Why Jews And Gentiles Are Kept Separate ??

[bud02]

Can't resist futility, hey bud02?

That is an interesting part of Isaiah. Back at that time it had to do with the Assyrian king Sargon II. The future counter part takes place when we hit the state of Sodom and Egypt ion a spiritual sense as Revelation 11 talks about.

Revelation 11:8 "And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified."

As far as the fleshly nations go, it is only a remnant of each of them saved just as with Israel. I know a few good scriptures that show that but I am getting tired.

It has a lot to do with what Jesus prayed: John 17:15- 16 "I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.
They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world."

You aren't musing about the pyramids are you? That section of Isaiah used to be used by many that claimed there was a spiritual connection between the pyramids and God's temple in Jerusalem. They even claimed that certain measurements in the pyramid hallways gave the exact number of years until the Great Tribulation. I see it as stepping outside of God's word to believe that stuff.

I am tired. Later !!!

Futility? Perhaps you have a point, but I don't necessarily consider observation and research where ever, or what ever it may be, in light of the illuminating light of Christ as an exercise in futility. As for looking into pyramids and or the great pyramid, yes I have and have looked into many other things the pulpit preachers dismiss as of the devil in a single sentence. IMO from the time of the tower of Babel to Abraham the bible is for the most part silent, but that does not necessarily mean God simply dismissed this entire section of history into the hands of the devil. The verses in Isaiah.call the Egyptians “Blessed is Egypt My people, and Assyria the work of My hands, and Israel My inheritance.” We know that Joseph married a pretests of Egypt and from this union came Ephrem and Manassa to whom Jacob / Israel blessed. In our earlier conversation the study of Matthew indicates that Jesus became or fulfilled the Prophets words, that starts with "out of Egypt I have called my Son" Well that's enough in its self for me to not entirely dismiss Egypt as simply being of the devil. Romans 9:16-18 don't you suppose grace may as well been as it is now extended to all men? Even before the time of Gods election of Abraham threw whome all the world now more clearly sees Gods divine plan and purpose?

The heavens declare the glory of God Psalm 19:1 The constellations and the stars are found in the very oldest writings every where on earth. But the pulpits today attribute all such inquires into the subject as of the devil. The fact of the matter is in hind sight knowing the message of Christ threw the writings of Moses ect. 66 Books written over a period of about 1500 years by over 40 authors it no its no stretch to see the message of salvation in them. The very fact that those people understood the procession of the earth and the could predict the conjunctions is something that was lost to modern men until recently. Galileo wrote; mathematics is the language by which God wrote the universe. Einstein from reading his personal notes in my opinion believed in God, just google search for his quotes. He gave us the theory of relativity, its not a theory any longer its the very core of our GPS satellite system, without applying the theory of relativity it would be uselessly inaccurate.

I could go on and on about science both bio and physics, ancient beliefs as well as modern beliefs the fact is I leave no stone unturned. I witness to people that have been to church, know the basic message of salvation but because of knowledge and the questions it brings have no use for simple explanations from the pulpit such as its of the devil.
One such message that emulates from the pulpits today is the earth is 6 thousand years old. Now thats believing in faith to which I have no problem but it also ignores the application of facts such as Einsteins concept of relativity, time and space is relative according to your point of observation. Read this if your up to it.
http://www.aish.com/...m/48951136.html

Here's another little piece of information. Did you know that the number 666 has a history and artifacts. http://www.christian...dpost__p__87491

Have you ever wondered the during the time of Constantine how was it that he could take all the pagan religions of Rome and combine them into the "christian" religion basically overnight? I propose that it was because they were all a reflection of the truth that we know as Jesus Christ, in whom all men receive the truth of salvation. By no other name shall you be saved. If you deny me before men I will deny you before the Father Matthew 10:33 A quick study of ancient beliefs leaves no doubt that you can easily change the names and see the same message that we have received threw the Hebrew writers known as the Bible. Like I said above, the most important thing I learned in the years of revelation the Lord has shown me is " don't make the mistakes of those that have gone before you ". In parting its clear threw Pauls letters and the 7 churches in Rev that all were falling short of the complete message. I look at the JW the SDA, the Pentecostals, Baptist, Methodist, Presbyterian, Catholic, ect ect ect to both what the teach and their history, My Grand father impressed upon me one day, we were talking about a mentally retarded boy that lived down the street. He said this, Bruce, you can learn something from anyone. I've found those words to be the truth.Matthew 13:44

 

[veteran]

I do not see where he ever made promises to the flesh but that he put conditions on them they did not abide. Perhaps you would be kind enough to give me a precise example of where he did?

And what we see with our eyes of flesh, is flesh. The things seen we are clearly told are temporal. (2 Corinthians 4:18)

Can't just pull out a verse like that and try to use it for your own aims. Paul was speaking of the future resurrection with that. And even that still does not exclude the seed of Israel from God's promises, not today, nor in Christ's future manifested Kingdom on this earth at His coming.

Jer.31 about God's promises to flesh Israel is one of many examples that God will never cast them away, nor miraculously erase those promises from them on this earth. To Him, they will always exist as His Israel, in the world to come also. That's why Paul says in Rom.11 that in time unbelieving Israel will be saved, but in God's timing, not man's.

I am not so certain that we can really prove that is actually Judah there today. But even if we were able to it is all part of the temporal things seen. You would have to prove to me that God is going to use this flesh at all. So please present those things and I will consider them.

Then you're not certain about what God's Word teaches about it. That's the real truth of this, which shows you've been taught away from what God's Word says on the matter, and have instead accepted something else.

