new version of OSAS?

[stunnedbygrace]

What a wonderful day this has been spent with my very gentle and respectful brothers. A lot to work through with Gods help! I’ll be remembering our conversation for a long time and know God will further our understanding and our inconsistencies.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

Where are you seeing "no longer abide"? I can't think of where that expression might be used in the Bible.

That one doesn't abide in Christ, this doesn't somehow mean, you did, but now you don't.

I don't live in New York. I've never actually been there. I don't abide in Georgia either. I have been there for a few days.

Much love!

“ abiding “ is not a complicated thing—— “ ....and who is it that abides....it is he that believes Jesus is the Son Of God”.....

Do you Believe that Jesus is the Son Of God ? You are doing all the abiding you need worry about...relax a little.....lol....

 

[kcnalp]

Paul taught that we are to judge fellow believers, just not the World—- that’s God's Job.....

OSASers constantly imply that NON OSASers are not saved!

 

[stunnedbygrace]

We know that they died, but we don't that they were lost. The history of Israel is an object lesson, not literal, Soteriological Theology for them. It seems doubtful to me that Uzzah was lost just for trying to protect the ark of the covenant by reflex. The incident was recorded to illustrate that even unintentional, non-premeditated disobedience is deadly business.

Interesting, that Uzzah. And Moses too. They did not handle holiness correctly. Makes you think youre okay with just being among the righteous by trust! A righteous man falls many times but if you mess with holiness...yikes!

I don’t think they had a lack of trust of God like those who died in the desert.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

All of Israel was saved out of Egypt, but most of them died in the wilderness never making it into the Promised Land!

Yet , they were “ Saved by the Blood” That they had the Faith to put on their doors as they fled Egypt....the lousy Wilderness That they endured is symbolic of those that don’t Trust God enough to Rest in the Gospel ...see Hebrews 3 and 4......No Faith — No Rest.....True then, True now....

 

[amadeus]

I think that when we try to define the New Covenant as if were the same as the first covenant, that we can reach erroneous conclusions.

In the Bible, was this man born again? I don't see that in the Bible until Jesus died and rose again, as in joining to that death and resurrection is what provides for our rebirth.

Much love!

There is much we see differently and it makes our discussions confusing probably for both of us. Very simply I do not see "born again" as saved forever! What I do see may be complicated but simply...

I see being born again as an opportunity to do right what Adam and Eve did wrong. As a result of Adam and Eve disobedience we have all been dead. Jesus brought us back to a new opportunity.

We can still do it wrong after being born again. You may disagree with me on that, but unless you understand what I mean on that you may well miss any point I try to make on anything else.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

OSASers constantly imply that NON OSASers are not saved!

Not me.

 

[marks]

God said Abraham was righteous through his trust. God made that determination and judgement. Abraham did not make that determination and judgement, God did. Do you know if you are trusting as much or as radically as Abraham trusted? Are you so certain that if God told you to sacrifice your own child that you would trust Him enough to do it?

Rebirth, what is that?

Justification, what is that?

Your questions suggest to me this could be a fruitful conversation.

To answer more directly, I don't compare myself to Abraham one way or the other. Neither do I entertain hypothetical situations. They are not real, and therefore lack real answers. They are hypothesized, and so can be reimagined and turned in any direction.

Does anyone know how they will respond to some imagined future event? We imagine scenarios, we imagine ourselves in them, but what is that? Our own opinions, either our desires or fears projected into the screen of our minds.

But we do have the record of having trusted Him in past times, and how He has always shown Himself trustworthy.

Much love!

 

[Amazed@grace]

The premise against eternal salvation is a fault from the beginning.

It presumes that since we have faith in being saved we are then not saved if we lose faith.
This presumes we work to remain in God's grace.

Ephesians 2
1 Corinthians 6:20
We are not our own now We are God's.
For YE ARE BOUGHT WITH A PRICE:
therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, WHICH ARE GOD'S." (1 Cor. 6:20

For I know whom I HAVE BELIEVED, and am
persuaded that HE IS ABLE TO KEEP that which I HAVE COMMITTED UNTO HIM
against that day." 2 Timothy 1:12

All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I
WILL IN NO WISE CAST OUT." John 6:37

"THE GIFTS and calling of God ARE
WITHOUT REPENTANCE" Romans 11:2

Those who are his, are eternally saved, do not sin, nor make a habit of sinning.
The opposition to eternal salvation would argue, to think we are eternally saved this gives us a license to sin.
That is not scripture and as such is invalid and an umbilical argument fostered against the true covenant.
In debate it is what is known as intellectually dishonest.

I would cease to bear concern for that which opposes eternal salvation in Christ, the Gospel.
One will never persuade toward the truth that which is committed to disseminating falsity.

