Where is the reformation in the Bible?

[Hemlock]

I don't hate Catholics, or even Catholocism - I hate when Catholics attack Protestants and call Protestants HERETICS - which had been done here much before I posted any strong sentiments against certain Catholic practices.
I don't appreciate Moderators putting words into my mouth that I didn't say, and accusing me of "hating Catholics"

 

[Hemlock]

Josho said: ↑

@Hemlock your hatred for Catholics, is noted...

You will receive a warning for Harassment, if it has not been already done so.

=====================

Is it kosher to discuss what staff actions have or have not been taken against a member?

If I was given a Warning - is it proper to tell that to the whole board?

 

[Hemlock]

I'll say it again -- I do not have hatred for Catholics -- I resent that it was stated that I do.

 

[Hemlock]

din get no warnin' either

 

[theefaith]

We should be able to share our faith in peace and charity

 

[Hemlock]

that means we can argue on messageboards without burning each other at the stake - I am good with that

 

[BreadOfLife]

No matter how much lipstick you put on a pig, you still have a pig.

And that's the BEST argument you can come up with??

Pretty pathetic . . .

 

[Waiting on him]

And that's the BEST argument you can come up with??

Pretty pathetic . . .

I’ll try to do better.

 

[BreadOfLife]

"Forbidding to marry" = saying priests must be celibate
"Commanding to abstain from meats" = No beef, only fish on Fridays

We don't have to eat fish on Fridays.

teaching for doctrines the commandments of men

It's called God-given AUTHORITY . . .

Matt 16:16-19
I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven. WHATEVER YOU BIND on earth shall be bound in heaven; and WHATEVER YOU LOOSE on earth shall be loosed in heaven."

Matt. 18:18
Amen, I say to you, WHATEVER YOU BIND on earth shall be bound in heaven, and WHATEVER YOU LOOSE on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Luke 10:16
Whoever listens to YOU listens to ME. Whoever rejects YOU rejects ME. And whoever rejects ME rejects the ONE who sent ME."

Buncha QUEERS IN THE VATICAN raping young men and covering it up!

Ummmmmm, what'dya call this, Einstein??

Evangelicals ‘worse’ than Catholics on sexual abuse

Evangelical Sex Abuse Record ‘Worse’ Than Catholic, Says Billy Graham’s Grandson

Protestant Churches Grapple With Growing Sexual Abuse Crisis : NPR

Protestants can no longer dismiss abuse as a ‘Catholic problem’

Child Sex Abuse More Prevalent Among Protestants Than Among Catholics

There Is More Sexual Abuse In The Protestant Churches Than Catholic

Catholic priests no guiltier of sex abuse than other clergy

Data Shed Light on Child Sexual Abuse by Protestant Clergy

Blogger Who Exposed Protestant Sex Abuse Cover Up Sued By Her Pastor

Denial About Sexual Abuse In Evangelical Churches

Southern Baptists Apologize For Sex Abuse Coverups

U.S. Protestants’ Views Mixed about Extent of Clergy Sexual Abuse

Churchgoers Split on Existence of More Sexual Abuse by Pastors

Confronting Evangelical Enabling of Sexual Abuse

Child abuse a Calvinist problem, podcast says

 

[BreadOfLife]

I’ll try to do better.

I hope so.
I'll be waiting right here.

 

[Illuminator]

I. PROTESTANT INTOLERANCE: AN INTRODUCTION AND OVERVIEW
1. Views of Catholic and Protestant Historians
A. Johann von Dollinger

• 
  Historically nothing is more incorrect than the assertion that the Reformation was a movement in favor of intellectual freedom. The exact contrary is the truth. For themselves, it is true, Lutherans and Calvinists claimed liberty of conscience . . . but to grant it to others never occurred to them so long as they were the stronger side. The complete extirpation of the Catholic Church, and in fact of everything that stood in their way, was regarded by the reformers as something entirely natural.(Grisar, VI, 268-269; Dollinger: Kirche und Kirchen, 1861, 68)

B. Preserved Smith (S)

• 
  If any one still harbors the traditional prejudice that the early Protestants were more liberal, he must be undeceived. Save for a few splendid sayings of Luther, confined to the early years when he was powerless, there is hardly anything to be found among the leading reformers in favor of freedom of conscience. As soon as they had the power to persecute they did.(Smith, 177)

C. Hartmann Grisar

• 
  At Zurich, Zwingli's State-Church grew up much as Luther's did . . . Oecolampadius at Basle and Zwingli's successor, Bullinger, were strong compulsionists. Calvin's name is even more closely bound up with the idea of religious absolutism, while the task of handing down to posterity his harsh doctrine of religious compulsion was undertaken by Beza in his notorious work, On the Duty of Civil Magistrates to Punish Heretics. The annals of the Established Church of England were likewise at the outset written in blood.(Grisar, VI, 278)