Matt 19:27-28
27 Then answered Peter and said unto Him, "Behold, we have forsaken all, and followed Thee; what shall we have therefore?"
28 And Jesus said unto them, "Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed Me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of His glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel."
(KJV)

That's about Christ's future Kingdom at His coming. How is it He promised His Apostles to reign on thrones over the future twelve tribes of Israel if His Salvation has nothing to do with His promises to Israel for this present world? How is it He shows the resurrection will still not change that? Might want to read Ezekiel 47-48 also which is still future for Christ's coming.

I could go on and on with showing how God's promises to the seed of Israel in His Salvation is a lliteral matter, and not some spiritualization which men's doctrines try to discard in exalting their own status in vanity. I've already posted quite a bit of Scripture proof on this which you've obviously passed over in order to try and push other ideas instead by multiplying your posts. You can post a thousand more times against the Scripture and all you'll be doing is getting farther and farther away from Holy Writ about it, going around in circles instead of coming to the real truth of the matter.

I agree with what you say there but it is not at all that I don't look to the OT as you say, but that you and I see different things about the very same passages when we do.

That does not need be a bad thing. Let's see if between what we both see, we both can refine our understanding a bit. Let's try to let "Iron sharpen iron".

It's not about agreeing with me. It's about agreeing with God's Word as written. Not every Scripture has some hidden meaning behind it. But God did give some Scripture that does have a hidden meaning to hide from the profane (like Ezek.17). To understand that part He is The Only One Who can give to understand it; not by me, nor by any other man. The key is to make sure we listen to Him first, and not men's doctrines.

 

[Vengle53]

timestamp='1296327619' post='98781']
Futility? Perhaps you have a point, but I don't necessarily consider observation and research where ever, or what ever it may be, in light of the illuminating light of Christ as an exercise in futility. As for looking into pyramids and or the great pyramid, yes I have and have looked into many other things the pulpit preachers dismiss as of the devil in a single sentence. IMO from the time of the tower of Babel to Abraham the bible is for the most part silent, but that does not necessarily mean God simply dismissed this entire section of history into the hands of the devil. The verses in Isaiah.call the Egyptians “Blessed is Egypt My people, and Assyria the work of My hands, and Israel My inheritance.” We know that Joseph married a pretests of Egypt and from this union came Ephrem and Manassa to whom Jacob / Israel blessed. In our earlier conversation the study of Matthew indicates that Jesus became or fulfilled the Prophets words, that starts with "out of Egypt I have called my Son" Well that's enough in its self for me to not entirely dismiss Egypt as simply being of the devil. Romans 9:16-18 don't you suppose grace may as well been as it is now extended to all men? Even before the time of Gods election of Abraham threw whome all the world now more clearly sees Gods divine plan and purpose?

While there is a certain amount of truth in what you speak, I stand by 2 Timothy 3:16 "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness."

The Bible writers did not see fit to expound concerning the pyramids and that is good enough for me. I will keep myself busy focusing on what they as my elders saw to be the more important things. If you feel that makes me wrong, you are only doing to me what many did to them.

The heavens declare the glory of God Psalm 19:1 The constellations and the stars are found in the very oldest writings every where on earth. But the pulpits today attribute all such inquires into the subject as of the devil. The fact of the matter is in hind sight knowing the message of Christ threw the writings of Moses ect. 66 Books written over a period of about 1500 years by over 40 authors it no its no stretch to see the message of salvation in them. The very fact that those people understood the procession of the earth and the could predict the conjunctions is something that was lost to modern men until recently. Galileo wrote; mathematics is the language by which God wrote the universe. Einstein from reading his personal notes in my opinion believed in God, just google search for his quotes. He gave us the theory of relativity, its not a theory any longer its the very core of our GPS satellite system, without applying the theory of relativity it would be uselessly inaccurate.

Yes indeed. However the pyramids are man's creation.

I could go on and on about science both bio and physics, ancient beliefs as well as modern beliefs the fact is I leave no stone unturned. I witness to people that have been to church, know the basic message of salvation but because of knowledge and the questions it brings have no use for simple explanations from the pulpit such as its of the devil.
One such message that emulates from the pulpits today is the earth is 6 thousand years old. Now thats believing in faith to which I have no problem but it also ignores the application of facts such as Einsteins concept of relativity, time and space is relative according to your point of observation. Read this if your up to it.
http://www.aish.com/...m/48951136.html

I thoroughly understand the Bible's view on that and have deeply searched out the three age theory. I am not an advocate of it. The Bible does not support it. Men merely stretch what is in the Bible to make it seem so. When the Bible gives the creation account it gives no set time limit for any of the creative periods. Time as men count it was not even set in motion until the fourth day and at the start of chapter two it calls the first six days one day. The thought Peter expressed that "to God a thousand years is as one day" directly cancels out time against "and one day is a thousand years". Then in Psalms we find that David compares a thosand years to a Hebrew 4 hour watch in the night.

It was the know-it-all self proclaimed teachers of Christianity trying to teach those creative days as twenty-four hour days that caused all of the trouble.

I see no major conflict between the Bible and most of provable science. But most of evolution is not real science as they cannot conform it to the rules of science but by immagination and invention. It comes as no surprise that they try.

Here's another little piece of information. Did you know that the number 666 has a history and artifacts. http://www.christian...dpost__p__87491

Nothing there I am not familiar with.

