new version of OSAS?

[michaelvpardo]

This thread is getting a bit long for my old brain to easily follow, but here's some food for thought to those who believe that we somehow contribute to our salvation.
"Watch and pray, lest you enter into temptation. The spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak.” Matthew 26:41

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Step back, count to 10, do whatever you need to do to avoid doing damage to your own testimony or to avoid tempting a brother to sin. Absolutely none of us will have a perfect understanding until we're renewed in the resurrection and all of us who believe serve the same master, even when we're doctrinally confused or doubting the plain meaning of scripture because of personal experience. Please, let love rule. Love is the power to overcome, not contention and strife in the house. Peace, brother, we don't have to agree on everything, we only need to be confident in our relationship with Christ, keep the faith, and love the brethren. The last is by far the most difficult because sin is present wherever we go, but where sin abounds in the church, so too grace abounds all the more.

"...there have to be differences among you to show which of you have God's approval." 1 Corinthians 11:19​

We show we have God's approval by how we act in our differences.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

This thread is getting a bit long for my old brain to easily follow, but here's some food for thought to those who believe that we somehow contribute to our salvation.
"Watch and pray, lest you enter into temptation. The spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak.” Matthew 26:41

Is believing and trusting in God contributing to our salvation?

 

[marks]

I call it “ JudaAnity”.....Mainly an Old Testament Mind-Set with a little bit of “ Jesus” sprinkled on top....

I like that! It's being gracious!

Much love!

 

[GRACE ambassador]

....and I could say, show me that YOU have the Spirit Of God in you by not ADDING to the Gospel ....

You obviously think that I am wrong.....but what if I am not? What if you really do spread Leaven and lead people to “ Fall from Grace”, with all of the sheer Horror that could entail? Especially for Newbies....

I could be wrong about everything I say.....but with all of my heart and soul I think that I am correct about my “ take” on Scripture.....If you were I’m my position , would you just “ let it go?” Shame On you if you would ....This place is precious to me , and I take it VERY seriously —- WE ARE TALKING HEAVEN vs. HELL! I ain’t “ Backing Down”......

I bet the Judaizers Of Paul’s day wish day wished that Paul would “ back down” just a little or not be so “ mean” ( I wish you would just go ahead and cut off your entire you-know-what, He said to the pro- Circumcision Crowd —- I’m being a little “ sweeter” than Paul was)

If you or anybody else can convince me ( Using Scripture) That I am wrong , I am never too proud to apologize .....I have no compulsion to be “the Winner”......I just want the Truth .....right or wrong, I think I am on the right side of our debates.....prove me wrong....My Constant prayer to God is that if I am wrong—- LET ME KNOW IT! If the other side is Wrong.....open their eyes also.....

Precious friend, I respect your "not backing down Eternity Matters Above All"
attitude, But, this is why, after fervent prayer, and "after a couple of tries at discussing" These Important Matters, I give the GOOD-Bye to these
"God's Time wasters?," According to The Holy Scriptures!:

Romans 16 : 17, Titus 3 : 1, 1 Timothy 6 : 3-5... KJB!

"...But godliness with contentment is Great Gain! (v. 6)" Amen?

There are MANY others "to be reached!" Amen? Be Blessed!

 

[michaelvpardo]

"...there have to be differences among you to show which of you have God's approval." 1 Corinthians 11:19​

We show we have God's approval by how we act in our differences.

Absolutely, but immaturity or even carnality of thought (which is also immaturity) isn't a proof of lack of relationship. Self defense is a natural aspect of the flesh. Under trial for His very life, the Lord would not open His mouth in defense of Himself, but are we all there yet?
Some of us get beat up in life a lot. Some of us have self doubt and stand behind false bravado. Some of us have "a root of bitterness " that breaks out destructively. We find common experiences in Christ, but no two of us have lived the same life, walked identical paths, or experienced the same shipwrecks. Christ is the great healer and He does His work in us, but some of us are just a bit more damaged than others.
12 Therefore let him who thinks he stands take heed lest he fall. 13 No temptation has overtaken you except such as is common to man; but God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but with the temptation will also make the way of escape, that you may be able to bear it. 1 Corinthians 10:12-13
What a glorious day it will be when we all understand scripture and live accordingly, but until that time we all have a lot of work to do.

 

[michaelvpardo]

Is believing and trusting in God contributing to our salvation?

