Where is the reformation in the Bible?

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theefaith

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Where are we told we must confess our sins to a priest, commit to the penance he decides appropriate, because he has the authority to forgive sins?

Jn 20:21-23

21 Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you.

22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:

23 Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.
 

theefaith

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Where is the permission in the Bible to call anyone "Father?" I thought Jesus said not to do it.

Call no man father

Typical fundamentalist misunderstandings!

Matt 23:9
Call no man Father?

Is this an absolute requirement?
Or is Our Savior condemning pride and spiritual pride of the Pharisees?

God calls men father!

Ex 3:6 Moreover he said, I am the God of thy fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon God.

Jesus calls men father!

Jn 6:49 Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness, and are dead.

Mary calls men father!

Lk 1:55 As he spake to our fathers, to Abraham, and to his seed for ever.

Peter calls men father!

Acts3:13 The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him go.

The stephen calls men father!

Acts 7 Stephen quotes the fathers over and over!

The Bible calls men father!

Luke 16:24
And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.



Then there is spiritual fathers!

Spiritual Fathers have care for our souls!

Acts 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

Jn 21:17 feed my sheep:

Heb 13:17 Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they care for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.

1 Tim 1:2 Unto Timothy, my own son in the faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God our Father and Jesus Christ our Lord.

Gal 4:19 My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you

1 John 2
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not.

That makes Peter, Paul and John spiritual fathers, pastors of our souls!

Is 22 the administrator of the kingdom is called father, so the same for Peter, the apostles, and their successors!

Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 acts 9:4 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20

Lk 10:16
He who hears you hears me...

John 13:20
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.

Jn 20:21 as my father sent me, so send in you. (The apostles) posses the same power mission and authority as Christ!
Peter, the apostles and their successors!
 

theefaith

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This thread is an outright attack on Protestants.

I'm gonna really PILE IT ON, theefaith - you got that?
This thread is an outright attack on Protestants.

I'm gonna really PILE IT ON, theefaith - you got that?

I never attack anyone for their heart felt belief, only follow Jude 1:3 contend for the faith and oppose error
I’ll do my best to answer all your questions
 

theefaith

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Where does it say that the Bishop of Rome could excommunicate an Orthodox Bishop?

RCC were the SHISMATICS - not Orthodox.

that’s schismatics
Christ is king and authority over all
Matt 28:18-20
All authority
He ascended to heaven and put Peter and the apostles and their successors in charge until He returns!
But it is His church, His kingdom
He is the only savior and mediator
It is His blood that merits grace and salvation Jn 1:16-17

Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 acts 9:4 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20

Matt 16:17-19

17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Lk 10:16
He who hears you hears me...

John 13:20
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.

Jn 20:21 as my father sent me, so send in you. (The apostles) posses the same power mission and authority as Christ!
Peter, the apostles and their successors!

What authority does Christ have?
What power does Christ have?
What mission / ministry does Christ have?

Peter, the apostles and their successors have the same authority, power, and mission! Jn 20:21 as my father sent me, even so send I you!

The apostles are Christ’s successors!
They have authority to send others as well, apostle means one who is sent!

Hebrews 3:1
Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;

Christ is an apostle, and has authority to send other apostles, the apostles also have this authority, so the apostles continue down thru the centuries as Christ promised! Matt 28:19-20

Keys of authority! And power to bind and loose! Matt 16:18 and Matt 18:18

Moral authority:
(Teaching)
Necessity of being taught by Christ:
Two edge sword: defining truth and condemning errors, and Interpreting scripture.

Jurisdictional authority:
(Governing / administering)
Necessity of Peter and the apostles and their successors to govern the holy church.

Spiritual authority:
(Life of Grace)
Sanctifying thru the mass and Sacraments
 

Waiting on him

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By what authority did the pretend to reform the church founded by God, and doctrine revealed by God?

