new version of OSAS?

[marks]

Those who no longer abide in Him must have believed previously, or they could not cease.
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Where are you seeing "no longer abide"? I can't think of where that expression might be used in the Bible.

That one doesn't abide in Christ, this doesn't somehow mean, you did, but now you don't.

I don't live in New York. I've never actually been there. I don't abide in Georgia either. I have been there for a few days.

Much love!

 

[amadeus]

Also @stunnedbygrace

And it seems, while you loom at the story of the Israelites whom God had saved from slavery in Egypt and learn from that, you seem to forget to look at the contrast between them and the Christians, between the old and new covenants, between the shadow and the reality. I have on the other thread wrote about that.

Besides, concerning the Israel of God, Paul said, “it is not that the word of God has taken no effect. For they are not all Israel who are of Israel”, and also “all Israel will be saved”.

Tong
R3372

All of Israel was saved out of Egypt, but most of them died in the wilderness never making it into the Promised Land!

 

[marks]

So...you are saying (to my mind) that you only have to believe you will never die to be saved and remain saved. Yet Israel believed they would not die (because it would have been sheer insanity to step under that wall of water if you didn’t believe God that He would save your life, so they obviously believed Him). And God was true and they did not die. Then, they didn’t continue to believe and trust Him about food and water and He was displeased that they did not continue in trust, remain in trust, abide in trust, so He let them die there and didn’t let them enter Into what He had prepared for them. So if God never changes, how is it that I could believe Him that I won’t die (as Israel did) but if I don’t believe Him about temporal provision (as Israel did), that I will be allowed to enter what He has prepared? It makes no sense. It’s great delusion to expect I could do EXACTLY what Israel did and get a different result.

We are in a covenant with God that contains such promises, yes, it's an unfair advantage, if you want to look at it that way. Better promises, that's how I look at it.

I'm curious how you see the new birth.

Much love!

 

[kcnalp]

Put it all in context. I know what he was expressing. I'd call it having a bad day/week/month/year. The mind is unstable, and we can be blown different directions until we become more stabilized by the Word.

And we may not always understand what is happening with us, particularly before we learn how the Bible treats these topics. Looking at anecdotal experience isn't always the best way to determine truth. First understand the Scriptures, and then we will more clearly see how our experiences are defined by God's Word. And to communicate them, I think it best to do so in Scriptural terms.

Abraham believed God, and that belief was counted to him for righteousness, yet he still pleaded with God to accept Ishmael. If we are faithless, He remains faithful.

Much love!

None of which means we can't forsake God!

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Let me ask you . . . do you believe that a person is able to have a certain and true knowledge that they do in fact know God, are known by God

Much love!

I cut off the last part because I want to address the first two first of all. The disciples saw God and ate meals together with Him, including Judas.

when Jesus said one of you will betray me, they asked, oh no, is it me Lord?? Why would they ask that? How are you more certain than they were?

 

[marks]

count the testing of your trust as all joy because it will produce patience and an endurance of trust

I agree with you, that the testing of our faith/trust does produce endurance, and that produces experience (proof from your history), which produces hope, the expectation of good to come.

Romans 5:3-6 KJV
3) And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;
4) And patience, experience; and experience, hope:
5) And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.
6) For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.

Tribulation works patience/endurance. It just does. Why is that? Why is God so plainly positive that this is so?

Much love!

 

[stunnedbygrace]

We are in a covenant with God that contains such promises, yes, it's an unfair advantage, if you want to look at it that way. Better promises, that's how I look at it.

I'm curious how you see the new birth.

Much love!

You think God has given you an unfair advantage over the apple of His eye? Why would you think that if God is no respecter of persons?

 

[amadeus]

...
A better covenant yes, but still based on trust. By grace, THROUGH trust.

Yes, indeed, a better covenant and Jesus words confirm what God expects as a result: "Much is given... much is required"

"But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more." Luke 12:48

 

[Cooper]

Where are you seeing "no longer abide"? I can't think of where that expression might be used in the Bible.

That one doesn't abide in Christ, this doesn't somehow mean, you did, but now you don't.

I don't live in New York. I've never actually been there. I don't abide in Georgia either. I have been there for a few days.

Much love!

The exhortation to “abide” has been frequently misunderstood, as though it were a special, mystical, and indefinable experience. But Jesus makes clear that it actually involves a number of concrete realities.

First, union with our Lord depends on His grace. Of course we are actively and personally united to Christ by faith (John 14:12). But faith itself is rooted in the activity of God. It is the Father who, as the divine Gardener, has grafted us into Christ. It is Christ, by His Word, who has cleansed us to fit us for union with Himself (15:3). All is sovereign, all is of grace.

Second, union with Christ means being obedient to Him. Abiding involves our response to the teaching of Jesus: “If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you …” (John 15:7a). Paul echoes this idea in Colossians 3:16, where he writes, “Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly,” a statement closely related to his parallel exhortation in Ephesians 5:18: “be filled with the Spirit.”

In a nutshell, abiding in Christ means allowing His Word to fill our minds, direct our wills, and transform our affections. In other words, our relationship to Christ is intimately connected to what we do with our Bibles! Then, of course, as Christ’s Word dwells in us and the Spirit fills us, we will begin to pray in a way consistent with the will of God and discover the truth of our Lord’s often misapplied promise: “You will ask what you desire, and it shall be done for you” (John 15:7b).

Third, Christ underlines a further principle, “Abide in My love” (15:9), and states very clearly what this implies: the believer rests his or her life on the love of Christ (the love of the One who lays down His life for His friends, v. 13).

