new version of OSAS?

[marks]

God is saving. When He saves a person, that’s it. He does not fail.

His salvation is by grace.

And those He saves, He saves through faith.


Tong
R3355

And I would say, those whom God saves, He does in fact save.

Much love!

 

[Riverwalker]

No one ever stops believing

People who fall away never really believed. Oh they gave a mental assent to God...but they never made the deep heart change that belief requires. Never entered into a personal loving relationship with the Lord. Once you know the Lord, you cannot "unbelieve" you can reject Him, but you cannot say he does not exist

The bible is replete with examples telling us that if we believe in God then we will live like we believe
Works do not save, but they follow salvation. And if you are not doing these good things, then your faith is dead (aka non existent)

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

 

[marks]

Notice Jesus said IF you abide in my word.

Can people not read?
.

A person who does not live in Jesus' word is not His disciple.

And a person who does not live in the US is not a US resident.

Many go on to make this statement a future conditional statement, as if to say, if you stop living in the US, you'll be kicked out! But that's not the statement Jesus is making.

Much love!

 

[BarneyFife]

But, Paul does talk about growing in trust and Gods patience being meant to turn us away from disobedience of trust.

Would you call that a definite distinction between trusting God for temporal things and spiritual things? I don't believe God casts us off for failing in either case. I believe there is only one unforgivable sin.

 

[marks]

God gave us free will. It is the devil who bind us in chains. Those in the cults are already enslaved and the belief you are always saved because you once believed is a cult.

That's not what I think.

We remain saved not because we "once believed", but because we've been born from God.

Much love!

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
What I said is that, it is not the abiding that I was talking about, in relation to John 8:31.

If worrying is not abiding for you, what can I say, except that it is not that which I was talking about.

what then do you see as “remaining in My word.”

It is holding on to His word. We see such in the context, v.23-29.

Tong
R3374

 

[marks]

Paul said to keep running the race, and to press towards the mark. The whole armour of God is to keep Satan at bay, if it were not, God was wasting his time and that He does not do. There is a plan and a purpose for everything God does, so use the tools h gave us.

It's all so that we will believe that we are His, and believe what He's done for us, and thereby benefit.

Much love!

 

[BarneyFife]

People who fall away never really believed.

Then there is no assurance. I heard this from the Southern Baptist church for the first 26 years of my life and it gave me no comfort at all. It is suitable for people who have strong willpower, naturally. For the rest of us, it is a plague.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

How exactly do you quit believing when you know God?

Might we likewise quit believing there is a sun in the sky?

Much love!

But also,
You say you have faith, for you believe that there is one God. Good for you! Even the demons believe this, and they tremble in terror.

 

[marks]

That is what keeps me wondering about.

To think that Christians supposedly have the mind of Christ, that such thoughts comes to them even to the point of embracing that idea,

Scriptures tells us clearly that there is absolutely nothing that can separate those now who are in Christ from God and Jesus, that some have the mind that they consider their will power excluded from the absolute nothing that can separate one from God, is mind boggling for me.

This is why I brought up the questions for consideration: Do you think you can throw away Him you claim, profess, and confess to believe? Do you think you will ever desire or want to do that? Do you see any one reason that could change what today you claim, profess, and confess concerning God and Jesus?

Tong
R3362

From Young's Translation:

Romans 8:38-39 YLT
38) for I am persuaded that neither death, nor life, nor messengers, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present,
39) nor things about to be, nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of god, that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

This brings out the plain meaning of ktisis there, Created Thing.

So I would ask . . . are you a created thing?

Much love!

 

[marks]

But to not be misunderstood, our remaining is not a condition to be saved. It points to the kind of faith or believing through which God saves.

Tong
R3364

And that's where the entire debate swings.

Do we persevere because we are saved? Or do we persevere to remain saved?

Is it about what Jesus did? OR about what I do?

I know clearly my answer.

Much love!

 

[Tong2020]

marks said: ↑
God won't accept sin in His presence, so either He's cleansed us from sin like He said, or ain't none of us gonna be there.

