new version of OSAS?

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
Perhaps, but not in the biblical concept of good, wherein, only God is good.

God is good in relation to perfection. Christians are good because they prescribe to and live by the morals of Christ. They cannot live up to them, but they can live their lives by them. The difference between how good people can be and perfection is covered by Grace.

God is good in relation to everything. In fact, there is no one good except God. As I pointed out, that is the biblical concept of good. And apparently you are speaking of another concept of good.

In the biblical concept of good, the true Christians are good, because they are in Christ and Christ is in them. Short of that, no one is good.

Tong2020 said: ↑
More than be moral even. God wanted us to be conformed to the image of Jesus Christ. In fact, those He created in Christ Jesus, He had predestined in that regard.

Just how much to invest in the idea that we all will look like Christ....c

That is not only an idea. That is truth in scriptures. Those whom God foreknew, those chosen, those whom God had created in Christ Jesus, who are God’s workmanship, God had predestined them to be conformed to the image of Jesus Christ. And they could be assured that God will accomplish that.

Tong2020 said: ↑
My statement I think was clear. He was telling us about the fallen natural man.

The Jews and the Romans were a good example of the "fallen natural man"....the natural character of man that God created....in His image....had free-will, But without the moral aspect of Christ they prone to all sorts of evils.

Nothing could be clearer than what God said about the fallen natural man, that every intent of the thoughts of his heart is evil continually.

Tong
R3599

 

[Cooper]

I understand the concept of losing our salvation but in reality salvation is not something we can lose.
Salvation has a no return policy.
We can fall away....and the consequences of that are hell.
But you would be in hell as a Christian.
When we are saved we are accepted into the family of God.....
From there we work out our salvation with fear and trembling.
In the end our deeds for good or bad are judged and we go to heaven as Christians or we go hell as Christians.
In the end salvation is not on trial nor is it a determination if a person was saved or not.
As a child of God we know the right way....if we go the wrong way it is our fault and we will pay for it.
The Bible tells us how many ways we can fail to inherit the Kingdom of God.

"I understand the concept of losing our salvation but in reality salvation is not something we can lose. Salvation has a no return policy. We can fall away....and the consequences of that are hell. But you would be in hell as a Christian.

"When we are saved we are accepted into the family of God..... From there we work out our salvation with fear and trembling."

"In the end our deeds for good or bad are judged and we go to heaven as Christians or we go hell as Christians."

"In the end salvation is not on trial nor is it a determination if a person was saved or not. As a child of God we know the right way....if we go the wrong way it is our fault and we will pay for it. The Bible tells us how many ways we can fail to inherit the Kingdom of God."

The above is contradictory and makes no sense. Sorry.

 

[Grailhunter]

you think you can be righteous, yet not even meet the guidelines of the commands of the law, you have no idea what righteousness is.

The Law has nothing to do with me, I am a Christian.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

The Law has nothing to do with me, I am a Christian.

your right

But you said we must be good. I am trying to show you what GOD'S defenition of being good is.

like I said, you forgot our conversation.

lets go back to the beginning

Who’s definition of good

yours or Gods?

 

[Grailhunter]

If we lose our faith we stop believing
if we stop believing we are an unbeliever,

Kind of a play on words. Once you know...you know. I will direct you to the story of the Parodical Son and the Lost Sheep.
You and I cannot determine the extent of some else's belief or unbelief. No belief meter. That is between them and Christ and Christ will make that determination.

But it brings up an interesting topic for me....why do some people lose faith?
Sometimes Christians fall through cracks...Life beats them down and out...no one to count on, no friends, no family that will help, a church that minds its on business and I mean business. They do not even know how to ask for help. There beliefs can be shaken. There prayers down to just preying for death.
What do you God thinks of a person or church that walks in to their life and shows some Christian compassion and turns their life around and maintains a relationship them and makes them feel that, that horror in their life will never happen again.

It is good to know that some people are horrible communicators....

I was at Walmart a couple years back. Standing behind an elderly lady and she had put some Ramen noodles, cheap soup, and some dog food up on the register belt. She had come up short with enough money to pay for it and was digging through her purse for change. The lady at the register knew me and just shook her head.

I told the elderly lady that she needed to the items back in her cart. She thought I was getting impatient and started cry. She said she thought she could find some change. I said no, you need to but your stuff in your cart...because you and I are going shopping.
After it was all over I gave her my number and told her that she was not alone.

I have several elderly people I help. I work with the Food Pantry and other charitable organizations and I deliver food to them in boxes and I deliver holiday meals or have them over at my house for holiday meals. They know they are not alone and there is some one that they can call and that their is someone that genuinely cares about them. That means so much to them. This is the sort of Good Deeds that Christ and the Apostles were talking about....This is the sort of thing that Christians should be doing.

