new version of OSAS?

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Grailhunter

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I know I am.

"For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified." (Hebrews 10:14)

So I must not ruined the perfection Christ’s atonement has given me by returning willfully to sin: because:

"Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?" (Hebrews 10:29)

Do you think you are perfect?
God is real and Christianity is real and we are real...so the only religious beliefs I am interested in are real.
Christ can make us perfect before God the Father but that is a clock of Grace. I do not dabble in fantasy religions.
 

Tong2020

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Tong2020 said:
Who says there will be Christians in hell?

Do you really believe that there will be some of those created in Christ in hell?
Let me guess! You think they were just kidding when they wrote these scriptures? The OSAS beliefs are based on explaining away about half the Bible. How do you explain them away?

1st John3:8: He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

1st Corinthians 6:9-10 “Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.”

Galatians 5:21 “Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions, envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.”

Revelation 21:8
But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”

2nd Peter 2:4-22
4: For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment 5: And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly; 6: And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly; 7: And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked: 8: (For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds 9: The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished: 10: But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities. 11: Whereas angels, which are greater in power and might, bring not railing accusation against them before the Lord. 12: But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption; 13: And shall receive the reward of unrighteousness, as they that count it pleasure to riot in the day time. Spots they are and blemishes, sporting themselves with their own deceivings while they feast with you; 14: Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children: 15: Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness; 16: But was rebuked for his iniquity: the dumb ass speaking with man's voice forbad the madness of the prophet. 17: These are wells without water, clouds that are carried with a tempest; to whom the mist of darkness is reserved for ever. 18: For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error. 19: While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage. 20: For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. 21: For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. 22: But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.
Not a single passage you quoted says some of those created by God in Christ Jesus will end up in hell.

So it is, that you really do believe that some of those created by God in Christ Jesus will be in hell together with those who were not. Well, it’s like saying, whether you were created by God in Christ or not, does not make any difference after all.

Seems like we don’t have the same take about what to be created in Christ Jesus means. Well, that sure put a lot of difference between us. Which explains a lot of our disagreement about the salvation of God of His children.

Tong
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Tong2020

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Tong2020 said:
Who says there will be Christians in hell?

Do you really believe that there will be some of those created in Christ in hell?
I think they mean False christains . Which are all over the places . They might have had some head knowledge
but their heart was far from Him . Just like i once was . A false christain . name only , heart nowhere near him .
AND my fruits proved it . Just like theirs do . I see many wordly sensual christains . Which really means they as false as i once was .
I’d like to think so. They can always clarify. That’s why I brought up a question meant to give them the chance to clarify.

How about you, it seems your answer to my question is a no.

Tong
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Grailhunter

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I’d like to think so. They can always clarify. That’s why I brought up a question meant to give them the chance to clarify.

How about you, it seems your answer to my question is a no.

Tong
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Like I said...try your hand at twisting or explaining away these scriptures....
Let me guess! You think they were just kidding when they wrote these scriptures? The OSAS beliefs are based on explaining away about half the Bible. How do you explain them away?

1st John3:8: He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

1st Corinthians 6:9-10 “Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.”

Galatians 5:21 “Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions, envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.”

Revelation 21:8
But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”

2nd Peter 2:4-22
4: For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment 5: And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly; 6: And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly; 7: And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked: 8: (For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds 9: The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished: 10: But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities. 11: Whereas angels, which are greater in power and might, bring not railing accusation against them before the Lord. 12: But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption; 13: And shall receive the reward of unrighteousness, as they that count it pleasure to riot in the day time. Spots they are and blemishes, sporting themselves with their own deceivings while they feast with you; 14: Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children: 15: Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness; 16: But was rebuked for his iniquity: the dumb ass speaking with man's voice forbad the madness of the prophet. 17: These are wells without water, clouds that are carried with a tempest; to whom the mist of darkness is reserved for ever. 18: For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error. 19: While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage. 20: For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. 21: For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. 22: But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.
 