Only the apostles have authority from Christ and the so called reformers were not apostles or successors of the apostles
1 Corinthians 5:7 KJV
[7] Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:
 
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CadyandZoe

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that refers to the pagan Roman Empire
Not the holy church founded by Jesus Christ on Peter and the apostles Matt 16:18 eph 2:20 Jn 20/21-33
You sure? I don't think so. Remember, the pagan Roman Empire encompassed all of Europe and half of Africa at the time. Given that situation, it would be near impossible to "come out of her." And besides, the "her is not a political organization is it? The woman rides the beast, which is the political organization. Surely you don't think the woman and the beast are the same thing?
 
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theefaith

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Where does the Bible say that services should be conducted in a language the people do NOT UNDERSTAND?

Latin was the common (vulgate) language of the people of rome
Besides this there is always a book with side by side translation Latin be side English on the other
 

Amazed@grace

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Where does the Bible say priests/clergy should be celibate?

NOTE: Peter was married.
The bible does not. Materialism within the RRCC made it a law.

"celibacy for priests became Church law. A fringe benefit of a celibate clergy was that it was easier to maintain ownership of Church property, which would otherwise pass to the heirs of a married cleric. This was important in the ongoing Church struggle to maintain an independent identity from the Empire."
Source PDF: http://votf.org/pswg/Handout_History.pdf

https://bigthink.com/culture-religion/pagan-roots-of-catholicism

history paganism in roman rite catholic church at DuckDuckGo
 

theefaith

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1Ti 4:1

Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

1Ti 4:2

Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

1Ti 4:3

Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.

refers to the so called Protestant reformation and the fundamentalism that came from it, faith without reason

Catholics are free to marry, I was married 25 yrs
There are parts of the church where the priest is married
And others such as Anglican or Episcopalian priests converts to the church they are valid priests who are married, it’s a discipline not a doctrine

a man may sacrifice a lower good (marriage) for a higher good (the gospel)
 

theefaith

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1Ti 2:5

For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

No co-mediator - no co-redemtrix


Biblical Mary!

Behold thy mother!

What does Behold in scripture mean?

A marvelous thing!
A miraculous action!
A wonder!
An awe inspiring declaration!

Behold thy mother!

John 19:26-27
When Jesus therefore saw his mother, and the disciple standing by, whom he loved, he saith unto his mother, Woman, behold thy son! Then saith has he to the disciple, Behold thy mother! And from that hour that disciple took her unto his own home.

Jesus is not asking John to care for His Mary, if so He would have said so, he is not even speaking to John, scripture says He is addressing the disciple, therefore it applies to all disciples.

Jesus is making Mary spiritual mother to all disciples! And all disciples take Her into thier home, And if the apostle John needs a spiritual mother so do we!

What is the family of God without a mother? The mother is the heart of the family! Jesus said I will not leave you orphans! Jn 14:18 He gave Mary to be the mother of one disciple then He does so for all disciples!

As eve was the mother of all the living in the first creation, gen 3:20 so Mary is the mother of all those who live in Christ and the new creation! Behold, I make all things new!

Rev 12:17 our spiritual mother!

Rachel is spiritual mother of Israel!
A type of Mary as spiritual mother of Christians!

The 12 sons of Jacob have 4 biological mothers, but Rachel is the spiritual mother of all Israel!

Matt 2:18 In Rama was there a voice heard, lamentation, and weeping, and great mourning, Rachel weeping for her children, and would not be comforted, because they are no more.




From Genesis to revelation!

First promise of salvation!

Gen 3:15
And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

Total war: enmity

None of satans works are found in Mary, she belongs entirely to God!
Even consecration herself to God at a very young age.

Isa 7:14

1 kings 2: 17 And he said, Speak, I pray thee, unto Solomon the king, (for he will not say thee nay,) that he give me Abishag the Shunammite to wife.

18 And Bathsheba said, Well; I will speak for thee unto the king.

19 Bathsheba therefore went unto king Solomon, to speak unto him for Adonijah. And the king rose up to meet her, and bowed himself unto her, and sat down on his throne, and caused a seat to be set for the king's mother; and she sat on his right hand.

20 Then she said, I desire one small petition of thee; I pray thee, say me not nay. And the king said unto her, Ask on, my mother: for I will not say thee nay.