 

[Grailhunter]

But you said we must be good. I am trying to show you what GOD'S defenition of being good

God's definition of good is not the Mosaic Law. God had His Son deliver the message and example of love, morals, and good. Our job is to live up to that the best we can.

 

[Grailhunter]

"I understand the concept of losing our salvation but in reality salvation is not something we can lose. Salvation has a no return policy. We can fall away....and the consequences of that are hell. But you would be in hell as a Christian.

"When we are saved we are accepted into the family of God..... From there we work out our salvation with fear and trembling."

"In the end our deeds for good or bad are judged and we go to heaven as Christians or we go hell as Christians."

"In the end salvation is not on trial nor is it a determination if a person was saved or not. As a child of God we know the right way....if we go the wrong way it is our fault and we will pay for it. The Bible tells us how many ways we can fail to inherit the Kingdom of God."

The above is contradictory and makes no sense. Sorry.

Got to read the Bible.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

God's definition of good is not the Mosaic Law. God had His Son deliver the message and example of love, morals, and good. Our job is to live up to that the best we can.

His defenition is greater than mosaic law.

So if your going to claim we are good. We need to use Gods definition. Not a watered down definition.

That is what keeps us humble and tears down our pride of thinking we are righteous when reality is we are not.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Kind of a play on words. Once you know...you know. I will direct you to the story of the Parodical Son and the Lost Sheep.
You and I cannot determine the extent of some else's belief or unbelief. No belief meter. That is between them and Christ and Christ will make that determination.

I was a prodigal son for 5 years due to circumstances in my life.

I never lost faith in the cross and my salvation,. or in God. I lost faith in the church and myself.

But it brings up an interesting topic for me....why do some people lose faith?
Sometimes Christians fall through cracks...Life beats them down and out...no one to count on, no friends, no family that will help, a church that minds its on business and I mean business. They do not even know how to ask for help. There beliefs can be shaken. There prayers down to just preying for death.
What do you God thinks of a person or church that walks in to their life and shows some Christian compassion and turns their life around and maintains a relationship them and makes them feel that, that horror in their life will never happen again.

It is good to know that some people are horrible communicators....

I was at Walmart a couple years back. Standing behind an elderly lady and she had put some Ramen noodles, cheap soup, and some dog food up on the register belt. She had come up short with enough money to pay for it and was digging through her purse for change. The lady at the register knew me and just shook her head.

I told the elderly lady that she needed to the items back in her cart. She thought I was getting impatient and started cry. She said she thought she could find some change. I said no, you need to but your stuff in your cart...because you and I are going shopping.
After it was all over I gave her my number and told her that she was not alone.

I have several elderly people I help. I work with the Food Pantry and other charitable organizations and I deliver food to them in boxes and I deliver holiday meals or have them over at my house for holiday meals. They know they are not alone and there is some one that they can call and that their is someone that genuinely cares about them. That means so much to them. This is the sort of Good Deeds that Christ and the Apostles were talking about....This is the sort of thing that Christians should be doing.

I agree here. I have run food pantries myself. Yes, this is what we should be doing.

in fact we should do more than this

My point is not to look at self and how good we are./ but others.

if we go around worrying if we are good enough, We will not be serving, because if we are honest with ourselves. We are not very good at all (in Gods standard) thats why we need to look out not in.

 

[Grailhunter]

His defenition is greater than mosaic law.

So if your going to claim we are good. We need to use Gods definition. Not a watered down definition.

That is what keeps us humble and tears down our pride of thinking we are righteous when reality is we are not.

Owww! Sounds like some perfect warm and fuzzy words....now climb down off that soup box and explain how that works in the real world....put that in motion and explain it in detail.

 

[Grailhunter]

My point is not to look at self and how good we are./ but others.

This is a very significant point. I tell young Christ Christians to live their lives as a walk with Christ. He is their every minute. He is there to see the good you do and the bad you do. The thing is if you make doing the right thing a habit...He is there to pick you up and dust you off when you fail and sends you smartly....because He knows your heart.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Owww! Sounds like some perfect warm and fuzzy words....now climb down off that soup box and explain how that works in the real world....put that in motion and explain it in detail.

How does it work?

When I look at myself and think I am such a good person. I look to Gopd and realise I am not really a good person. So I stop looking at myself and look to God and others to see who I can serve.

How can you can look inside and think you are good? Unless you wanted down Gods standard

 

[Grailhunter]

I was a prodigal son for 5 years due to circumstances in my life.

I never lost faith in the cross and my salvation,. or in God. I lost faith in the church and myself.