Have you ever wondered the during the time of Constantine how was it that he could take all the pagan religions of Rome and combine them into the "christian" religion basically overnight? I propose that it was because they were all a reflection of the truth that we know as Jesus Christ, in whom all men receive the truth of salvation. By no other name shall you be saved. If you deny me before men I will deny you before the Father Matthew 10:33 A quick study of ancient beliefs leaves no doubt that you can easily change the names and see the same message that we have received threw the Hebrew writers known as the Bible. Like I said above, the most important thing I learned in the years of revelation the Lord has shown me is " don't make the mistakes of those that have gone before you ". In parting its clear threw Pauls letters and the 7 churches in Rev that all were falling short of the complete message. I look at the JW the SDA, the Pentecostals, Baptist, Methodist, Presbyterian, Catholic, ect ect ect to both what the teach and their history, My Grand father impressed upon me one day, we were talking about a mentally retarded boy that lived down the street. He said this, Bruce, you can learn something from anyone. I've found those words to be the truth.Matthew 13:44

Having actually studied Constantines history and the history of the Catholic church I well know why those ideas took hold. The one's that resisted were slain. That does not seem very Christ-like to me.

You have taken a turn bud02 and I am seeing a different side of you.

 

[Vengle53]

What is befalling most who profess to be Christians is that they do not see that what has happened to the Catholic church is exactly the thing foreshadowed by what happened to the kingdom of Israel.

Their various doctrines and fratinzations with paganism are exactly the reason God punished Israel.

The split whereby there came to be for a little while a two tribe kingdom and a ten tribe kingdom of legitimate Israleites as to flesh is the protestant breakaway led at first by Martin Luther.

The ten tribe kingdom being dispersed into the nations compares to when men departed from Luther and dispersed into all the nations, developing further twists of perversions of religion as they went.

Nothing ought to be surprising if you really know your OT as you claim.

 

[bud02]

I'm just going to c/p my reply from the trinity thread over here I feel it address the topic here as well.

Thank you for the reply I have read it over and then read the last line.

I could just as easily reply in the same manor about your silence on the several verses / topics I posted above. As you say that's your right.
In this and the other thread we have been speaking in, its a matter of getting to know one another. I find that we agree on much fundamental doctrine. More than most I meet.
In that please excuse my inquiry into difficult topics but remember silence is not the answer nor does it cause the question of biblical, physical and historical evidence to go away. In so much I will always agree that the Hebrews / Jews hold the finial key to salvation John 4:22 . To that end I will never relent or compromise. For someone to imply differently about myself, they will always be meet with opposition.

I do enjoy conversing with you and now that I know your limits or boundaries, I'll be certain not to mention anything other than direct biblical references. All other topics are not beneficial in your opinion. God help the people that are bound by such topics, who will go down to them and help them out? Its pretty evident in the world today that simply quoting scripture does little, their hearts are hard, and they have heard it 100's of times before. But understanding what, when, where and why they believe what the do you can reason with them and as Paul writes; its the renewing of their mind. Romans 12:2 transformed by the renewal of your mind. In the power of the HS of course. One problem with the pulpit today is it doesn't afford dialog, you sit you listen and you go home, for many with their questions unanswered..... 1 Peter 3:16 in my opinion that means the man of science, history or the man of the occult. You know as well as I do that those conversations soon reach into topics that most christian consider tabo and that is true in context its not the truth as we know it. Understanding their beliefs can be a great tool in the hands of the Holy Spirit. Of course this is a choice as you previously stated.

 

[bud02]

1 Peter 3:15 should be above not 16

 

[Vengle53]

I'm just going to c/p my reply from the trinity thread over here I feel it address the topic here as well.

Thank you for the reply I have read it over and then read the last line.

I could just as easily reply in the same manor about your silence on the several verses / topics I posted above. As you say that's your right.
In this and the other thread we have been speaking in, its a matter of getting to know one another. I find that we agree on much fundamental doctrine. More than most I meet.
In that please excuse my inquiry into difficult topics but remember silence is not the answer nor does it cause the question of biblical, physical and historical evidence to go away. In so much I will always agree that the Hebrews / Jews hold the finial key to salvation John 4:22 . To that end I will never relent or compromise. For someone to imply differently about myself, they will always be meet with opposition.

I do enjoy conversing with you and now that I know your limits or boundaries, I'll be certain not to mention anything other than direct biblical references. All other topics are not beneficial in your opinion. God help the people that are bound by such topics, who will go down to them and help them out? Its pretty evident in the world today that simply quoting scripture does little, their hearts are hard, and they have heard it 100's of times before. But understanding what, when, where and why they believe what the do you can reason with them and as Paul writes; its the renewing of their mind. Romans 12:2 transformed by the renewal of your mind. In the power of the HS of course. One problem with the pulpit today is it doesn't afford dialog, you sit you listen and you go home, for many with their questions unanswered..... 1 Peter 3:16 in my opinion that means the man of science, history or the man of the occult. You know as well as I do that those conversations soon reach into topics that most christian consider tabo and that is true in context its not the truth as we know it. Understanding their beliefs can be a great tool in the hands of the Holy Spirit. Of course this is a choice as you previously stated.

Believe it or not I had typed a very long discussion with that post #127 but it disappeared when I posted it.

Oh well. LOL. Too tired to type it again.

 

[veteran]

Hey Bud02,

Another thing just occurred to me as to part of their confusion.

They have the wrong view of the promised land.

They do not understand that the land in the earthly nation of Israel being given them after taking it away from its inhabiting nations pictured what would happen to the entire earth. That promised land was the prototype for the entire earth being promised to Christ Jesus, his elect brothers, and all of their children from out of all nations, the true lost sheep of the spiritual house of spiritual Israel.

