had not judged you in any way.
It takes two to have intimacy. A, mother and father, for example, can know their infant child but can't have a mutual intimate relationship until the child grows up. That's how it is with Christians. They are born into God's family, God knows them, but they have to grow up into an intimate relationship with their Father. Until then we are these whiny, selfish little babies that bear only a little resemblance to the Father we came from. And I think, based on scripture, that it is the whiny little immature babies that can fall away into unbelief because they lack intimacy with the Father. There are different analogies to show this. It can also be seen in the Parable of the Sower. Jesus said it is the mature fruit bearing soil in which the word of God perseveres. The word of God was either cast out or choked out from bearing fruit in the other immature soils.
I sure am listening. Are you?
It's an issue that must be taken into consideration when discerning Matthew 7:15-27. I've shown the pros and cons of the issue of their gifts and you keep resisting the side of the issue that I'm presenting that helps your Osas argument, lol!
He didn't bring the matter up of 'never knowing them' at all in Luke 13:24-27. So, using your logic it's not a matter of either knowing them in salvation, or knowing them intimately when you read that passage! See, you get in trouble when you don't rightly divide the word of God! You do know what it means to not rightly divide the word of God, right?
I can't resist -liking- your posts. It feels silly. You are on a roll, though. No undue flattery intended. :)
Allow me to jump in here. If you or I could keep the law we would indeed be justified by that law. We would not be justified by simply hearing the law, we would be justified by keeping the law. That is equally true if Paul is using the word justified in regard to being shown to be righteous (see James 2:24). It isn't the person who hears the law that is shown to be righteous. It is the person who keeps (or rather upholds) the law that is justified as being a righteous person. Lip service don't cut it. Osas (the new Osas) says it does.
Lol, I thought I was ruffling your feathers. Thank you for your encouragement.
You said Matthew 7:22 excluded any consideration that Jesus was talking about gifted teachers and prophets among the Jews who would one day say 'But, Lord....didn't we....?'
And so when Jesus said “I never knew you”, that He could be saying that to babes? And yet here you seem to understand the situation of babes. But still you think Jesus would say to these babes, depart from me, you who practice lawlessness. Well,....
That can be easy to assume. I tend to be a little rough around the edges. However, I think we might be two brothers from different mothers, so to speak. We see eye-to-eye on an awful lot of stuff. Of course, that doesn't mean we're both dialed in on everything. But you seem to have a "God really means what He says" kind of approach to Scripture. I really resonate with that.
No, no, no! Lol. I didn't say that. I was using him as proof that Jesus can be referring to the operation of legitimate gifts of the Spirit in unbelievers. I was NOT saying he, specifically, is one of those people who will one day say, "Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy..." in a vain attempt to gain entry into the kingdom of God. He is proof that the gifts operated in unbelievers during the time of Jesus under the old covenant. That's all.
Perhaps, but it was not an issue we are taking up in our discussion of the Mt.7:21-23 passage.
I agree, we seem to be on the same page. The scriptures are actually quite simple and straightforward. Sure there are things that require a little more investigation and knowledge of scripture, but overall once you receive that knowledge you can see how simple the gospel really is. Trying to defend the Osas agenda makes the scriptures complicated and esoteric and not able to be understood by the common person who just wants to read the Bible.That can be easy to assume. I tend to be a little rough around the edges. However, I think we might be two brothers from different mothers, so to speak. We see eye-to-eye on an awful lot of stuff. Of course, that doesn't mean we're both dialed in on everything. But you seem to have a "God really means what He says" kind of approach to Scripture. I really resonate with that.