Tong2020

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Tong2020 said:
@Ferris Bueller, @Corlove13, @Cooper, have you kept believing today? Did you thank God for that today yet? Or would you not thank Him for that?
Years ago I read this and I have done it ever since. If we have Christ in our heart while we go about our daily work we can do this no trouble at all, and if you were close enough to hear, you will hear me quietly saying things like, "thank you Lord, I love you Lord, keep me safe Lord, help me Lord." He is in my thoughts the whole time, every waking moment of every day.

Rejoice evermore. Pray without ceasing. In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you.
(1Th 5:16-18 KJV)
.
That sounds like a yes answer to my question.

And with that, it would be nice to ponder what truth a yes answer to that shouts out about the salvation of God of those whom He created in Christ Jesus. For what it means to thank God by one who keeps believing speaks out that God is Him who keeps Him.

Tong
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Grailhunter

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What the Bible says doesn’t matter to many people… especially those who claim to serve its author…
What I am dealing with here on this thread are two extremes, those that think you have to be perfect to be saved or be a true Christian and those that think that you can sin all you want and go to heaven....both are a lie.

But, on the other hand wrong as it may be...if you think you have to be perfect to be saved....I say give it a good go! It will never happen, but it is the least of two wrong beliefs. Go for it! I say Be Good...if you are trying to be perfect I cannot say too much bad about that. You will at least make the Good mark...LOL
 

Tong2020

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There is one thing that can and will harden a heart . ANd paul knew it . And thus HE wrote it .
Exhort one another daily , lest any becomes hardened through the deceitfulness of SIN .
And in this day and age i see many folks now running into another gospel . ITS the all inclusive false love gospel .
That gospel saves none . That gospel saves none . That gospel saves none . It damns all who go under it .
May I ask, can you tell us, what for you is the main difference between those created in Christ Jesus and those who were not?

Thanks.

Tong
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Grailhunter

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If you want to go to heaven, repent unto God and towards faith in Jesus Christ. Jesus is the way, the truth, the life, the resurrection. There is no other way and name through which that man is saved, but Jesus Christ.

Tong
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Well you know since I am a Christian and you are Christian...that is the beginning. Then you have your whole life ahead of you.
In the end...when you are standing before Christ, how good He did on your salvation is not being judged....guess what...all scriptures say you will be judged on your deeds....and if your deeds were sinful...pack the barbeque sauce cause you are going to need it. As Christ said gnashing of teeth....I am thinking it is like screaming in agony. Beee Goood.

Philippians 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

Big on the work...Ahhhh!
 

BloodBought 1953

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You can argue that with the devil. You can be saved and if so by Grace. But if you sin enough, according to the Bible you will go to hell by sin...Christ's saving Grace is not on trial on Judgment Day, but your deeds are. And it is by your deed that Christ will judge you to hell. You can do your preaching from there, which seems like what you do any way.


So.....ACCORDING to YOU......Grace is Grace when you prove you don’t need it....Your “Grace “ is there if you earn it by meritorious living.....Grace is “ Unmerited Favor”..... If you “ Merit” it or “ deserve” it....it’s no longer Grace.

How dangerous it is To Reject the Only Thing That ever Saved anyone that was ever Saved.....” by “GRACE” you are Saved.....” May God have mercy on all of you “ Grace rejectors” .....
 

Grailhunter

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So.....ACCORDING to YOU......Grace is Grace when you prove you don’t need it....Your “Grace “
Nope.

Your “Grace “ is there if you earn it by meritorious living
Nope.

Grace is “ Unmerited Favor”.
Yeap.

If you “ Merit” it or “ deserve” it....it’s no longer Grace.

You are correct...
How dangerous it is To Reject the Only Thing That ever Saved anyone that was ever Saved.

Who is rejecting being saved?

by “GRACE” you are Saved.....” May God have mercy on all of you “ Grace rejectors” .....

No one is rejecting Grace. Grace is wonderful. Like I said Christ is not on trial on the quality of His Grace...as every scripture pertaining to Judgment Day says...we are judged by our deeds, maybe the lack of them....Parable of the Talents. We are all saved the same. In the end we are judged by our deeds....How can you miss this point? The scriptures make it clear that we will be judged by our deeds. Grace really has nothing to do with it. If you are a Christian and have lived a life of sin you will have to answer for that on Judgment Day. Which means there will be Christians in hell and no evildoers in heaven.
 