Yes and no, belief and trust are required but that also comes from the Lord. You've read the story of Gideon, the tests he placed upon God? We grow in belief and trust by His work in our lives. Election is election, God's choice, not our own. That's not a doctrine of men, but the plain teaching of scripture. Whoever sins is a slave to sin, and whoever retains the sin nature without receiving His Spirit is in bondage to sin. How does one free themselves from bondage to their own nature? The answer is found in scripture in multiple places and clearly it has nothing to do with us.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

If they would stop fighting a term, OSAS, I think they may be open to understanding what we really believe

I was thinking of that same thing earlier today.....I don’t really care about OSAS or NOSAS.....I am just a blessed man that is aware of some fantastic Promises that are in God's Word .....one of which is that if one “ Turns to Me with Faith in Jesus Christ , I will Save to the UTTERMOST “ I did that.Its simply the End of the Story for Anybody That understands English ....The Onus to Save is on God's Back —- NOT mine....just the Way That He Wants it ....that Way, Justice is served—- Jesus gets ALL of the Glory and ol’ BB gets none......Some people just “ got” to get a little of that “ glory”..... they will be hearing “ Depart From me, I never knew you.....”

Not me! I am off “the Hook”......God “ remembers my sins no more....” Ya know, a Carnal Thinking man who does not understand Grace, thinks that would make a man want to sin more ..... I guess you just have to live it—-in actuality, it makes a man want to Sin less....like I say.....”You have to Live it”.... so many here don’t ....The Grace That Saves a person has never been “extended”to the religionists we see in here ..... that is why they can’t understand it .....it would take the actual Trusting of God instead of just paying Lip-Service ......The Same “ lip- Service” involved when they sing “ Nothing But The Blood” .....it’s all mindlessness....God knows it, too.....

 

[BloodBought 1953]

Sin is sin. If you are parsing sins into some that are "less OK" than others, that presents an inaccurate view of sin.

That distinction was made in the OT. Not in the NT. Defining the New Covenant Christian according to the covenant of Law between God and Israel yields confusion.

You fault those whom you claim say "Sin is OK",



Surely you aren't saying that the second version of sin is OK, are you?

What is is there that you do not have power over as a Christian? That would be the "unwillful sin", so called. There is no such thing, you know. Unwillful sin. Sin that you don't have the power to deny. Doesn't exist. Not for the reborn.

Much love!

Wow.You are Good....” REAL” Good.....I just thought that somebody should say it...God has Blessed you immensely.....may He continue to do so.... ( And of course, He will....)

 

[michaelvpardo]

Perception is a strange thing. When we see something, we aren't seeing all that exists in front of our eyes. When we hear, we aren't hearing all the sound entering our ears. Our senses only work in limited ranges but leave us with the illusion that we are totally aware of the world around us.
Even if our senses were capable of capturing all that other information, our brains have to process that information through the filter of our perception. We see a cloud that looks like a rabbit, but it's not a rabbit, it's just a cloud. We see a shadow in the dark that looks like a predator, and while it could be a predator, it could also be some bushes or other objects with the shape of a predator.
11 When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child; but when I became a man, I put away childish things. 12 For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I shall know just as I also am known. 1 Corinthians 11-12

 

[BloodBought 1953]

Uh, no. Lol.

Stellar Defense!

 

[michaelvpardo]

I was thinking of that same thing earlier today.....I don’t really care about OSAS or NOSAS.....I am just a blessed man that is aware of some fantastic Promises that are in God's Word .....one of which is that if one “ Turns to Me with Faith in Jesus Christ , I will Save to the UTTERMOST “ I did that.Its simply the End of the Story for Anybody That understands English ....The Onus to Save is on God's Back —- NOT mine....just the Way That He Wants it ....that Way, Justice is served—- Jesus gets ALL of the Glory and ol’ BB gets none......Some people just “ got” to get a little of that “ glory”..... they will be hearing “ Depart From me, I never knew you.....”

Not me! I am off “the Hook”......God “ remembers my sins no more....” Ya know, a Carnal Thinking man who does not understand Grace, thinks that would make a man want to sin more ..... I guess you just have to live it—-in actuality, it makes a man want to Sin less....like I say.....”You have to Live it”.... so many here don’t ....The Grace That Saves a person has never been “extended”to the religionists we see in here ..... that is why they can’t understand it .....it would take the actual Trusting of God instead of just paying Lip-Service ......The Same “ lip- Service” involved when they sing “ Nothing But The Blood” .....it’s all mindlessness....God knows it, too.....