2 Tim 2:8 Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel:

2 Tim 2: 21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work. How much more Mary who was prepared by God thru the immaculate conception! Lk 1:49

Heb 2:7

Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands





Mary is the great sign of the divinity of Christ!

Isa 7:14
Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

Matt 1:23
Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.


Lk 1:35
And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

Lk 2:35
a sword shall pierce through thy own soul also, that the thoughts of many hearts may be revealed.

Matt 27:54
Now when the centurion, and they that were with him, watching Jesus, saw the earthquake, and those things that were done, they feared greatly, saying, Truly this was the Son of God.

Jn 2:3
And when they wanted wine, the mother of Jesus saith unto him, They have no wine.

Jn 2:11
This beginning of miracles did Jesus in Cana of Galilee, and manifested forth his glory; and his disciples believed on him.

Rev 12:1
And there appeared a great sign in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:

Rev 1:5
And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.





A good tree!

Matthew 7:18
A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

The fruit of the tree of Mary is our salvation! Lk 2:30 Jesus is our salvation!
Lk 1:30 Mary found our salvation!

Mother of Divine Grace!

Hebrews 4:16
Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.


The throne of Grace is the throne of Mary the ever Virgin mother of God!

We come boldly to this throne cause Mary is our mother and advocate!

Mary is the storehouse of divine graces!

Lk 1:28
And the angel entered to her, and said, Hail Mary, full of grace; the Lord is with thee; blessed be thou among women.


Salvation is to be found with Mary!
Jesus Christ is our salvation! Lk 2:30
He is Lord, and He is with Mary! Lk 1:28
Mary found our salvation! Lk 1:30
Consented to our salvation! Lk 1:38



Mother of God Lk 1:43
Immaculate conception (sinless) gen 3:15 enmity or total war none of satans works are found in Mary
Also Lk 1:28 full of grace lk 1:49 great things plural (immaculate conception of Mary and the miraculous conception of Jesus) Lk 1:30 found favor with God (the salvation lost by Adam) mother of our salvation Lk 2:30
Perpetual Virgin Isa 7:14 matt 1:21
Lk 1:31-34

Queen of heaven
In the line of david’s kingdom the mother of the king is always queen
Jesus is king Lk 1:32-33
And king of heaven so Mary is queen of heaven

A Royal greeting!

Lk 1:28 is the only place in the Bible where such a greeting takes place!
Mary is of the tribe of Judah and the royal house of David the king!

God himself is greeting Mary thru the instrument of the angel Gabriel!

This is a Royal greeting of the queen of heaven and earth! Queen of the angels and saints! Mary is of the house of king David!

In the line of king David the mother of the king is the queen, as Jesus Christ is the king of heaven and earth and the angels and saints so Mary is the queen of the same! Lk 1:32-33

Lk 1:28 And the angel entered to her, and said, Hail, full of grace; the Lord is with thee; blessed be thou among women.
29 And when she had heard, she was troubled in his word, and thought what manner salutation this was.
30 And the angel said to her, Dread thou not, Mary, for thou hast found grace with God.

Mary is queen in rev 12:1 and heb 4:16
Mother of divine grace
 

Philip James

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well, to be fair, they did excommunicate each other

Hello James,

And have since recinded those excommmications..

Conclusion of the II Vatican Council: Joint Catholic-Orthodox declaration, approved by Pope Paul VI and Ecumenical Patriarch Athenagoras I of Constantinople (7 December 1965) | Paul VI


Since then we have been moving ever closer to full communion with each other.

What a joyous day it will be when the Patriarchs once again concelebrate the Divine Liturgy!

Peace be with you!

Christ is risen!
Alleluia!
 
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theefaith

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You sure? I don't think so. Remember, the pagan Roman Empire encompassed all of Europe and half of Africa at the time. Given that situation, it would be near impossible to "come out of her." And besides, the "her is not a political organization is it? The woman rides the beast, which is the political organization. Surely you don't think the woman and the beast are the same thing?

you could live in Rome and still come out of her
By not participating in her abominations
 

atpollard

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1 Corinthians 5:7 KJV
[7] Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:
It was a good try to discuss the OP, but even the TROLL that created the topic doesn't really want to talk about it. They just want to talk about the RCC.

