new version of OSAS?

[Ferris Bueller]

I realize not many people will be with me on that. I can't see using the word horrible as an adjective for the Bible in any context, myself. To string these words together, "Horrible Old Testament" as sarcastic mockery, as if to make them my words, simply to serve his manipulative purposes. That's what that behavior is, you know. I ask him questions he cannot answer, point out things he does not wish seen, so he's taken to sarcasm and mocking, not just in this instance. He frequently deflects from responding this way. I point it out.

This isn't about you. Stop being so defensive. Relax a little. The spirit of offense is the single most destructive force at work in the church. We aren't divided by doctrine so much as we are divided by offense.

 

[marks]

This isn't about you. Stop being so defensive. Relax a little. The spirit of offense is the single most destructive force at work in the church. We aren't divided by doctrine so much as we are divided by offense.

You make the same mistake as others.

You are right, it's not about me. It's about how we comport ourselves, and the authenticity of our arguments. Don't take offense, just stick to meaningful arguments. Or, you don't even have to post if you don't want to.

This isn't about some supposed offense - that's just another deflection. "Oh, it's about your feelings!" No, that's not it. It's about integrity.

Much love!

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Paul didn't tell us that rebirth was like when God changed Saul's heart. No where is that comparison made, and when I look to see how it fits with the Scriptures in general, I don't see that playing out as a valid type.

Are you born again? Or do you only have the birth by water—a decision to follow Christ? If you are born again, don't you see how you are a different person because of the Holy Spirit? I remember the moment I was born again how dramatically different I was. I could literally feel it. All my activity for the church and my attempts at obedience to God up till then was me in my unchanged self who had made a decision to turn to God. I had yet to be born again. And when I did get born again the presence of the Holy Spirit was so dramatic in that instant I felt like a new person. Time started over for me in that moment. Now everything is reckoned according to that day the Spirit came into me. I was born anew that day......born again. I suspect few people in the church really have this experience. They are following Christ, but they have not come to the end of themselves and have yet to be born again.

 

[Amazed@grace]

Once again my paranoia is showing....sorry....

( note to self.....double the dosage ....)

LOL! (Hugs)
Love yourself. You're made in the image and likeness of God. His breath quickens as your soul, his spirit within guides your steps.
The greatest prescription in all of existence. Humans are holy power incarnate, walking about on the stage that is "his" creation. God, real-"I" -zing and real"I"zed.

It's all holy. Even the darkness, because all is of and from God.

Isaiah 45

 

[Ferris Bueller]

You make the same mistake as others.

You are right, it's not about me. It's about how we comport ourselves, and the authenticity of our arguments. Don't take offense, just stick to meaningful arguments. Or, you don't even have to post if you don't want to.

This isn't about some supposed offense - that's just another deflection. "Oh, it's about your feelings!" No, that's not it. It's about integrity.

Much love!

You're always making claims about being misunderstood or not addressed properly, or whatever. Just let it go. It's only important to you that you are not understood. The rest of us really don't care. That's true of me too. These forums go to hell because everyone's carefully guarding their pride, when the truth is, nobody cares about my image or yours. Get over yourself. I'm saying that to both me and you.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

I have this idea that as I hear @Ferris Bueller teaching New Covenant Theology but bypassing the New Testament in favor of the Old Testament teachings, and then ends up with ideas flatly contradicted in the New Testament

Like what?

 

[Ferris Bueller]

What is “ doing” something about it and what Is “ Not” doing something about it? The only thing that one “MUST” do is to become “Born Again” , right?

Not 'about it', but, 'with it'. Lot's of people hear the word of God, but few actually obey it, doing something with it. Once you get born again there is much in the word of God of what we are commanded to do. That's why God saved us. He saved us to raise up a nation and kingdom of people eager to do good.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Whoever said “ guilt can not come back? “ —- are you at the point you think you can just pull anything out of your.....Er .....ah, “ Imagination” and try to lead people astray? Try to be honest in here—— God is watching.It is NOT a good place to be a False Witness.....

Unbelievers aren't justified. If you or I go back to unbelief we do not remain justified.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

and is described as being a different kind of life that is lived in a different kind of way

Oh, you mean this.......

The Spirit of the Lord will come powerfully upon you...and you will be changed into a different person. 1 Samuel 10:9​

 

[BarneyFife]

there’s two of them
The proximate judgement: immediately
And the general judgement: at the return of Christ

Oh

 

[Ferris Bueller]

“ I will NEVER leave you nor Forsake you “...... a five year old could understand it...

And surely that same five year old can understand what God said just nine verses later, lol.

...I will become angry with them and forsake them... Deuteronomy 31:17
​

So, as you can see, 'NEVER' means 'until you forsake me'. I guess Osas can't accept that because that would make 'never' not really mean 'never', even though that is what God said.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

These things being applied, in what way does that affect us? That Jesus rose from the dead, in applying His resurrection from among the dead ones to me, what does that mean for me?

Like, if you apply a tax, I pay. Apply a cold compress, I chill. Apply pressure, I bruise. Apply Jesus' resurrection, I _________ what?

Apply Jesus' resurrection, I become a different person.

 

[Tong2020]

Redemption, Justification, Sanctification, and Salvation!

Redemption: 100 percent the work of God, thru the life, death, resurrection, and ascension of Jesus Christ! All mankind are redeemed in Christ! Eph 2
Galatians 2:16 3:13
Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law...
Christ alone accomplished the redemption of mankind apart from any works on our part!