Jesus did not preach conditional salvation.
Nowhere in scripture are we told all that changes in us when we come to repentance and are saved, and reborn, reversed itself the moment we lose faith.


Rather, instead of entering into an intellectually dishonest debate fostered on a false premise why not instead ponder the why behind the undertaking?
Why would anyone insist we are not eternally saved?

 

[marks]

Yes, I do. But it does not make me trust myself.

I would not have you to trust yourself.

@BarnyFife
What is the significance of this testimony? No one can see it but you. Is this testimony anything other than the awareness of God living in me? That I find Him inside me?

Much love!

 

[kcnalp]

Not me.

No OSASer would imply someone isn't saved now would they? lol

 

[marks]

It’s still based on trust.

And it's still better promises.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

Are you denying you said you would go to Heaven if you were an unbeliever?

Nope.

 

[kcnalp]

Nope.

I haven't found anyone here who agrees with that.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

I don’t think we were talking about you there...this time we were talking about Dan if I remember correctly.
Do you miss us talking about you?

Excuse my paranoia.....lol....

 

[stunnedbygrace]

And it's still better promises.

And it’s still promises only received through trust.

 

[marks]

You can be faithless like Moses was when he hit the rock twice out of anger at the people and remain in covenant with God (Numbers 20:12). But you can not go back to Egypt and still be in covenant with God (Jeremiah 42:18).

So back to the Old Covenant theology.

What does it mean to you to be reborn? To be justified?

Much love!

 

[BloodBought 1953]

I haven't found anyone here who agrees with that.

Your point? You think I care about that? You don’t know me very well....

 

[amadeus]

Is receiving the Holy Spirit part of the journey into the abyss? I would answer no. This is what keeps us from the abyss.

Much love!

Before meeting the Master, as I see it, we were already dead. We were not on a journey to death. We were dead. Jesus brought to us an opportunity to Live and never die. Once we get on that road of opportunity with Him [new birth road] journeying into the abyss again is a possibility when we quench the Holy Spirit. Only by the power of God in us may we avoid effectively dying again.

 

[marks]

I wasn’t despising anyone...my sole focus is helping build up the trust of anyone I can.

I'm sorry, that's not what I was trying to say.

More that, God is able to make him stand, with it's surrounding context.

Much love!

 

[BarneyFife]

I think that when we try to define the New Covenant as if were the same as the first covenant, that we can reach erroneous conclusions.

In the Bible, was this man born again? I don't see that in the Bible until Jesus died and rose again, as in joining to that death and resurrection is what provides for our rebirth.

Christ was shocked that Nicodemus didn't understand regeneration. The conditions of eternal life are the same today as they have always been--perfect obedience to the commandments of God. If it were not so we would not need a savior.

And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die. (Genesis 2:16-17)

O that there were such an heart in them, that they would fear me, and keep all my commandments always, that it might be well with them, and with their children for ever! (Deuteronomy 5:29)
​

Abraham believed God when God told him he'd have countless descendants, and this was accounted to Abraham for righteousness. I believe that in Abraham's resurrection he will be regenerate.

Abraham was justified and regenerate when he first believed God, just like everyone else.

If you are a caterpillar, and someone changes you into a butterfly, you stop crawling on leaves, and begin to fly.

I thought we were sticking to the Bible.

He preached, and 1000's, tens of 1000's were saved. Who would not have said the man was a Christian? But later, in his book "Goodby to God", he revealed that he never really had believed, not underneath it all. Who knew?

Face-saving rhetoric. It's the easiest thing in the world for those who have earnestly turned their backs on God to lie to keep themselves from looking like fools.

I'm not thinking that our relationship with God works the same as our relationships with our fellow humans. Yes, there are similarities, but I think there is a fundamental difference, a very deep difference.

You may not be thinking so, but the Bible often compares our individual relationships with Him to human interpersonal ones.

Then does this assurance assure you that you will be with Him at the last?

No it does not. I am free to walk away if I choose. Children who walk away from their parents often forfeit their privileges and benefits. They are still the parents' children.

But I'm thinking the talent is representative of something else.

There you go thinking again.

If you live in California, you will pay California's sales and use tax.

If you live in Jesus, you will bear fruit.

If you live in this world, you will be subject to it's gravity.

I don't get it.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

You can be faithless like Moses was when he hit the rock twice out of anger at the people and remain in covenant with God (Numbers 20:12). But you can not go back to Egypt and still be in covenant with God (Jeremiah 42:18).

I’m not certain Moses was not trusting God. I think I remember God saying Moses failed to display Gods holiness...

I don’t know. Sometimes I read it and think I can see some...arrogance creeped in? It’s hard for me to fully understand.