I liked your quote.

I also thought that EVERY OT example of God raising up a new Judge to put Israel back on track of honoring the Covenant they made was a "TYPOLOGY" for the Protestant Reformation. Every Prophet that God raised up to warn Israel that they were ignoring the commands of God and following what seemed right to men was a "TYPOLOGY" of the reformers themselves. Huss tried to warn the Church that they had gone astray; they were not worshiping in spirit and truth, but as Pharisees according to man-made laws. Luther, Zwengli, Calvin ... how many prophets did God send to correct the "Priests" and how many did the Priests of Rome murder to preserve the cash flow for their palaces and dynasties from the sale of INDULGENCES to buy your loved ones out of Hell and into Heaven.

The Protestant Reformation was another Babylonian Exile ... a punishment on a church that had hardened its heart against the warnings of God. It was only AFTER the Reformation made their sin impossible to hide, that the RCC reformed itself and stopped selling God's Forgiveness and the office of Pope. That Cardinal-Princes were stripped of harems. That a host of overlooked abominations were cleaned up within the RCC.

The Reformation was an act of God and a judgement from God. Like the Tower of Babel, if we could not be trusted as "one" then we would have to work as "many" and perhaps learn to love "one another" and follow Jesus Christ that way.

That is my opinion.
 
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theefaith

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There was no reformation
It’s not found in scripture
The so called reformers had no authority from Christ they were not apostles
Matt 16:18 eph 2:20 Jn 20:21-23

Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 acts 9:4 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20

Matt 16:17-19

17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Lk 10:16
He who hears you hears me...

John 13:20
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.

Jn 20:21 as my father sent me, so send in you. (The apostles) posses the same power mission and authority as Christ!
Peter, the apostles and their successors!
 

atpollard

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There was no reformation
It’s not found in scripture
There was no Muslim Invasion of the Holy Land, Crusades, Discovery of the New World, US Civil War or Second Vatican Council either ... by that logic.
None of those events are recorded in the Bible!
Not even in the Apocrypha!
(although if we canonize the Book of Mormon, we might be able to accept the discovery of the new world as a real event). :)
 
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atpollard

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The so called reformers had no authority from Christ they were not apostles
  1. They were not "so-called" reformers, they actually were reformers because the RCC had fallen into gross sin at the highest levels and even admitted so when it adopted MOST of the reforms the reformers were asking for. Can I still buy forgiveness from sin with cash from the RCC? How much does it cost? Do they have a price list for common sins? That was what Luther most wanted to reform.
  2. No reformer ever claimed to be an Apostle, so that is a moot point.
  3. The Pope is not an Apostle according to the CRITERIA established by Peter in Acts, so by what authority does the Pope violate Sola Scriptura, the Holy Word of God and play the Pharisee rather than obey Jesus Christ?
Matthew 23:1-12 [NKJV]
Then Jesus spoke to the multitudes and to His disciples, saying: "The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat. Therefore whatever they tell you to observe, that observe and do, but do not do according to their works; for they say, and do not do. For they bind heavy burdens, hard to bear, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers. But all their works they do to be seen by men. They make their phylacteries broad and enlarge the borders of their garments. They love the best places at feasts, the best seats in the synagogues, greetings in the marketplaces, and to be called by men, 'Rabbi, Rabbi.' "

"But you, do not be called 'Rabbi'; for One is your Teacher, the Christ, and you are all brethren. Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven. And do not be called teachers; for One is your Teacher, the Christ. But he who is greatest among you shall be your servant. And whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted."​
 

atpollard

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(The apostles) posses the same power mission and authority as Christ!
Peter, the apostles and their successors!

... "If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book" ... [Revelation 22:18]
It is a dangerous thing to say "God says" and add things that God never said.

How many people are healed by Francis' shadow to authenticate his Apostolic Authority?