1 Chronicles 28:2 Then David the king stood up upon his feet, and said, Hear me, my brethren, and my people: As for me, I had in mine heart to build an house of rest for the ark of the covenant of the LORD, and for the footstool of our God, and had made ready for the building:

Isaiah 66:1 Thus saith the LORD, The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool: where is the house that ye build unto me? and where is the place of my rest?

Acts 7:49 Heaven is my throne, and earth is my footstool: what house will ye build me? saith the Lord: or what is the place of my rest?

Psalms 132:7 We will go into his tabernacles: we will worship at his footstool.

Once again you pull out a verse here and a verse there, and re-interpret it for your own aims, leaving Scripture context behind.

Zech 8:22-23
22 Yea, many people and strong nations shall come to seek the LORD of hosts in Jerusalem, and to pray before the LORD.
23 Thus saith the LORD of hosts; In those days it shall come to pass, that ten men shall take hold out of all languages of the nations, even shall take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying, "We will go with you: for we have heard that God is with you."
(KJV)

You mean there's still going to be a distinction between Israelites and Gentiles in Christ's future Kingdom? Yes, as that above verse shows, as also the fact that Christ promised His Apostles they would rule over the 12 tribes of Israel in His Kingdom.


The following Scripture is for mockers against God's promises to Israel...

Jer 33:24-26
24 Considerest thou not what this people have spoken, saying, "The two families which the LORD hath chosen, He hath even cast them off?" thus they have despised My people, that they should be no more a nation before them.

Have you considered what people say, that the two Houses ("families) of Israel which God chose, that He cast them off? That's pointing to folks like yourself that want to separate literal Israel apart from God's Plan of Salvation per His promises to them.

Thus they (Gentiles) have despised His people, He says, that they should no more be a nation in their (Gentiles) eyes.


But God instead answers to that...

25 Thus saith the LORD; If My covenant be not with day and night, and if I have not appointed the ordinances of heaven and earth;
26 Then will I cast away the seed of Jacob, and David My servant, so that I will not take any of his seed to be rulers over the seed of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob: for I will cause their captivity to return, and have mercy on them.
(KJV)

If God's covenant is not with day and night, and if He has not appointed the ordinances of heaven and earth, then... you can believe that He will cast off the Seed of Jacob, and His servant David, so there will be no rulers over literal Israel. His covenant with day and night is still standing today isn't it? Yeah, I'm pretty sure it is. Likewise are His ordinances of heaven and earth. So...

Therefore, God's covenant with day and night, and His appointed ordinances of heaven and earth, stand AGAINST your false witness against His promises to His people Israel.

That is the dangerous ground you put yourself upon by trying to throw His promises to His people Israel away so as to promote your own Salvation agenda.


And what did God say about the lands of promise He gave to Israel forever?

Jer 31:3-17
3 The LORD hath appeared of old unto me, saying, Yea, I have loved thee with an everlasting love: therefore with lovingkindness have I drawn thee.
4 Again I will build thee, and thou shalt be built, O virgin of Israel: thou shalt again be adorned with thy tabrets, and shalt go forth in the dances of them that make merry.

God has loved His chosen of Israel with an "everlasting love"? Wow, that means forever, past, present, and future, eternality!


5 Thou shalt yet plant vines upon the mountains of Samaria: the planters shall plant, and shall eat them as common things.

The children of Israel will yet again plant vines upon the mountains of Samaria? Hey, that's the original lands where the ten tribes of Israel were taken from by the kings of Assyria? How is it God says they will once again plant vines there, especially since those areas north of Jerusalem belong to non-Israelites today?


6 For there shall be a day, that the watchmen upon the mount Ephraim shall cry, Arise ye, and let us go up to Zion unto the LORD our God.
7 For thus saith the LORD; Sing with gladness for Jacob, and shout among the chief of the nations: publish ye, praise ye, and say, O LORD, save Thy people, the remnant of Israel.

Shout among "the chief of the nations"? You mean Israel is the chief of nations per God? Yes, He chose them.


Where are those children of Israel going to return back to those lands from in final?

8 Behold, I will bring them from the north country, and gather them from the coasts of the earth, and with them the blind and the lame, the woman with child and her that travaileth with child together: a great company shall return thither.
9 They shall come with weeping, and with supplications will I lead them: I will cause them to walk by the rivers of waters in a straight way, wherein they shall not stumble: for I am a father to Israel, and Ephraim is My firstborn.

Out of the "north country" and from the "coasts of the earth"? That's especially about the locations the ten tribes of Israel were scattered among the Gentiles to. A company of them will return to the holy lands of God's promise? Yep. That's what He said.

God sees Israel as a father does a son, and the tribe of Ephraim as His firstborn? Yep. Ephraim is head over the ten scattered tribes of Israel, still today. That's about God's Birthright Promises to the Seed of Israel.


10 Hear the word of the LORD, O ye nations, and declare it in the isles afar off, and say, He That scattered Israel will gather him, and keep him, as a shepherd doth his flock.

Uh oh, this time our Heavenly Father is specifically talking to Gentiles with that 10th verse! This is for you doubters of the nations... HEAR The Word of The LORD you nations. Hear what? Not only hear, but declare it; for He That scattered the seed of Israel will gather him, and KEEP him, just as a good shepherd does his flock of sheep.


