John 1:1 looked at HONESTLY!

[Wrangler]

And of when Jesus said He would raise Himself?

No. That’s reading into the text. The idea that Adonai alone is God, using singular pronouns 10,000 times should not be casually laid aside to fit your doctrine.

I would get my wife a refill is not the same as Being B actually doing it.

 

[theQuestioneer]

John 17:4- I have brought you glory on earth by finishing the work you gave me to do.
5- And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.

Trinitarians sometimes latch on to this, saying he was God before becoming man, and temporarily gave up godhood....Where does it ever say anything like that?
Please SHOW me! Is that too much to ask?
It DOES tell us that he was God's Spokesman (Word). And since men are described by God as a little lower than the angels, it is clear that just being in Heaven was Glory- then being alongside God as the Word- and given the honor to make all creation, as directed by his Father- it's plain to see what he was REALLY referring to without inserting vile clergy-thoughts into scripture!

 

[Wrangler]

But God isn't bound by the system of mathematics that he created.

No buts. God is a God of order, not chaos. While God knows everything, he does not know nonsense, like square circles or trinitarianism.

 

[marks]

↑
And of when Jesus said He would raise Himself? This means that Jesus is God, since He would raise Himself from the dead?Much love!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Glad you ASKED!
Did "GodJesus" raise 'Himself', while still ALIVE?
Did "GodJesus" raise 'Himself', when DEAD?

Why do you keep responding to my question without your answer? You don't have to reply, you know.

Why are you glad I asked, when you do not answer?

Much love!

 

[marks]

No. That’s reading into the text. The idea that Adonai alone is God, using singular pronouns 10,000 times should not be casually laid aside to fit your doctrine.

I would get my wife a refill is not the same as Being B actually doing it.

Actually, I'm not reading anything into the text, that IS the text.

Are you familiar with the passage?

Much love!

 

[theQuestioneer]

John 17:6- I have revealed you to those whom you gave me out of the world. They were yours; you gave them to me and they have obeyed your word.
7 -Now they know that everything you have given me comes from you.
8- For I gave them the words you gave me and they accepted them. They knew with certainty that I came from you, and they believed that you sent me.
9- I pray for them. I am not praying for the world, but for those you have given me, for they are yours.
10- All I have is yours, and all you have is mine. And glory has come to me through them.
11- I will remain in the world no longer, but they are still in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, protect them by the power of your name, the name you gave me, so that they may be one as we are one.
20 - I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will believe in Me through their word;
21- that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me.

So, another Trini-tactic dissolves in smoke; from these words, it is CLEAR that when Jesus said he and his Father were One- he wasn't talking Identity!
And notice the reference to the Name of God?
Just because Koine Greek didn't have it, it doesn't destroy it: Jehovah (Yehovah)!

 

[kcnalp]

John 1:18- No one has ever seen God; the only son, who is in the bosom of the Father, he has made him known.

Thousands saw the son.
John, writing this later, knew that he was with Him.

Referring to the Father. Several saw God in the OT. It was the Son.

Exodus 6:2-3 (NKJV)
2 And God spoke to Moses and said to him: "I am the LORD. 3 I appeared to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, as God Almighty, but by My name LORD I was not known to them.

 

[kcnalp]

John 6:37- All whom the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away.
38- For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of Him who sent me.
39- And this is the will of Him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those He has given me,
but raise them up at the last day.

[This is the 'gospel']

40- For my Father's will is that everyone who looks to the son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will
raise them up at the last day."
41- At this the Jews there began to grumble about him because he said, "I am the bread that came down from heaven."
42- They said, "Is this not Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How can he now say,
'I came down from heaven'?"
43 -"Stop grumbling among yourselves," Jesus answered.
44- "No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day.
45- It is written in the Prophets: 'They will all be taught by God.' Everyone who has heard the Father and learned
from Him comes to me.
46- No one has seen the Father except the one who is from God; only he has seen the Father.

Mad: Can the Supreme Being be "sent" by someone else? Of COURSE not!
NO ONE commands the Supreme Being; HE is the One who does the sending!
Thousands saw Jesus- NO ONE has seen God!

Which translation are you citing?

 

[theQuestioneer]

Which translation are you citing?

Usually the RCV.

 

[kcnalp]

If Jesus is God then why is he seeking glory from another?