D. Oxford Dictionary of the Christian Church (P)

• 
  The Reformers themselves . . . e.g., Luther, Beza, and especially Calvin, were as intolerant to dissentients as the Roman Catholic Church.(Cross, 1383)

2. The Double Standard of Protestant "Inquisition Polemics" (John Stoddard)

• 
  Religious persecution usually continues till one of two causes rises to repress it. One is the skeptical notion that all religions are equally good or equally worthless; the other is an enlightened spirit of tolerance, exercised towards all varieties of sincere opinion . . . inspired by the conviction that it is useless to endeavor to compel belief in any form of religion whatsoever. Unhappily this enlightened, tolerant spirit is of slow growth, and never has been conspicuous in history, but if it be asserted that very few Catholics in the past have been inspired by it, the same thing can be said of Protestants. This fact is forgotten by Protestants. They read blood-curdling stories of the Inquisition and of atrocities committed by Catholics, but what does the average Protestant know of Protestant atrocities in the centuries succeeding the Reformation? Nothing, unless he makes a special study of the subject . . .

I. PROTESTANT INTOLERANCE: AN INTRODUCTION AND OVERVIEW
II. PROTESTANT DIVISIONS AND MUTUAL ANIMOSITIES
III. PLUNDER AS AN AGENT OF RELIGIOUS REVOLUTION
IV. SYSTEMATIC SUPPRESSION OF CATHOLICISM
V. VIOLENT RADICALISM AND THE PROTESTANT REVOLUTION
VI. DEATH AND TORTURE FOR CATHOLICS, PROTESTANT DISSIDENTS, AND JEWS
VII. PROTESTANT CENSORSHIP
BIBLIOGRAPHY
The Protestant Inquisition: "Reformation" Intolerance and Persecution

Am I supposed to believe the so called "reformation" was from God???

 

[theefaith]

We don't have to eat fish on Fridays.

It's called God-given AUTHORITY . . .

Matt 16:16-19
I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven. WHATEVER YOU BIND on earth shall be bound in heaven; and WHATEVER YOU LOOSE on earth shall be loosed in heaven."

Matt. 18:18
Amen, I say to you, WHATEVER YOU BIND on earth shall be bound in heaven, and WHATEVER YOU LOOSE on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Luke 10:16
Whoever listens to YOU listens to ME. Whoever rejects YOU rejects ME. And whoever rejects ME rejects the ONE who sent ME."


Ummmmmm, what'dya call this, Einstein??

Evangelicals ‘worse’ than Catholics on sexual abuse

Evangelical Sex Abuse Record ‘Worse’ Than Catholic, Says Billy Graham’s Grandson

Protestant Churches Grapple With Growing Sexual Abuse Crisis : NPR

Protestants can no longer dismiss abuse as a ‘Catholic problem’

Child Sex Abuse More Prevalent Among Protestants Than Among Catholics

There Is More Sexual Abuse In The Protestant Churches Than Catholic

Catholic priests no guiltier of sex abuse than other clergy

Data Shed Light on Child Sexual Abuse by Protestant Clergy

Blogger Who Exposed Protestant Sex Abuse Cover Up Sued By Her Pastor

Denial About Sexual Abuse In Evangelical Churches

Southern Baptists Apologize For Sex Abuse Coverups

U.S. Protestants’ Views Mixed about Extent of Clergy Sexual Abuse

Churchgoers Split on Existence of More Sexual Abuse by Pastors

Confronting Evangelical Enabling of Sexual Abuse

Child abuse a Calvinist problem, podcast says

This is a modernist problem
The seminary’s began being infiltrated by the communists in the 30’s then the homo predators
A direct attack on Christ and his church

 

[theefaith]

I. PROTESTANT INTOLERANCE: AN INTRODUCTION AND OVERVIEW
1. Views of Catholic and Protestant Historians
A. Johann von Dollinger

• 
  Historically nothing is more incorrect than the assertion that the Reformation was a movement in favor of intellectual freedom. The exact contrary is the truth. For themselves, it is true, Lutherans and Calvinists claimed liberty of conscience . . . but to grant it to others never occurred to them so long as they were the stronger side. The complete extirpation of the Catholic Church, and in fact of everything that stood in their way, was regarded by the reformers as something entirely natural.(Grisar, VI, 268-269; Dollinger: Kirche und Kirchen, 1861, 68)