11 For the LORD hath redeemed Jacob, and ransomed him from the hand of him that was stronger than he.
12 Therefore they shall come and sing in the height of Zion, and shall flow together to the goodness of the LORD, for wheat, and for wine, and for oil, and for the young of the flock and of the herd: and their soul shall be as a watered garden; and they shall not sorrow any more at all.
13 Then shall the virgin rejoice in the dance, both young men and old together: for I will turn their mourning into joy, and will comfort them, and make them rejoice from their sorrow.
14 And I will satiate the soul of the priests with fatness, and My people shall be satisfied with My goodness, saith the LORD.

That's about God's redeeming of Israel (Jacob). Do we know believing Gentiles will be included in that? Yes, that is, if those Gentiles turn away from rebellion against God's chosen Israel, and want to become part of the "commonwealth of Israel" like Apostle Paul showed in Ephesians 2. But if Gentiles think to form their 'own' Salvation, trying to be apart from God's promises to His chosen Israel, then those Gentiles will be doing a work of vanity, and will be like the five foolish virgins.


15 Thus saith the LORD; A voice was heard in Ramah, lamentation, and bitter weeping; Rahel weeping for her children refused to be comforted for her children, because they were not.
16 Thus saith the LORD; Refrain thy voice from weeping, and thine eyes from tears: for thy work shall be rewarded, saith the LORD; and they shall come again from the land of the enemy.
17 And there is hope in thine end, saith the LORD, that thy children shall come again to their own border.
(KJV)

What's that? Who will return to their 'own' border, coming out of the land of the enemy? That's about the seed of Israel returning in final to the lands of promise God first gave to Abraham. Well what's that land going to be called then under Christ Jesus? The land of Gentiles? No, the land of Israel, even in final.

 

[veteran]

[/font]

While there is a certain amount of truth in what you speak, I stand by 2 Timothy 3:16 "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness."

The Bible writers did not see fit to expound concerning the pyramids and that is good enough for me. I will keep myself busy focusing on what they as my elders saw to be the more important things. If you feel that makes me wrong, you are only doing to me what many did to them.
[/size][/font]

Yes indeed. However the pyramids are man's creation.

Well, at least Bud02 has taken time to at least read Isaiah 19, while it's clear you have not brother...

Isa 19:19-25
19 In that day shall there be an altar to the LORD in the midst of the land of Egypt, and a pillar at the border thereof to the LORD.
20 And it shall be for a sign and for a witness unto the LORD of hosts in the land of Egypt: for they shall cry unto the LORD because of the oppressors, and He shall send them a saviour, and a great one, and He shall deliver them.
21 And the LORD shall be known to Egypt, and the Egyptians shall know the LORD in that day, and shall do sacrifice and oblation; yea, they shall vow a vow unto the LORD, and perform it.
22 And the LORD shall smite Egypt: He shall smite and heal it: and they shall return even to the LORD, and He shall be intreated of them, and shall heal them.
23 In that day shall there be a highway out of Egypt to Assyria, and the Assyrian shall come into Egypt, and the Egyptian into Assyria, and the Egyptians shall serve with the Assyrians.
24 In that day shall Israel be the third with Egypt and with Assyria, even a blessing in the midst of the land:
25 Whom the LORD of hosts shall bless, saying, Blessed be Egypt My people, and Assyria the work of My hands, and Israel Mine inheritance.
(KJV)

The "pillar at the border" of Egypt is pointing to the Great Pyramid of Giza. Per the exploration chronology of the Great Pyramid, there's no archaeological evidence that the Egyptians built it. No tombs, no pharaoh found, no Egyptian burial artifacts ever found in it, etc. The only Egyptian inscription found was above the threshold of the Queen's Chamber, and was dated as an addition long after the Pyramid was built. All the other pyramids were built later, and are imperfections compared to the Great Pyramid. It shows the Egyptians had tried to reverse engineer the Great Pyramid and could not.

That Isaiah Scripture is about God's future Kingdom. Egypt and Assyria will be one-third with Israel, showing God's future Kingdom spread out from Egypt north to Assyria, with a highway connecting all three together.

 

[veteran]

JWs also taught that only the 144,000 are spiritual Israelites. That is true in a sense as one must prove to be a prevails with God to have that status. But in the case of these other sheep throughout each generation we cannot yet say which ones of them will in the finale prove to be Israelites. They are the ones left in that world-wide Israel of Revelation 7 after the elect had all been selected out. Then the entire field is left to enter the greatest tribulation the world has ever known where those other sheep of that generation are shaken loose from the tares and the tares are destroyed once and for all times. That last tribulation is specifically for shaking loose the nucleus number of other sheep that are yet alive in that last generation and the taught but not as yet fully matured will be resurrected to join them. None of them really are said to come alive until the thousand years are ended. That is because they must become holy as he is holy. That means they will have to pass the final hour of testing. Revelation 7:17 For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.

There again, does it really matter what the JW believe, or any other religious system of men? God's Word is what matters, what God says.

The 144,000 of Rev.7 are literal flesh Israelites, 12,000 from each tribe of Israel as written. The great multitude of Rev.7:9 forward are the Gentiles. Both groups are sealed with God's sealing to go through the great tribulation. All those, both groups, represent Christ's elect. Only 3 of those 12 tribes are Jews. The rest are of the ten lost tribes scattered among the Gentiles, having lost their heritage as literal Israel. But when Christ returns, then they will learn of their heritage as part of literal Israel. Many of them are being awakened in that already today, as God is preparing them in His sealing for the coming tribulation that is to come upon the whole world.