I agree here. I have run food pantries myself. Yes, this is what we should be doing.

in fact we should do more than this

My point is not to look at self and how good we are./ but others.

if we go around worrying if we are good enough, We will not be serving, because if we are honest with ourselves. We are not very good at all (in Gods standard) thats why we need to look out not in.

Ya that is better! If you talk in biblical generality...people are just going to think you are self-righteous. Get down to nitty gritty because people can relate and need that sort of import.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

This is a very significant point. I tell young Christ Christians to live their lives as a walk with Christ. He is their every minute. He is there to see the good you do and the bad you do. The thing is if you make doing the right thing a habit...He is there to pick you up and dust you off when you fail and sends you smartly....because He knows your heart.

which has been my point

To many people want to focus on self and works. And not focus on loving God and others.

So when we hear people tell us we need to be good. they are telling us to look inward not outward. We need to redirect them to the truth..

as a good friend of mine says, every day I wake up and I am not in hell is a good day. Because he knows that is where he deserves to be.

 

[Grailhunter]

When I look at myself and think I am such a good person. I look to Gopd and realise I am not really a good person. So I stop looking at myself and look to God and others to see who I can serve.

Good person...there are a lot of good Christians...is there a meter for that? Do the right thing and Beee Goood.

How can you can look inside and think you are good? Unless you wanted down Gods standard

Do you want to re-phrase this sentence?

 

[Grailhunter]

To many people want to focus on self and works. And not focus on loving God and others.

By the term focus, I guess you are correct....it is a matter of looking at what is going on and doing the right thing.

So when we hear people tell us we need to be good. they are telling us to look inward not outward. We need to redirect them to the truth..

Be Good means do good, whether it is our conduct or our deeds. We are seen by the world by our actions. Christianity can be static information unless you apply it correctly.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Good person...there are a lot of good Christians...is there a meter for that? Do the right thing and Beee Goood.

I can look at them and say they are good people

But if they go boasting about how good they are. Something is wrong

Do you want to re-phrase this sentence?

Legalists focus on works and being righteous and telling us we need to do this. Instead of telling people do Do what Jesus and others said, and focus on loving God and others..

We need to redirect legalistic thinking and point them to loving and serving others. and take the focus off how good we are looking inward.

If they continue to push works. We need to tell them Gods standard of what is good. If they continue to look inward. something is wrong.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

By the term focus, I guess you are correct....it is a matter of looking at what is going on and doing the right thing.
Be Good means do good, whether it is our conduct or our deeds. We are seen by the world by our actions. Christianity can be static information unless you apply it correctly.

Jesus told me if we follow the law of love and Paul said if we seek after the things of the spirit

we do not have to worry about being good. it will just happen. the jews focused on being good. So did my church growing up. Its why many people fall. when they realise how BAD they are. and the more people tell them to be good. the less they have faith and they walk away

 

[Grailhunter]

But if they go boasting about how good they are. Something is wrong

Don't boast.

Legalists focus on works and being righteous and telling us we need to do this. Instead of telling people do Do what Jesus and others said, and focus on loving God and others..

Again there is not a legalist section of the Bible, you have to take it as a whole. Christ and the Apostles were not legalists, they were teaching...preaching the true Gospel. The term legalist does not apply to the Bible. Legalist is the buzz for those that do not want acknowledge or live by the Morals of Christ and the Apostles

If they continue to push works. We need to tell them Gods standard of what is good. If they continue to look inward. something is wrong.

Push works...? What is the alternative? No form of "works or deeds" have anything to do with being initially saved. But it is part of our Christian walk with Christ....and on Judgment Day those works will be held in account for our favor.

 

[Grailhunter]

Jesus told me if we follow the law of love and Paul said if we seek after the things of the spirit

There is an "if" in this sentence.....?

we do not have to worry about being good. it will just happen.

Whatever this could mean in practice I do not have any idea. A lot of life is a matter of choices, you can make good choices or you can make bad choice...that applies to everything, not just religion. Life is not a matter of Hey sera, sera, Whatever will be, will be. The future's not ours to see. Hue sera, sera.

the jews focused on being good

The Jews had no idea what good was. Some were trying to obey the Law...613 Laws...which was impossible and could never lead to salvation....for a lot of reasons. You should know that the Jews were never offered heaven as a reward nor were they threatened with hell for disobedience. And Judaism does not have a devil, that is even true today. No devil, no hell in the Jewish beliefs.

So did my church growing up. Its why many people fall. when they realise how BAD they are. and the more people tell them to be good. the less they have faith and they walk away

I think I disagree with this....you want to re-phrase this sentence?