In post #2 of this thread (page 1) Arnie Martin W. concluded his post, “Hanging on the gentile branch grafted into Israel.”
Let’s examine that.
Romans 11:16 For if the first fruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.
What is the lump? Is the lump fleshly Israel? What is Jesus the first fruit of? Is he the first fruit of fleshly Israel? Or, is he the first fruit of something that began being separated away from fleshly Israel?
If a branch is broken off is it yet part of the lump (or sum of the branches) that the root bears? No, it is not. Therefore the branches that were broken off are not here being considered as a part of the lump. Rather Paul is telling them that God (the Greater Abraham is the root that bears the Jewish branches that yet remain along with those Gentiles now grafted in. Paul is saying, “The root bears you altogether as one lump.” Christ is the the trunk (like as the body of which the branches are connected in.)
17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them, and with them partake of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
Who is the “them” of the phrase “and with them partake”. Clearly it is the branches that were not broken off of the tree.
18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bear not the root, but the root thee.
Boast not against what branches? Boast not against the branches that were broken off? Boast not against the branches that are yet on the branch? Or, boast not against any of the branches whether they are broken off or yet on the branch?
Clearly if a branch is broken off the root no longer bears it, so it must be saying not to boast against the branches that are yet grafted in.
So Paul was disciplining them to pay attention and respect those Jewish branches which are yet on the tree. In other words, “Do not act as if they are nothing and you need not listen to them and work along with them.”
Romans 11:21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
Paul as warning them, “That situation can be reversed, you know?”
And if their situation could be reversed then it follows that Romans 11:23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.
After all, If God can repent his calling in of the Gentile wild branches then surely he can repent the cutting off those natural branches. But this is not saying that God intends to do so.
Romans 11:24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?
That is reasonable and neither is it saying God intends to do so.
The word translated “until” in the next verse is a trouble maker:
Romans 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles be come in.
The phrase “in part” means “partly because”. It does not mean this is the total reason why.
The thought “until the fullness of the Gentiles be come in” is talking about the very last thing that happens. We do not see the fullness of the Gentiles having come in until the great crowd is revealed after the Great Tribulation.
And by that point it becomes irrelevant about fleshly Israel for all of the elect had been selected and sealed before the tribulation as shown earlier in Revelation chapter 7.
Let’s examine that.
Romans 11:16 For if the first fruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.
What is the lump? Is the lump fleshly Israel? What is Jesus the first fruit of? Is he the first fruit of fleshly Israel? Or, is he the first fruit of something that began being separated away from fleshly Israel?
If a branch is broken off is it yet part of the lump (or sum of the branches) that the root bears? No, it is not. Therefore the branches that were broken off are not here being considered as a part of the lump. Rather Paul is telling them that God (the Greater Abraham is the root that bears the Jewish branches that yet remain along with those Gentiles now grafted in. Paul is saying, “The root bears you altogether as one lump.” Christ is the the trunk (like as the body of which the branches are connected in.)
17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them, and with them partake of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
Who is the “them” of the phrase “and with them partake”. Clearly it is the branches that were not broken off of the tree.
18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bear not the root, but the root thee.
Boast not against what branches? Boast not against the branches that were broken off? Boast not against the branches that are yet on the branch? Or, boast not against any of the branches whether they are broken off or yet on the branch?
Clearly if a branch is broken off the root no longer bears it, so it must be saying not to boast against the branches that are yet grafted in.
So Paul was disciplining them to pay attention and respect those Jewish branches which are yet on the tree. In other words, “Do not act as if they are nothing and you need not listen to them and work along with them.”
Romans 11:21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
Paul as warning them, “That situation can be reversed, you know?”
And if their situation could be reversed then it follows that Romans 11:23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.
After all, If God can repent his calling in of the Gentile wild branches then surely he can repent the cutting off those natural branches. But this is not saying that God intends to do so.
Romans 11:24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?
That is reasonable and neither is it saying God intends to do so.
The word translated “until” in the next verse is a trouble maker:
Romans 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles be come in.
The phrase “in part” means “partly because”. It does not mean this is the total reason why.
The thought “until the fullness of the Gentiles be come in” is talking about the very last thing that happens. We do not see the fullness of the Gentiles having come in until the great crowd is revealed after the Great Tribulation.
And by that point it becomes irrelevant about fleshly Israel for all of the elect had been selected and sealed before the tribulation as shown earlier in Revelation chapter 7.