Your idea of a group being "selected out" with those of Rev.7 to be "left in that world-wide Israel" is a false doctrine. THAT'S THE PRE-TRIB SECRET RAPTURE THEORY.

I knew you'd reveal your belief in that false secret rapture doctrine eventually. Your belief in that false doctrine depends upon your confusion about God's Israel and the split of Israel into two Houses today.

 

[veteran]

Some of the lost sheep of the house of Israel have been right in front of us all along. Let’s reason a minute on that thought.

Jesus plainly said: “I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.” (Matthew 15:24)

But if Jesus while in the flesh was sent to none but “the lost sheep of the house of Israel” can it be correctly assumed that the 12 Apostles and the above five hundred brethren that Paul mentions at 1[sup]st[/sup] Corinthians 15: 5-8 were also “lost sheep of the house of Israel”?

No, that cannot be assumed. It's because of all the Scripture in the OT Books that show how the "house of Israel" is defined in God's Word after the historical split of Israel into two separate kingdoms, past Solomon's days. It's Biblical ignorance to assume our Lord Jesus and His Apostles, and even the scribes and Pharisees were ignorant of that history, even though you are willingly ignorant of it.

Another reason is, because our Lord Jesus specifically used the identifier of "house of Israel" with that "lost sheep" phrase. If He had said only "lost sheep", then the Jeremiah 50 Scripture would apply to both Houses of Israel, the Jews and the ten tribes together.

It takes just a little common sense to understand why He said "lost sheep of the house of Israel", and not "lost sheep" only.

The proof is where His Salvation was rejected, and where His Salvation was accepted.

The majority of the House of Judah (Jews) refused His Salvation, even as it is to this day.

But His Salvation was first accepted among the Gentiles in Asia Minor and western Europe. And among those Gentiles is where the majority of Israel, the "house of Israel" part, was scattered to.

Thusly, what our Lord Jesus said, "I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel," happenned literally and historically.

 

[veteran]

If the promises of God were never transferred via the flesh, then why did birthrights exist?

Got to first understand there's a difference between a simple birthright of flesh fathers to sons vs. God's Birthright to Israel as a chosen nation to take His Salvation to all nations.

If man were perfect and without sin, then promises and privileges could be passed by the flesh and it would lend to the order of man’s arrangement. No one would be insulted or try to usurp anyone else and man would by their orderliness and untainted image be an honor to God. For our God is a God of order, not of disorder. Our God does all things orderly and by arrangement.

Man's thinking and ways cannot Disannul God's Birthright to His chosen elect of Israel. To think God is not able to keep His Promised Birthright through His elect of Israel is to try and limit His Power. Why does man want to assign carnal ways to how God has worked through His elect throughout history? Your reasoning sounds like you're just throwing away all that rich Bible history.

Before Adam sinned that is how it was intended to be. But once Adam sinned, due to the corruption in our flesh by sin, it brought corruption into our ability to image God’s orderliness. But that did not mean that man would stop or should stop trying to live by the rules of order taught them from Adam forward. It merely meant that God would not use that corrupted version of the image of His orderliness.

What craziness are you talking about? God USES His elect to WORK HIS WILL, REGARDLESS OF THEIR OWN WILL. It ain't about confusion of order nor anything of the sort. And you're totally deluded if you think man's weakness of the flesh prevents God from accomplishing what He said He will do! If God can cause Balaam's donkey to talk to get His Will done, then how in the world could man's flesh ever get in His Way? God can even cause Satan's workers to say and do what He wants. Don't confuse God's called elect that He got the job done through with those not called which rebelled.

Isa 55:11
11 So shall My word be that goeth forth out of My mouth: it shall not return unto Me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.
(KJV)

Therefore God would not leave it to man’s corrupted flesh to pass the promises; instead choosing who would and who would not receive the blessings along the way to Christ. And make no mistake about it, all of the promises of God pointed to Christ and are fulfilled in Christ.

That's another spirit speaking through you. It is not from God.

All the Patriarchs, prophets, and Apostles were CHOSEN BY GOD, ALL THE WAY DOWN TO CHRIST JESUS' FIRST COMING. God told Moses He knew him by name. He told Jeremiah He knew him before he was in his mother's womb. God took Enoch and Elijah without them having to even die. Only an evil spirit would say the things you're saying against God's calling and election to do His Work throughout Bible history.

From the moment God gave man dominion in the first chapter of Genesis it was intended that we would listen to God and image God and reflect all of his ways. So they still had a lot of the ways as taught from the beginning, most of which have gotten near completely lost in this day and age as man’s imperfection reaches its 6 to the third degree of intensity.

What? What "6 to the third degree of intensity"? That's crazy talk.

God's ability to work His Salvation through His elect cannot be prevented by man's fallen nature. His Salvation Promises going through His elect is not dependent upon some baloney idea of flesh imperfection or lack of order.

God has worked His Promises to Israel through His election. And from them His Salvation has gone to the Gentiles. And among the Gentiles He has continued His Work through an elect among them, while continuing to work through His elect of Israel. But the devil's servants still follow after the flesh and carnal things of this world while listening to their father,, not understanding God's Word is Power, sharp like a two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit (Heb.4:12).

 

[veteran]

And what I find really interesting is that God allowed kings and priests within Israel's fleshly society to be passed along by birthright just so we could see how well that mode does not work with sinful men. In so doing he masquaraded the corrupt condition of our flesh before the eyes of the entire world so that no one has an excuse to be prideful of their flesh.

Look how many corrupt kings and priests they suffered.

Philippians 3:3 For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.