Justification: our acceptance of redemption thru faith and baptism! Become a disciple and member of Christ and His Church! Jn 3:5 acts 2:38 Mk 16:16 He who believes and is baptized shall be saved. 1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.


Sanctification: the life of grace in the holy sacrifice of the mass and sacraments, prayer, virture, and good works, the just living by faith, and faith working thru love! Phil 1:29 called to suffer with Christ.
All done in Christ thru His grace! Jn 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

Salvation: a christian in the state if grace at the moment of death we enter into the salvation of the Lord! Mt 24:44-47 faithful servant! Jn 15:1-5 abide in me. Mt 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Heb 3:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;
Heb 6:11 And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end:
Heb 4:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;
Rom 13:11 ...for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

Suffering required for glorification with Christ!

Romans 8:17
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:




1 Pet 3:20
Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
(Ark of Noah a type of the church, member of Christ and his church and salvation by baptism!)
(Outside the ark all died and outside the church there is no salvation!)

I don’t see in there anything about the matter of being born from above. Why is that?

Consider this concerning the Israel of God and see what truth goes out to you with regards to who are counted as the seed, that is, the children of God, heirs according to the promise of God.

Romans 9:6 But it is not that the word of God has taken no effect. For they are not all Israel who are of Israel, 7 nor are they all children because they are the seed of Abraham; but, “In Isaac your seed shall be called.” 8 That is, those who are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God; but the children of the promise are counted as the seed.

“In Isaac your seed shall be called.” 8 That is, those who are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God; but the children of the promise are counted as the seed.

It is clear that the children of the promise are they who are counted as the seed, and are the children of God. And it is clear also that such matter of being the children of God has nothing to do with ancestry nor with one’s works nor with the flesh nor with one’s will nor with anything for that matter.

Now, if that is clear, there should not be any dispute concerning this matter. Rather, let us seek knowledge as to who the children of the promise are, like Isaac is.

Now is Isaac saved? Yes, he is. Was there any instance or even a hint in Isaac’s life that he lost his sonship or ceased to being a child of God and later gained it back? I read none. So then too, all the children of the promise, are saved like Isaac.

Who are, like Isaac, the children of promise, the children of God?

They are those who like Isaac, were born according to the Spirit, by the will of God. Again, let me point out that one’s works nor the flesh nor one’s will had anything to do with this.

Now I have these questions:
1. Have you been born according to the Spirit?
2. If so, by whose will was it? Was it your will?
3. And if you have been born according to the Spirit, whose child are you?
4. Are you among the children of promise like Isaac?

*you there refers to anyone

Tong
R3388

 

[Tong2020]

Not 'about it', but, 'with it'. Lot's of people hear the word of God, but few actually obey it, doing something with it. Once you get born again there is much in the word of God of what we are commanded to do. That's why God saved us. He saved us to raise up a nation and kingdom of people eager to do good.

God saved us and recreated us to be conformed in the image of Jesus Christ because He loved us. That says it all I think.

Tong
R3389

 

[Tong2020]

Unbelievers aren't justified. If you or I go back to unbelief we do not remain justified.

If you and I go back to unbelief, if that were possible, then we are the most foolish of the fools. If not, then neither one of us have truly been born according to the Spirit, by the will of God. That could be that we have been living out of deception coming from our selfish hearts. Meaning we could have believed then for the wrong selfish intents.

What believing one have is his heart’s intents. And all who were born of Adam have this heart according to God, whose every intent is continuously evil. Unless then that God changes that heart, what believing he would have could only be out of what heart he have.

Tong
R3390

 

[Tong2020]

Oh, you mean this.......

The Spirit of the Lord will come powerfully upon you...and you will be changed into a different person. 1 Samuel 10:9​

We should be careful not to misuse that passage.

Tong
R3391

 

[Ferris Bueller]

The only thing that one “MUST” do is to become “Born Again” , right?

So I tell you this, and insist on it in the Lord, that you must no longer walk as the Gentiles do, in the futility of their thinking. Ephesians 4:17

Surely you heard of Him and were taught in Him—in keeping with the truth that is in Jesus— 22to put off your former way of life, your old self, which is being corrupted by its deceitful desires; 23to be renewed in the spirit of your minds; 24and to put on the new self, created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness.25Therefore each of you must put off falsehood and speak truthfully to his neighbor Ephesians 4:21-25
​

Haven't you heard of Him and were taught in Him, in keeping with the truth that is in Jesus, to put off your former way of life? Haven't you been taught that? I don't think I'm misunderstanding you. You keep saying you don't have to. You keep saying you don't have to do what Paul says we are to do.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

What does it mean to you that we are "justified away from sin"?

I've never heard it stated that way, but being justified means being declared righteous.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

We should be careful not to misuse that passage.

Tong
R3391

Can't you tell that you are a different person now that you are born again?

 

[Corlove13]

1 Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:

2 Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,

3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:

4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

5 And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;

6 And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;

7 And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.

8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.

10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

12 Wherefore I will not be negligent to put you always in remembrance of these things, though ye know them, and be established in the present truth.

13 Yea, I think it meet, as long as I am in this tabernacle, to stir you up by putting you in remembrance;

14 Knowing that shortly I must put off this my tabernacle, even as our Lord Jesus Christ hath shewed me.

15 Moreover I will endeavour that ye may be able after my decease to have these things always in remembrance.

16 For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.

17 For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

18 And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount.

19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:

20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.