John 17:5 (NKJV)
5 And now, O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.

 

[kcnalp]

Jesus body died

he himself immediately left the body, he was still alive

he also died spiritually before he died physically

again, your arguments are fine. But they are lacking understanding

Say what???

 

[kcnalp]

No we did not lie

he died spiritually when he cried out my god my god why has thou forsaken me,

then he said it is finished. The literal translation being paid in full

the payment for sin was completed before he gave up the spirit

He was quoting Scripture. He didn't believe He was forsaken!

Psalm 22:1 (NKJV)
1 My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me?

 

[kcnalp]

At least they have provided some scripture. You have provided none at all in your post.

I have been reading and studying all of scripture for a great many years and unless I were to accept by faith some other man's idea or belief as my own, I have found no good reason to embrace a Trinitarian doctrine. I understand why many have done so, but they have rarely if ever started from nothing and gone on from there. Mostly they are following the lead of other people.

Lots of people on this forum are strongly opposed to Catholicism, but that would be the source that I see for the Trinitarianism supported or held by most, if not all, of the Protestants.

Why is there not indication in the following verses that there should be more than one person or part or whatever of group in the One God?

“Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:” Deut 6:4

“See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand.” Deut. 32:39

I don't expect you or anyone else to follow me because what I have said, but why do so many believe I should jump onto their bandwagon with regard to the nature of God, which no one knows. I believe that they all only believe!

JW? SDA? Mormon? Unitarian? Muslim?

 

[theQuestioneer]

Immediately after being resurrected:

John 20:17- Jesus said to her, "Do not cling to me, for I have not yet ascended to my Father; but go to my brethren and say to them, "I am ascending to my Father and your Father, and to my God and your God."

Churchoids completely ignore Jesus' words here.
They KNOW a Supreme Being can't be under ANOTHER Supreme Being!

He was praying to his GOD!

 

[kcnalp]

Not possible since the trinity is not in the Bible. Just what verse do you claim is the
preincarnate Jesus speaking in any capacity?

Also, what is the significance of using form of the word God?

Isaiah 48
12 "Listen to Me, O Jacob, And Israel, My called: I am He, I am the First, I am also the Last. 13 Indeed My hand has laid the foundation of the earth, And My right hand has stretched out the heavens; When I call to them, They stand up together.16 "Come near to Me, hear this: I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; From the time that it was, I was there. And now the Lord GOD and His Spirit Have sent Me."

 

[BroRando]

Referring to the Father. Several saw God in the OT. It was the Son.

Correct. The angel of Jehovah is Jesus. (Exodus 3:2) However no man has seen God himself. "No man has seen God at any time" (John 1:18)

 

[kcnalp]

Poor Jesus who did not correct Thomas when Thomas called him God.

Jesus must have forgot to get the memo that he was not God

And He sure would have rebuked him SEVERELY!!!

 

[kcnalp]

The problem is in the translation sir. The translators were not ignorant, it was deliberately manipulated to Deify Jesus. All versions which state it the way you posted it, add an a and do not capitalize the g at Acts 28:6 which was translated under the same rules of translation. There are other scriptures that show that they clearly knew how to translate it correctly as well.

You are very well correct, Jesus is not God, if he is the world is in big trouble, as how can anything good come out of a sinner Mk 10:40;13:32

Are you saying Jesus was a sinner???

 

[theQuestioneer]

John 20:17- Jesus said to her, “Do not hold me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to my brethren and say to them, I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.” 18- Mary Mag′dalene went and said to the disciples, “I have seen the Lord”; and she told them that he had said these things to her.

Do you church-goers think Thomas was a Trinitarian?

John 20:27- Then He said to Thomas, "Reach your finger here, and look at My hands; and reach your hand here, and put it into My side. Do not be unbelieving, but believing." 28- And Thomas answered and said to Him, "My Lord and my God!"
29- Jesus said to him, "Thomas, because you have seen Me, you have believed. Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed."

Unless you do, Thomas was praising both the one he thought not resurrected (which, ironically, Churchianity doesn't believe, either!), and the One who HAD resurrected him!

 

[kcnalp]

Correct. The angel of Jehovah is Jesus. (Exodus 3:2) However no man has seen God himself. "No man has seen God at any time" (John 1:18)

"Several saw God in the OT. It was the Son"

I know it's correct. Jesus is God.