This love has been proved to us in the cross of Christ. We must never allow ourselves to drift from daily contemplation of the cross as the irrefutable demonstration of that love, or from dependence on the Spirit who sheds it abroad in our hearts (Rom. 5:5). Furthermore, remaining in Christ’s love comes to very concrete expression: simple obedience rendered to Him is the fruit and evidence of love for Him (John 15:10–14).

Finally, we are called, as part of the abiding process, to submit to the pruning knife of God in the providences by which He cuts away all disloyalty and sometimes all that is unimportant, in order that we might remain in Christ all the more wholeheartedly.

This excerpt is taken from In Christ Alone by Sinclair Ferguson.
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[marks]

It’s quite odd.

There's nothing there that comes across to me as either unbelievable or odd. Odd to experience! But I don't think that we experience things like this to be odd. God has as many ways to train His children as He has children.

Much love!

 

[marks]

It doesn't work that way for all of us.

It works that way for me, but sometimes it takes more than a minute or two.

 

[amadeus]

A person who does not live in Jesus' word is not His disciple.

And a person who does not live in the US is not a US resident.

Many go on to make this statement a future conditional statement, as if to say, if you stop living in the US, you'll be kicked out! But that's not the statement Jesus is making.

Much love!

Consider the unnamed prophet of God sent out of Judah onto Jeroboam the first king of the 10 tribes after their separation from Judah. [I Kings 13] He was certainly a man of God walking with God and in God's Word. He prophesied about King Josiah of Judah by name more than 300 hundred years before Josiah's birth. That prophecy came true [II Kings 23:16ff] , but consider the end the prophet sent out of Judah. He disobeyed God failing to check in with God and was slain by a lion as he made his way home. He never arrived at his home... He failed God actually stopping his walk with God! But, his prophecy came true!

 

[marks]

The Bible makes no such distinction. We are to live by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.

Of course that is true, yet still Paul wrote in terms of increasing our faith. I think the shield of faith to extinguish the fiery darts of the wicked is about this day to day, issues of life faith, that we continue to believe God will care for us even when _________ is happening. We have the helmet of salvation, settling that matter in our mind, but we are fired up, and we have to deal with that too.

Much love!

 

[amadeus]

Better to stick with the Bible for doctrine than anecdotal experience.

Much love!

Do we give an actual God the glory or do we glorify an often misunderstood or even unread Bible on our shelf?

 

[marks]

And we be the seed of Abraham starts to sound like we be the born again.

If you mean it the same way they meant it, sure! Only you and God know your humility, whether you are accepting truth about yourself.

Much love!

 

[marks]

If we can’t get out of the desert because we refuse to stop worrying over provision like they did, what’s the difference?
A better covenant yes, but still based on trust. By grace, THROUGH trust.

The difference is the better promise. The first covenant, you enter by trust, but you leave by disobedience. In the New Covenant, disobedience has been reconciled by Christ. You enter by trust. Having believed, God begets you. This didn't happen to the Israel in the first covenant.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Then there is no assurance.

I would disagree. The Spirit testifies with our spirit that we are the children of God. Do you know this testimony?

Much love!

 

[amadeus]

Are there different kinds of truth? I see only true or untrue.

Either it is Jesus or it is not, but how good is our vision of Jesus?

How much does a new born baby in Christ know about Jesus? In the beginning very little, but that's OK for God understands why the baby knows and sees so little. As the baby takes nourishment [the flesh and blood of Jesus] over the years, he will advance to toddler, to kindergarten level, to the rough times of a teen-ager to an adult... if he continues to take in proper and regular nourishment [the flesh and blood of Jesus].

Many, or even most, people who really did repent and turn their lives and hearts over to God that first time too soon get into 'junk food' [all of the garbage of the fleshly ways man's worlds have to offer] instead of what God has provided [the flesh and blood of Jesus] and as a result never move from the weak dependence of a child to an strong independence of an adult [from the baby on milk to the adult on meat].

Too much junk food continuously will kill us! Mama will not be there all of our lives to gives us a teat or to spoon feed us!

Of course we want to test our thoughts and ideas against Scripture, and when I look to Scripture, that is what I find. Do you find something different? About "backsliding"? As it's a term in the Bible, I look to the Bible for how it's used.

Much love!

And then there is the atheist well educated in the Bible who will trip up a person not being edified and supported by the Holy Spirit in him. Too many who have received the Holy Spirit get into the habit of quenching the Holy Spirit and following their own heads instead of Jesus!
Is that not the way into a ditch or a bottomless pit?

 

[BarneyFife]

But when you know God? How do you "unknow" Him? Now that you know Him, or rather, are known by Him?

Much love!

I don't know my best friend in high school anymore. We have hardly anything in common now. He was married to my sister for 15 years. People can grow apart. It's a thing. God knew all about me before I was even born. The same way He knew about everyone who won't choose to be saved, as well. Human logic is insufficient to perfectly analyze regeneration.

Though he slay me, yet will I trust in him. (Job 13:15)​

 

[amadeus]

We are in a covenant with God that contains such promises, yes, it's an unfair advantage, if you want to look at it that way. Better promises, that's how I look at it.

I'm curious how you see the new birth.

Much love!

And now you are saying that God is a respecter of persons. How many verses in both the OT and the NT confirm that He is not?

We will be finally judged by what we do with what we are given. If we are given more then God will most definitely expect more from us. Have you so easily ignored or forgotten many of the parables spoken by Jesus in the four gospels? If we bury our talents in the ground [our choice still] rather than following the lead of the Holy Spirit closely in using what we have received from God, will we not receive what the 600,000 received rather than what Joshua and Caleb received?