OSAS and NOSAS are just more labels like "calvinist", "preterist", etc. Such labels are characterizations that allow us to categorize a persons beliefs without actually knowing what they really are (because we already know by our biases) and disregard them without consideration. Arguments with people that have a bias are typically pointless in that you're dealing with imaginary omniscience on the part of those who know you without knowing you.
I do believe in the gift of prophesy, Spirit filled pastors frequently exercise the gift from the pulpit without even knowing that they are, but the target of prophesy is restoration of right relationship, preservation of the fellowship, not condemnation and judgment.
I think a zeal for the gospel is a good thing, but the gospel has power of its own. The gospel is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes.
No one is saved through argument but a heart can be opened and receptive, or closed and disparaging to the truth, all by the "tone" of the argument.
The most common argument I've heard from those "outside" is that they don't like being preached at. Personally I prefer being preached to rather than being preached at, but we can't avoid the conviction of the word when it reveals our sin. However, the ministry of the law is the ministry of condemnation. All are condemned by the law. The ministry of the gospel is the ministry of reconciliation. All who believe are reconciled through the gospel.
When all of us apprehend these simple truths peace will be the result, but we obviously aren't there yet.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

The devil's hard at work again, lol. Don't be a willing instrument of his destructive work, BB. If you can't stop I can't help but to consider you an unbeliever. Sorry, that's just the way it is. Prove to me you have the Spirit of God in you and stop being a jerk.

Lol.....I don’t owe you an explanation or a “ proof” Of “ANYTHING”......I humbly invite every Soul that spends time in here to read the six short chapters of Galatians and then come back and tell me what I am mistaken about in my on- going debate with Mr.Bueller......please.He repeatedly Adds to the Pure Gospel of Grace .....how do we know this? Because he believes that unrepented sins and sins done on purpose ( Willful Sins) are not covered by the Blood .....He Believes and would readily admit that Jesus is “ Essential” for Salvation— we got no problem there......it’s just that he doesn’t believe that The Blood Of Jesus , in and of itself , is “ ADEQUATE” for Salvation......

That, my friends is the very DEFINITION of a Judaizer......” Jesus Saves—-BUT—- you gotta do this or you gotta do that! The only thing you “ Gotta” do to get Saved Forever is to Believe in the Gospel Of 1Cor15:1-4....plus NOTHING! FB ADDS to that with the Mandatory Avoidance Of Willful Sins and Repenting Of All Of your Sins before you die......great things in their proper place—— they just haveNothing to do with Salvation —- That was a GIFT—- Given to those who Trust Jesus Alone to Save them.....You have added to the Gospel which means that you do not REST in it.....Your Mistake Of ADDING to the Gospel instead of RESTING in it , according to Hebrews 3 and 4 will have God calling you “ Disobedient” and Guilty Of “UNBELIEF”—— very serious stuff .....and I ain't letting up.....you are a VERY dangerous man.....

You think I am a “ jerk” because I constantly “ give you hell” .....Nah, that dog won’t hunt, Dude.....I just give you Scriptural Truth and you “ think” it’s Hell.....I suggest that you stop whining and try defeating me by using Scripture .....that is the only thing that will Hold Water in here....you are a defeated , frustrated , angry man that loathes me because you can’t prove me wrong using the Word Of God... .....all you can do is “ run and tell” ......lol......

 

[BloodBought 1953]

Fine. You don't have to back down on what you believe. Just be gentle and respectful about it. Can you do that?

How “ gentle and respectful” were you when you declared my “ Damnation” for all to see? Can you say, “ Hypocrite! “ Believe it or not , it is my intention to be kind and light- hearted every time I come in here ( my main traits away from this place) and then I read stuff in here that I honestly believe has the potential to send innocent, poorly taught people to Hell ...sorry —- that’s when your pleas and my best wishes fly out the window....their is such a thing as “ Righteous Anger”.....I don’t try for it.....I don't enjoy it.....Sometimes, however, it is appropriate .....I think that perhaps it is appropriate to the extent that it is Akin to a Fruit Of The Spirit...If others in here aren’t as angry as me when they see the Blood Of Jesus Trampled on and hear “ Doctrines Of Demons” being espoused....maybe “ they” got the problem.....

