new version of OSAS?

[marks]

You did not disown him, you were faithless. You can have little faith in God's activity in your life and you remain saved, but you cannot outright reject salvation in Christ and remain saved.

Gee. Are you now saying you can be saved even if you are faithless? Have no faith? Faithless? The one without faith is saved?

Consisder your responses to @Blood Bought 1953

Much love!

 

[kcnalp]

What I am saying that cannot happen to the true believers and true disciples, is lose salvation or be unsaved.

Did that happen to Satan? Nope. Besides, Satan never was saved.

Tong
R3376

YAY!!!! I can NEVER be unsaved!

 

[kcnalp]

Gee. Are you now saying you can be saved even if you are faithless? Have no faith? Faithless? The one without faith is saved?

Consisder your responses to @Blood Bought 1953

Much love!

Did you forget that Blood Bought 1953 said even unbelievers go to Heaven?

 

[BarneyFife]

Of course there is assurance WHEN you truly believe. When you truly believe you enter into a relationship with God

I am talking about those people like in the parable of the sower and the seed, you accept the word, but never give it place in their heart to grow, and it dies...they never did believe

Belief= Faith + action
If you believed a giant rock was going to land right where you stood....you would move. If you believed in God, then your life would change

Once Saved Always Saved......but that salvation has to be genuine

"......but that salvation has to be genuine" = no assurance--conditional

My eternal destiny cannot be predicated upon my own sincerity at one certain point in my life. No assurance of that at all. Either Christ is the Author and Finisher of my faith or there is no hope for me. Dependence upon/trust in Him for only one moment is fleeting. Sanctification is the work of a lifetime.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Gee. Are you now saying you can be saved even if you are faithless? Have no faith? Faithless? The one without faith is saved?

Consisder your responses to @Blood Bought 1953

Much love!

Ah, you’ve seen his inconsistency. It’s a blessing to see your your own inconsistencies. You can’t do anything about them until you see them.

We do some hinky things with our thumb and the scale!

 

[BarneyFife]

Ask BB. He said he fell away from God back to unbelief...

So did I. If I had died in 1989 I would have been as lost as the day is long. From 73 to 89 all I had was an assurance from the Southern Baptist church that as a backslider I would be saved unless I got to some unspecified point of rebellion.

 

[Cooper]

What I am saying that cannot happen to the true believers and true disciples, is lose salvation or be unsaved.

Did that happen to Satan? Nope. Besides, Satan never was saved.

Tong
R3376

A true believer will never stray from the narrow path, or if they do, will soon return. The problem with osas is with someone who goes back into the world, after giving their life to God, a backslider, who lives a life not pleasing to God, blaspheming and living a licentious life etc and never returns to the fold in repentance, then the Bible tells us their end is worse than their beginning.
.

 

[BarneyFife]

No one ever stops believing

Absolute bunk. I have personally known people who clearly loved Jesus so much that they couldn't talk about anything else, turn from their faith and deny Him completely. Psychology is a real thing. People do what they want to do.

 

[amadeus]

if you stop believing,were you ever really saved?

Do you know the answer to your own question about anyone else? Are you God knowing the minds and hearts of each other person? If you are not and you do not why do you insist that you are right and they who disagree with you are wrong? Following the Lord according to your heart, but without absolute knowledge, go extremely carefully about judging anyone else absolutely. All of us who walk with God do so by faith, which is NOT knowledge, is it?

"Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." Heb 11:1

 

[Riverwalker]

Absolute bunk. I have personally known people who clearly loved Jesus so much that they couldn't talk about anything else, turn from their faith and deny Him completely. Psychology is a real thing. People do what they want to do.

You just are not reading what I am writing. I said we can reject Jesus.....but that is not suddenly unbelieving. That is denial

 

[BarneyFife]

I think it is a fatal mistake, with echoes of, oh, no, no, you won’t surely die if you don’t trust God!

Exactly. The original Edenic lie.

Trust and obey, 'cause there's no other way, to be happy in Jesus, but to trust and obey.

The old hymns were written when people believed the Bible meant what it said.