With that kind of thinking, maybe you wonder at how even YOU could become a believer in God?

Haven't you ever wondered why Israel's kings always fell short, even king David, a man after God's own heart? They were never meant to be a replacement for God as our True King. That's why they fall short.

But that still does not mean we have the right to mock God's ordaining of kings over Israel. Commies and atheists love to mock the idea of monarchy rule just so they can try to get power over the masses. Careful you don't latch onto their ways of thinking, which is what you sound like. God Bless The Queen of England and all the Royal Monarchs of Europe (and I'm an American)!!!!

Some day you'll understand how monarchy rule is the BEST government, when Christ as King of Righteousness comes to rule with a rod of iron. Lot of folks today who hate the idea of monarchy rule by divine right aren't going to like Christ's future reign with that rod either. I say tough.

 

[Vengle53]

With that kind of thinking, maybe you wonder at how even YOU could become a believer in God?

Haven't you ever wondered why Israel's kings always fell short, even king David, a man after God's own heart? They were never meant to be a replacement for God as our True King. That's why they fall short.

But that still does not mean we have the right to mock God's ordaining of kings over Israel. Commies and atheists love to mock the idea of monarchy rule just so they can try to get power over the masses. Careful you don't latch onto their ways of thinking, which is what you sound like. God Bless The Queen of England and all the Royal Monarchs of Europe (and I'm an American)!!!!

Some day you'll understand how monarchy rule is the BEST government, when Christ as King of Righteousness comes to rule with a rod of iron. Lot of folks today who hate the idea of monarchy rule by divine right aren't going to like Christ's future reign with that rod either. I say tough.

You make chuckle. I am now 58 and I had a super strong belief in God ever scince I am able to recall anything of infancy. I have never in all of my years doubted He is and is real. It certainly was not knowledge as men know it that gave that faith to me. I never had to work at having that faith. It seemed as natural to me as my right arm. I never questioned why I had that faith. I somehow simply knew.

I can now see that that childhood innocent faith was why Satan tried so hard to bring me down over the years. I understand that knowledge was not what having that faith depended upon. I understand that knowledge was what God wanted me to pursue that I might be able to protect myself from the attacks that the sin in myself and in men and Satan himself would heap upon me. And as I look back I can see where because I had that faith God stepped in to rescue me at certain points of the suffering which I experienced of my own ignorance. He stepped in many times, so that I would not become completely broken; so that I would be able to continue on with learning.

I am not saying that he did not discipline me. I have had past moments when I asked God why it seemed that others who did the same things or even worse than myself seemed to suffer no consequences. Today I no longer ask that. Today I am glad that he saw to my paying the price of my own foolishness and made sure that I suffered to learn.

I appreciate what you say about it being intended that God himself be our only king. 1 Samuel 10:19 "And ye have this day rejected your God, who himself saved you out of all your adversities and your tribulations; and ye have said unto him, Nay, but set a king over us. Now therefore present yourselves before the LORD by your tribes, and by your thousands."

I ask you now to see deeper. Hebrews 8:11 "And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest." (Jeremiah 31:34)

I ask you now to see deeper that a man or a woman was never meant to have to need to be governed of anything external; but by their love of God regulating in their individual hearts.

That is why after all has been brought back to God in Christ Jesus: 1 Corinthians 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

How long does Christ's Messianic kingdom riegn? (That stone cut out of God's mountain?) 1 Corinthians 15:25 "For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet."

How then will men be ruled? Romans 2:14-16 "For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another
16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel."

 

[bud02]

Great post Walking in Grace.

I to share the kind of faith you mentioned.
When I was born in Storm Lake IA, I remember a thunderstorm and being scared. My mom and dad took the opportunity to explain some basics about God. I might have been three or four well before I started school. I had a doll that was a clown a hobo looking clown, I was watching Red Shelton he had caught my eye simply because he looked like my doll. I'll never forget that at the end of the show the camera zoomed in and he said "and my God richly bless you", and wham it hit me like wave, it took me by such surprise it startled me, took my breath away, after the initial impact I was shouting to mom and dad sitting on the couch behind me, did you see that? did you see that? I've been following that Spirit ever since I'm 52 soon to be 53. Just thought I'd share that with you as well.

 

[Vengle53]

If anyone does not see what I have pointed out in post #134 then neither have they yet fully grasped the Messianic kingdom by Christ Jesus, and they do not yet know the kingdom of God as to how it rules.

That bit of understanding I have pointed out in post #134 is essential to understanding much of the scriptures, and especially Paul's writings.

For what I have mentioned in post #134 is the end goal of what is taking place in Christ Jesus.

Understanding this puts to rest the misguided idea that not all are in Christ. I say that because Jehovah's Witnesses (a beautiful and loving people that they are) teach that only the 144,000 are in Christ. But there is no two sets of rules. There are no two ways. All must learn the same lessons.

There are merely different appointments along the way to getting to that end. And while Jehovah's Witnesses do have a great deal of knowledge, they have not yet fully understood.

That makes them no worse than any other group.

I was brought to stand on the outside and made to observe all of the groups for many years. I had no choice in that matter, for where my heart desired to be God would not allow. I was placed on the outside of everyone to understand why. And I have understood.

But at points when I thought I understood enough and I began to say to God, "OK, I have listen, now put me to use" , He said to me, "You have not yet understood enough."

Great post Walking in Grace.