 

[Ferris Bueller]

How “ gentle and respectful” were you when you declared my “ Damnation” for all to see?

Very.

...their is such a thing as “ Righteous Anger”.....I don’t try for it.....I don't enjoy it.....Sometimes, however, it is appropriate .....I think that perhaps it is appropriate to the extent that it is Akin to a Fruit Of The Spirit...If others in here aren’t as angry as me when they see the Blood Of Jesus Trampled on and hear “ Doctrines Of Demons” being espoused....maybe “ they” got the problem.....

I'll take that as a 'no' to my question, then, lol.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Lol.....I don’t owe you an explanation or a “ proof” Of “ANYTHING”......I humbly invite every Soul that spends time in here to read the six short chapters of Galatians and then come back and tell me what I am mistaken about in my on- going debate with Mr.Bueller.

It's not about that. It's about your angry ranting.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

Your willful sins committed before you were saved are forgiven when you get saved. It's when you commit willful sins after you are saved that you're treading some dangerous territory. Unrepentant, willful sin is the sign of an unbeliever, not the believer.

We can agree that the Believer who sins with Willful abandon is “ treading on dangerous territory” —I will go even go farther than you! I believe that this guy is on VERY Dangerous Territory—- so dangerous that God just might take his life with an extremely premature death .....still a Saved man, cause it would falsify too much of Scripture if he wasn’t ......, like where God says that He will “FINISH the work that He started” or that He would “ Save to the Uttermost , ALL that came to Him with Faith in Jesus Christ” —— he’s the Saved man that Paul discusses that barely got Saved ....like a guy that barely escaped from a fire....that’s all Biblical.....

Willful Sins ( assuming that there are any real pertinent divisions when it comes to sins) is gonna be rare in the life of the Believer .....God’s gonna take that Fool Of a Child by the nap of the neck and march him to the “ Wood- Shed” .....and its Gonna Be UGLY —- count on it....watch that rate of “ Willful Sinning” by any Believer plummet....

Unbelievers don't have to worry about this so much....Children Of God are GUARANTEED to be Chastised.As for Unbelievers ? They may or may not get Chastised .....Was it not Solomon That asked, “Why do the Wicked Prosper?” The Wicked can seem to get away with a lot in this lifetime....rest assured he will get his due later in Hell...

As a Believer for many years , I know first- hand that a Believer does not get away with ANYTHING ! I can’t get away with anything these days.....lol.....the good news is that I have no desire to “get away” with anything.....I just want to please the One that Saved an utter, Hell- bound wretch like me ....

So , in closing, I know that both camps Sin on Purpose at times..the Unsaved man could not care less about his sins.....He’s gonna get away with a lot ( for a while ) ....The Saved man hates Sin going out the Gate, because he has a New Heart and wants to please God.....and if he’s Wise, He’ll also know when he chooses to go his way and try to ignore God’s will.....there’s gonna be a price to pay....God will not be Mocked.....

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Because he believes that unrepented sins and sins done on purpose ( Willful Sins) are not covered by the Blood .

You know why, right? It's because unrepentant, purposeful sinning is turning your back in unbelief on the blood that sanctified you. It's trampling on the Son of God and insulting the Spirit of grace.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

He Believes and would readily admit that Jesus is “ Essential” for Salvation— we got no problem there......it’s just that he doesn’t believe that The Blood Of Jesus , in and of itself , is “ ADEQUATE” for Salvation.

It is adequate. For the BELIEVER, not the unbeliever who turns his back on the grace of God. Christ's blood does not cover the sin of rejecting the blood of Christ.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

That, my friends is the very DEFINITION of a Judaizer......” Jesus Saves—-BUT—- you gotta do this or you gotta do that! The only thing you “ Gotta” do to get Saved Forever is to Believe in the Gospel Of 1Cor15:1-4....plus NOTHING! FB ADDS to that with the Mandatory Avoidance Of Willful Sins and Repenting Of All Of your Sins before you die.

No, lol. The argument is, you have to keep believing to be saved and stay saved. Willful, deliberate sinning is the result of rejecting the blood of Christ in unbelief. The unbelief is what separates you from the grace of God. And because you are separated from the grace of God your sinning will be held to your account, because you don't believe in Christ anymore for Christ to have it covered.