Now they love to sing 7-11 songs--the same 7 words repeated 11 times--with no substance.

 

[amadeus]

According to the parable of the sower, persecutions show when the person "received the word with joy", but "had no root in themself", as they fall away.

And according to Peter, persecutions show when the person's faith is genuine, as endurance is the proof of a genuine faith.

So no, belief that doesn't last is not a saving faith.

Much love!

Even if every word you have written here is true, how do you personally know enough to finally judge anyone else's walk with God to enable you to say without doubt that his faith is, or is not, genuine? Does God work exactly the same way in every person? Is every person in exactly the same you are with exactly the same experiences in his own past as a man?

 

[Cooper]

Once saved always saved is correct. But not everyone who claims to be saved has made the life change required by that belief

There is not a thing we can do to earn salvation. Jesus did it all. We just have to take it in and make it part of use.
God Front loaded Salvation so that we could live for Him

We do however need to continue to the end. Saved people do lose faith and backslide and you people say, well that is alright, you were saved once, so now you are eternally secure. I think they would need to repent and seek Gods forgiveness otherwise what your church is offering, is a licence to sin.
.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

"......but that salvation has to be genuine" = no assurance--conditional

My eternal destiny cannot be predicated upon my own sincerity at one certain point in my life. No assurance of that at all. Either Christ is the Author and Finisher of my faith or there is no hope for me. Dependence upon/trust in Him for only one moment is fleeting. Sanctification is the work of a lifetime.

And there is the fatal mistake. God is so merciful, but we want to make sure we don’t at all times have to depend on Him being merciful. We want assurance that He will be merciful even if we don’t return to Him more than the talent He gave us, even if our trust stays small. We want our end to be good even if we don’t continue in trust and grow in trust. I’m not sure if...we are afraid He won’t grow our trust...?Or...we want to have our comfortable place in the world AND live forever? And so we make our theologies to do away even with the trust He saves us by. I don’t understand it. He is very patient, very merciful, very forgiving, so just keep trusting Him and leave the judgement of yourself in His hands.

 

[BarneyFife]

You just are not reading what I am writing. I said we can reject Jesus.....but that is not suddenly unbelieving. That is denial

Doubletalk. Either a person is in a growing relationship with Christ or they are not. But God reserves the prerogative to preserve those who are reachable by His Spirit.

 

[amadeus]

Absolute bunk. I have personally known people who clearly loved Jesus so much that they couldn't talk about anything else, turn from their faith and deny Him completely. Psychology is a real thing. People do what they want to do.

I won't declare it precisely here, but I have personally had the kind of experience you mention having seen in others. For me it is my testimony and do not offer up for people who are supposed to be believers to criticize. We are all supposed to be growing as even Jesus grew, but some people it seems to me have found comfortable chair or pew or position where they want to stay with no further need to grow in order to reach the top... Similar to climbing up a talus slope!

 

[Cooper]

By our works we are known.
.

 

[amadeus]

"Backslider" is a term used for Israel, but never used for a person born again.

Much love!

Be careful with that! It is one of those ATs [Absolute Truths] which may only be what you believe rather than what you really know.

 

[amadeus]

By our works we are known.
.

Known to those with eyes to see... but many have poor vision or are blind! Who among us already is past seeing through a glass darkly always and now is always seeing 'face to face'?

 

[BarneyFife]

You just are not reading what I am writing. I said we can reject Jesus.....but that is not suddenly unbelieving. That is denial

The problem is the ever-present obsession with our standing with God. I was born again when I was 8-years-old. I'm not concerned with my status at any time except right now. It's the only thing that matters in that respect. I don't know if I would be saved if I died right now. I'm not my own judge. I trust that God has done everything He could to save me. That gives me more assurance than speculating about my own sincerity. Only I can reject His saving grace toward me. You will never, ever catch me saying or even hinting that someone is lost. Not ever. I don't believe salvation is primarily about assurance, anyway. Just because the Bible speaks about it, that doesn't mean that we are to pose as experts regarding the subject. The main thing is to keep the main thing the main thing.

And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. (John 17:3)​

Fire away, folks.