B. Preserved Smith (S)

• 
  If any one still harbors the traditional prejudice that the early Protestants were more liberal, he must be undeceived. Save for a few splendid sayings of Luther, confined to the early years when he was powerless, there is hardly anything to be found among the leading reformers in favor of freedom of conscience. As soon as they had the power to persecute they did.(Smith, 177)

C. Hartmann Grisar

• 
  At Zurich, Zwingli's State-Church grew up much as Luther's did . . . Oecolampadius at Basle and Zwingli's successor, Bullinger, were strong compulsionists. Calvin's name is even more closely bound up with the idea of religious absolutism, while the task of handing down to posterity his harsh doctrine of religious compulsion was undertaken by Beza in his notorious work, On the Duty of Civil Magistrates to Punish Heretics. The annals of the Established Church of England were likewise at the outset written in blood.(Grisar, VI, 278)

D. Oxford Dictionary of the Christian Church (P)

• 
  The Reformers themselves . . . e.g., Luther, Beza, and especially Calvin, were as intolerant to dissentients as the Roman Catholic Church.(Cross, 1383)

2. The Double Standard of Protestant "Inquisition Polemics" (John Stoddard)

• 
  Religious persecution usually continues till one of two causes rises to repress it. One is the skeptical notion that all religions are equally good or equally worthless; the other is an enlightened spirit of tolerance, exercised towards all varieties of sincere opinion . . . inspired by the conviction that it is useless to endeavor to compel belief in any form of religion whatsoever. Unhappily this enlightened, tolerant spirit is of slow growth, and never has been conspicuous in history, but if it be asserted that very few Catholics in the past have been inspired by it, the same thing can be said of Protestants. This fact is forgotten by Protestants. They read blood-curdling stories of the Inquisition and of atrocities committed by Catholics, but what does the average Protestant know of Protestant atrocities in the centuries succeeding the Reformation? Nothing, unless he makes a special study of the subject . . .

I. PROTESTANT INTOLERANCE: AN INTRODUCTION AND OVERVIEW
II. PROTESTANT DIVISIONS AND MUTUAL ANIMOSITIES
III. PLUNDER AS AN AGENT OF RELIGIOUS REVOLUTION
IV. SYSTEMATIC SUPPRESSION OF CATHOLICISM
V. VIOLENT RADICALISM AND THE PROTESTANT REVOLUTION
VI. DEATH AND TORTURE FOR CATHOLICS, PROTESTANT DISSIDENTS, AND JEWS
VII. PROTESTANT CENSORSHIP
BIBLIOGRAPHY
The Protestant Inquisition: "Reformation" Intolerance and Persecution

Am I supposed to believe the so called "reformation" was from God???

rather it was an attack on God, on Christ and His holy church
Luther was of the mystery schools being a Rosa crucian occultist

 

[Illuminator]

rather it was an attack on God, on Christ and His holy church
Luther was of the mystery schools being a Rosa crucian occultist

Protestantism is a heresy, but Protestants are not heretics. Luther was mentally ill, but I have not found any factual evidence he was a Rosa crucian.

 

[BreadOfLife]

I don't hate Catholics, or even Catholocism - I hate when Catholics attack Protestants and call Protestants HERETICS - which had been done here much before I posted any strong sentiments against certain Catholic practices.
I don't appreciate Moderators putting words into my mouth that I didn't say, and accusing me of "hating Catholics"

Could'a fooled me . . .

"Buncha QUEERS IN THE VATICAN raping young men and covering it up!"

Face it - you shot your mouth off and got caught.

 

[BreadOfLife]

The bible does not. Materialism within the RRCC made it a law.
"celibacy for priests became Church law. A fringe benefit of a celibate clergy was that it was easier to maintain ownership of Church property, which would otherwise pass to the heirs of a married cleric. This was important in the ongoing Church struggle to maintain an independent identity from the Empire."
Source PDF: http://votf.org/pswg/Handout_History.pdf
https://bigthink.com/culture-religion/pagan-roots-of-catholicism
history paganism in roman rite catholic church at DuckDuckGo

Looks like YOU didn't do your homework - again . . .

For starters - the Holy Spirit, speaking through Paul, recommends celibacy in 1 Cor. 7:7–9, 28, 32–33. In these verses he states that celibacy was a more excellent state because the married man is anxious about worldly affairs and how to please his wife, whereas the celibate man (himself included) could focus on how to please the Lord:

1 Cor. 7:7-9
I wish that all were as I myself am. But each has his own gift from God, one of one kind and one of another. To the unmarried and the widows I say that it is good for them to remain single, as I am. But if they cannot exercise self-control, they should marry. For it is better to marry than to burn with passion.