I to share the kind of faith you mentioned.
When I was born in Storm Lake IA, I remember a thunderstorm and being scared. My mom and dad took the opportunity to explain some basics about God. I might have been three or four well before I started school. I had a doll that was a clown a hobo looking clown, I was watching Red Shelton he had caught my eye simply because he looked like my doll. I'll never forget that at the end of the show the camera zoomed in and he said "and my God richly bless you", and wham it hit me like wave, it took me by such surprise it startled me, took my breath away, after the initial impact I was shouting to mom and dad sitting on the couch behind me, did you see that? did you see that? I've been following that Spirit ever since I'm 52 soon to be 53. Just thought I'd share that with you as well.

I have sensed that about you from the moment we began corresponding. I have no doubt that there are great things yet ahead for you. Though, I also know from my own experience how we are very good at getting in the way of the work that God is performing in us.

 

[bud02]

I have sensed that about you from the moment we began corresponding. I have no doubt that there are great things yet ahead for you. Though, I also know from my own experience how we are very good at getting in the way of the work that God is performing in us.

I affirm that sense as well, my post hinting at just that from the beginning of your interdiction to one another.

http://www.christianityboard.com/topic/13155-why-jews-and-gentiles-are-kept-separate/page__view__findpost__p__98178

 

[bud02]

You have a PM Walking in Grace

 

[Vengle53]

I said in post #134 (in so may words) that we must see the end goal of what is happening In Christ is that we are all being prepared not to need external governing, but to be governed by the love of God which regulates in our hearts. Romans 2:14-16

Understanding that the temple in earthly Jerusalem was at that time from where the Law of God externally went forth to all who would listen, and that the Mesianic kingdom serves the purpose of changing that to become a regulation within the furtile soil of the believers heart, here is another picture of that end goal:

Revelation 21:22 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.
23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.
24 And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.
25 And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there.
26 And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it.
27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.

I will withheld further comments while you ponder.

 

[veteran]

You make chuckle. I am now 58 and I had a super strong belief in God ever scince I am able to recall anything of infancy. I have never in all of my years doubted He is and is real. It certainly was not knowledge as men know it that gave that faith to me. I never had to work at having that faith. It seemed as natural to me as my right arm. I never questioned why I had that faith. I somehow simply knew.

I can now see that that childhood innocent faith was why Satan tried so hard to bring me down over the years. I understand that knowledge was not what having that faith depended upon. I understand that knowledge was what God wanted me to pursue that I might be able to protect myself from the attacks that the sin in myself and in men and Satan himself would heap upon me. And as I look back I can see where because I had that faith God stepped in to rescue me at certain points of the suffering which I experienced of my own ignorance. He stepped in many times, so that I would not become completely broken; so that I would be able to continue on with learning.

I am not saying that he did not discipline me. I have had past moments when I asked God why it seemed that others who did the same things or even worse than myself seemed to suffer no consequences. Today I no longer ask that. Today I am glad that he saw to my paying the price of my own foolishness and made sure that I suffered to learn.

It's not your faith that I wonder about. You wouldn't believe on Christ Jesus if you weren't called by God. It's your 'reasoning' that is suspect, especially with some of the ideas you have (which I have heard from elsewhere also, not just from you).

I appreciate what you say about it being intended that God himself be our only king. 1 Samuel 10:19 "And ye have this day rejected your God, who himself saved you out of all your adversities and your tribulations; and ye have said unto him, Nay, but set a king over us. Now therefore present yourselves before the LORD by your tribes, and by your thousands."

I ask you now to see deeper. Hebrews 8:11 "And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest." (Jeremiah 31:34)

I ask you now to see deeper that a man or a woman was never meant to have to need to be governed of anything external; but by their love of God regulating in their individual hearts.

There's that false reasoning again of yours that I underline. The idea that man was never meant to be governed is what you're saying, and that is not written anywhere in God's Word.

The reason is because God has always setup rulers over us in this world, even today, and in His future Kingdom He only will be our Ruler, for as written the government shall be upon Christ's shoulder (Isa.9). God has always been our True King; it's just that many have refused to recognize His Divine Authority over all things. That's definitely not going to stop in His future eternal Kingdom either, not during the coming Milennium, nor in God's Eternity.

But I'll tell you who that false idea that man wasn't meant to be governed is from. It's the same type of temptation the serpent used upon Adam and Eve in telling them they could become their own gods. That was Karl Marx's philosophy also, since his Communist Manifesto declared that eventually when Communism was complete, there would be no need for government. That's the same ploy as that old serpent, for his purpose in spreading that lie was so the people would work against governments which God had placed in authority over men. That's why Lennin went to murder Czar Nickolas II and Alexandra, Christian monarchs blood related to the Christian monarchs of Europe.

That is why after all has been brought back to God in Christ Jesus: 1 Corinthians 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

How long does Christ's Messianic kingdom riegn? (That stone cut out of God's mountain?) 1 Corinthians 15:25 "For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet."

Those Scriptures have nothing to do with the false idea you're putting out. They declare just the opposite of what you're saying, because Christ being subject to The Father after His future Milennium reign even shows The Father in Authority and Rule over all things. It has nothing to do with your false idea that Christ's future reign will stop at any time. Christ's saints are not going to stop being kings and priests after that thousand years either. That's going to continue forever, even as God promised His servant David about his throne.

How then will men be ruled? Romans 2:14-16 "For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another
16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel."

Paul's Message was about Gentiles who 'naturally' follow the law. That's what "do by nature the things contained in the law" means. By that should be understood how God's law is spiritual and eternal, and is never going to end.

But those against His law want to create their own law so they can try to be their own god without Him. That's not going to happen either, for The LORD will continue to strike those down who try to do that.