That is a misnomer. Do you have scripture for that ?

And if that were the real case why did God allow satan into his presence several times in heaven after he fell ?

There is a difference in accepting and allowing to accomplish His purpose.

Tong
R3375

 

[Riverwalker]

Then there is no assurance. I heard this from the Southern Baptist church for the first 26 years of my life and it gave me no comfort at all. It is suitable for people who have strong willpower, naturally. For the rest of us, it is a plague.

Of course there is assurance WHEN you truly believe. When you truly believe you enter into a relationship with God

I am talking about those people like in the parable of the sower and the seed, you accept the word, but never give it place in their heart to grow, and it dies...they never did believe

Belief= Faith + action
If you believed a giant rock was going to land right where you stood....you would move. If you believed in God, then your life would change

Once Saved Always Saved......but that salvation has to be genuine

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Would you call that a definite distinction between trusting God for temporal things and spiritual things? I don't believe God casts us off for failing in either case. I believe there is only one unforgivable sin.

hmm...I would call it more like, if you won’t believe me about earthly things how can I tell you about heavenly things?Or, If you won’t stand firm, I can’t make you stand firm.

 

[kcnalp]

No one ever stops believing

People who fall away never really believed. Oh they gave a mental assent to God...but they never made the deep heart change that belief requires. Never entered into a personal loving relationship with the Lord. Once you know the Lord, you cannot "unbelieve" you can reject Him, but you cannot say he does not exist

The bible is replete with examples telling us that if we believe in God then we will live like we believe
Works do not save, but they follow salvation. And if you are not doing these good things, then your faith is dead (aka non existent)

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

Isn't it amazing watching OSASers making up their fairy tale.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Would you call that a definite distinction between trusting God for temporal things and spiritual things? I don't believe God casts us off for failing in either case. I believe there is only one unforgivable sin.

I don’t think He casts us off for stumbling in trust either, as long as we get up and turn back to our trust. I am very close to OSAS most of the time, except I think they make one fatal mistake. In building their doctrine, they do away with even the trust God saves us through. By grace, through trust.

So it begins to sound like you must trust only so long as you grab at not dying but then you have Gods hands tied and can not grow in trust or trust anything ELSE He said. Which is Israel in the desert.

But none of the parables show that.

I think it is a fatal mistake, with echoes of, oh, no, no, you won’t surely die if you don’t trust God!

 

[Riverwalker]

Isn't it amazing watching OSASers making up their fairy tale.

Once saved always saved is correct. But not everyone who claims to be saved has made the life change required by that belief

There is not a thing we can do to earn salvation. Jesus did it all. We just have to take it in and make it part of use.
God Front loaded Salvation so that we could live for Him

 

[kcnalp]

Once saved always saved is correct. But not everyone who claims to be saved has made the life change required by that belief

Another OSAS judge. Anyone who doesn't swallow the OSAS hoax was NEVER saved. lol

There is not a thing we can do to earn salvation. Jesus did it all. We just have to take it in and make it part of use.
God Front loaded Salvation so that we could live for Him

Yay! I can NEVER be unsaved! You said so!

 

[marks]

Ask BB. He said he fell away from God back to unbelief...

Better to stick with the Bible for doctrine than anecdotal experience.

Much love!

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
Yes they believed, but not the kind that Jesus spelled out in John 8:31. Such believing is that which is from man and not that which comes from God. It’s like every person, even the non Christian, can believe that he can do this and that, but ceases in time. That is the kind of believing that one who profess to believe and later ceases.

They fell away. What did they fall away from? They fell away from the Lord.

Satan was a fallen angel, Satan was in the presence of God, but he turned away from God. If you say it cannot happen, and it did, then you show up OSAS for the foolishness it is.
.

What I am saying that cannot happen to the true believers and true disciples, is lose salvation or be unsaved.

Did that happen to Satan? Nope. Besides, Satan never was saved.

Tong
R3376