1 Cor. 7:28
But if you do marry, you have not sinned, and if a betrothed woman marries, she has not sinned. Yet those who marry will have worldly troubles, and I would spare you that.

1 Cor. 32:34
I want you to be free from anxieties. The unmarried man is anxious about the things of the Lord, how to please the Lord. 33 But the married man is anxious about worldly things, how to please his wife, 34 and his interests are divided.

Let's not forget that Jesus ALSO recommended the celibate life for those who are able to receive this discipline:
Matt. 19:9-12
And I say to you: whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery.”
The disciples said to him, “If such is the case of a man with his wife, it is better not to marry.” But he said to them, “Not everyone can receive this saying, but only those to whom it is given. For there are eunuchs who have been so from birth, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by men, and there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. Let the one who is able to receive this receive it.”

Many of the Early Fathers, including Tertullian, Origen, Eusebius, and Epiphanius also favored celibacy. But at the local Council of Elvira (Spain, 295-302 AD) celibacy was first imposed on bishops, priests, and deacons. The bottom line is that nobody is forced to become a priest, ergo, NO Catholic is forced to be celibate. Those who enter the religious life know very well in advance that this discipline is expected of them.

As for the links you provided - they are ALL based on the heavily-debunked writings of famous anti-Catholic nincompoops like Alexander Hislop, Loraine Boettner. and Jack Chick. So, ANY time you wanna go toe-to-toe on the writings of these 3 historically-bankrupt boobs - I've got enough factual ammunition to bury ALL THREE of them.

Do yourself a favor:
Take some time off of this forum, do your homework - THEN come back and try to discuss things intelligently . . .

 

[amigo de christo]

In this final day and hour we make our stand . Let none enter into the covenant with a Harlot .

 

[theefaith]

Looks like YOU didn't do your homework - again . . .

For starters - the Holy Spirit, speaking through Paul, recommends celibacy in 1 Cor. 7:7–9, 28, 32–33. In these verses he states that celibacy was a more excellent state because the married man is anxious about worldly affairs and how to please his wife, whereas the celibate man (himself included) could focus on how to please the Lord:

1 Cor. 7:7-9
I wish that all were as I myself am. But each has his own gift from God, one of one kind and one of another. To the unmarried and the widows I say that it is good for them to remain single, as I am. But if they cannot exercise self-control, they should marry. For it is better to marry than to burn with passion.

1 Cor. 7:28
But if you do marry, you have not sinned, and if a betrothed woman marries, she has not sinned. Yet those who marry will have worldly troubles, and I would spare you that.

1 Cor. 32:34
I want you to be free from anxieties. The unmarried man is anxious about the things of the Lord, how to please the Lord. 33 But the married man is anxious about worldly things, how to please his wife, 34 and his interests are divided.

Let's not forget that Jesus ALSO recommended the celibate life for those who are able to receive this discipline:
Matt. 19:9-12
And I say to you: whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery.”
The disciples said to him, “If such is the case of a man with his wife, it is better not to marry.” But he said to them, “Not everyone can receive this saying, but only those to whom it is given. For there are eunuchs who have been so from birth, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by men, and there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. Let the one who is able to receive this receive it.”

Many of the Early Fathers, including Tertullian, Origen, Eusebius, and Epiphanius also favored celibacy. But at the local Council of Elvira (Spain, 295-302 AD) celibacy was first imposed on bishops, priests, and deacons. The bottom line is that nobody is forced to become a priest, ergo, NO Catholic is forced to be celibate. Those who enter the religious life know very well in advance that this discipline is expected of them.

As for the links you provided - they are ALL based on the heavily-debunked writings of famous anti-Catholic nincompoops like Alexander Hislop, Loraine Boettner. and Jack Chick. So, ANY time you wanna go toe-to-toe on the writings of these 3 historically-bankrupt boobs - I've got enough factual ammunition to bury ALL THREE of them.

Do yourself a favor:
Take some time off of this forum, do your homework - THEN come back and try to discuss things intelligently . . .

These men think it’s ok to lie in order to get men saved!
The end justifies the means
They make up narratives to get people saved thru fear like the fake book 50 yrs in the Roman church

church property is owned by the bishop not priests

 

[theefaith]

In this final day and hour we make our stand . Let none enter into the covenant with a Harlot .

amen only the new and eternal covenant built by Christ on Peter and the apostles

 

[BreadOfLife]

These men think it’s ok to lie in order to get men saved!
The end justifies the means
They make up narratives to get people saved thru fear like the fake book 50 yrs in the Roman church

church property is owned by the bishop not priests

Yup.
When they're weened on these kinds of historical falsehoods - they just assume that it's the truth instead of investigating for themselves.