BloodBought 1953

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And it is by your deed that Christ will judge you to hell.



Darn that Paul! Why did he lie? Or maybe my Bible has some serious errors in it...

Because the Bible that “I” read has Paul saying we will be Judged by “ his” Gospel.....

All of my Bad Deeds were put on the Cross and “ judged “ 2000 years ago....Jesus took the terrible judgement that was due me and paid for it....I gave Him my Sins and in turn, He gave me His Righteousness.....what a Deal ! Sorry .....you appear to be one who passed up the greatest “ Deal” Of all time....what a shame...
 

BloodBought 1953

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Nope.


Nope.


Yeap.



You are correct...


Who is rejecting being saved?



No one is rejecting Grace. Grace is wonderful. Like I said Christ is not on trial on the quality of His Grace...as every scripture pertaining to Judgment Day says...we are judged by our deeds, maybe the lack of them....Parable of the Talents. We are all saved the same. In the end we are judged by our deeds....How can you miss this point? The scriptures make it clear that we will be judged by our deeds. Grace really has nothing to do with it. If you are a Christian and have lived a life of sin you will have to answer for that on Judgment Day. Which means there will be Christians in hell and no evildoers in heaven.


This is some great Religion you have dreamed up here ! Unfortunately it ain’t Christianity....good luck with it....you got things so backwards , I would not know where to begin— so I won’t....
 

Grailhunter

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And it is by your deed that Christ will judge you to hell.



Darn that Paul! Why did he lie? Or maybe my Bible has some serious errors in it...

Because the Bible that “I” read has Paul saying we will be Judged by “ his” Gospel.....

All of my Bad Deeds were put on the Cross and “ judged “ 2000 years ago....Jesus took the terrible judgement that was due me and paid for it....I gave Him my Sins and in turn, He gave me His Righteousness.....what a Deal ! Sorry .....you appear to be one who passed up the greatest “ Deal” Of all time....what a shame...

Not true. You will still be judged for your sins on judgment Day. Saved is a point in time. You still going to answer for what you do. You can not fool Christ. And no we are not judged his or any other Gospel. What you do is your fault, not Christ's And again all the scriptures tell you who will not inherit the Kingdom of God and in the end you will be judged by your own deeds.
 

Tong2020

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"…if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins" (Hebrews 10:26)

In other words; don’t come back running to me again after I saved you once already!

Depart from me, ye who work iniquity!

"I WILL profess unto them… depart from me, ye that work iniquity." (Matthew 7:23)
Yes, in other words there is no forgiveness of sin in no one else, except Jesus Christ.

Hebrews 10:26 is in relation to the Mosaic sacrifices both for the atonement and forgiveness of sins.

Tong
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Tong2020

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I do not finding it amusing that so many Christians have such a hard time understanding the concept of good.
They either do not understand....believe no Christian is good....or give up entirely and believe they can sin on
It is very sad for you....how long have you been studying the Bible and still do not have a clue?
The biblical concept of good is understood in Christ. There is no man who is good, only God.

What man is good are only those who are in Christ, who are created in Christ by God. What makes them good is Christ being in them, and them being in Christ. Other than that, no one can make themselves good.

God Himself said of the fallen natural man, that every intents of the thoughts of his heart is evil continually, even from his youth.

Tong
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Grailhunter

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There is no man who is good, only God.
Well were I am from I know a lot of Good Christians and as Paul referred to Christian as saints....that comes from the phrase the holy ones from the Hebrew.

What man is good are only those who are in Christ, who are created in Christ by God. What makes them good is Christ being in them, and them being in Christ. Other than that, no one can make themselves good.

That is all true...but Christ expects us to be moral and those that are not get judged for their deeds on Judgment Day.

God Himself said of the fallen natural man, that every intents of the thoughts of his heart is evil continually, even from his youth.

Is He describing the people that Paul called saints? Did Paul lie?