The everlasting gospel, part 2: The fallen

[marks]

Well I will only give you what God inspired Paul to write about OT gentiles:Eph. 2:
11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;

12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

I love how the Bible ALWAYS refutes error.

Much love!

 

[Davy]

6 For this reason the gospel was preached also to those who are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit. 1 Peter 4:6
Now, this verse could be understood in two different ways.
1 the "dead" could refer to the spiritually dead or:
2 the "dead" could refer to the physically dead
Let's take a look at the passage and try to discern if one or both are true.

I got your post on the other thread (that was closed). No, I disagree with her post about the 'everlasting gospel' not being the same Gospel of grace that saves us in Jesus Christ. If there were more than one 'gospel' of ANY kind in God's Word, then God would be contradicting Himself, and it really is that serious of a situation to put Him in.

 

[michaelvpardo]

It's not uncommon for people of all stripes to not see the forest for the trees. It turns out that sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander. I think those who say such things aren't planning on being fair.

I'm expecting the next thing will be, You don't see the forest, but I do. Is that how you are thinking?

Much love!

You tend to be on the defensive a wee bit and I'm not sure just why you're responding to these comments. Did I address you? Was it your post that I responded to ( I don't actually recall, but I thought it was to another believer and former teaching pastor?)
I don't even know what you specifically believe in beyond what you've said in your recent posts. Are you feeling under some conviction? I'm pretty sure that I'm not responsible for such things brother. Examine your heart and trust in His grace. The Lord is doing great works through us. I would think that you'd be delighted rather than angry.

 

[Davy]

You tend to be on the defensive a wee bit and I'm not sure just why you're responding to these comments. Did I address you? Was it your post that I responded to ( I don't actually recall, but I thought it was to another believer and former teaching pastor?)
I don't even know what you specifically believe in beyond what you've said in your recent posts. Are you feeling under some conviction? I'm pretty sure that I'm not responsible for such things brother. Examine your heart and trust in His grace. The Lord is doing great works through us. I would think that you'd be delighted rather than angry.

Yes, you did address me, on another thread that was closed recently, and it was about my response to Charity.

 

[marks]

You've said it. I've pointed no finger at you and you defend yourself where there is no accusation.

No, actually, you had said it. Not me.

I find from Scripture, and this shows in life, that signs and wonders stopped when the Gospel was sent to the gentiles.

By your words,

"You can only arrive at such assertions by blatantly ignoring the word of God, and ignoring Paul's exhortation to the church."

Please step up to own what you've said, and not turn it around to me. I'm only pointing to it.

And why do I do that, people may ask.

You tend to be on the defensive a wee bit and I'm not sure just why you're responding to these comments. Did I address you?

Am I being defensive? Or am I pointing to that which does not belong in a Scriptural discussion of our common faith?

Are you feeling under some conviction?

I'm sorry, this has nothing to do with it.

I would think that you'd be delighted rather than angry.

Is it some emotional state that drives me?

It's the desire that one day we can have threads free of these personal distractions and fallacies.

Why is it we feel the need to attack other people's persons in making our Biblical arguments?

Love hopes all things! I hope we can put such things away.

:)

Much love!

 

[amigo de christo]

Come and get you out of the harlots churches for she has infected many .
For STRONG is the LORD GOD who shall judge her in the coming time .
Come ye out from amongst them , be ye HOLY , Follow Christ and learn those bibles well .
For the time now is that the delusion grows and abounds and is taking many a heart captive unto a false image of God .
Behold the doorway of the harlot , for her path is broad and she has made many lanes by which to enter into her chambers .
There is but one way unto the Father as it is in the biblical JESUS .
Come ye out of her unity churches , who holler unity , love , peace and yet no doctrine and would and does attack any
who would bring correction . She is a whore and a mother of all harlots and she has infected the world with her false love .
The day OF the LORD shall come and sudden destruction cometh with it unto all who received the lie and had pleasure in unrighteousness .

 

[Marvelloustime]

Come and get you out of the harlots churches for she has infected many .
For STRONG is the LORD GOD who shall judge her in the coming time .
Come ye out from amongst them , be ye HOLY , Follow Christ and learn those bibles well .
For the time now is that the delusion grows and abounds and is taking many a heart captive unto a false image of God .
Behold the doorway of the harlot , for her path is broad and she has made many lanes by which to enter into her chambers .
There is but one way unto the Father as it is in the biblical JESUS .
Come ye out of her unity churches , who holler unity , love , peace and yet no doctrine and would and does attack any
who would bring correction . She is a whore and a mother of all harlots and she has infected the world with her false love .
The day OF the LORD shall come and sudden destruction cometh with it unto all who received the lie and had pleasure in unrighteousness .

This is right. We see this in scripture, where God is telling the people to come out of her.

“And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues. For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭18:4-5‬

 

[marks]

The answer is most likely that the law of Moses wasn’t given until 430 years after Abraham, but there was still some kind of law from God that they had, and violated.

For instance you quoted this: Paul wrote that there are those who will be judged by how well they kept Gods law written on their hearts called the conscience, which will either accuse, or excuse them on judgment day.

Rom 2:14 For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law.

Rom 2:15 They show that the work of the law is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness, and their conflicting thoughts accuse or even excuse them

If they are in the torments side of hades, they have been condemned, IMO, and it would be redundant and even cruel to preach a gospel they can’t be saved by.

Shalom Aleichem.

Hi Curtis,

God left that door wide open . . .

Romans 5:12-14 KJV
12) Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
13) (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
14) Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

People sinned, and so people died, because sin kills, but the judicial guilt of sin wasn't applied, since the Law had not been given.

Much love!

 

[michaelvpardo]

I got your post on the other thread (that was closed). No, I disagree with her post about the 'everlasting gospel' not being the same Gospel of grace that saves us in Jesus Christ. If there were more than one 'gospel' of ANY kind in God's Word, then God would be contradicting Himself, and it really is that serious of a situation to put Him in.

How were people "saved" before the gospel?

 

[marks]

I didn't attack anyone. I "attacked" poor doctrine that denies the truth of God's word, straight up. You were offended because you know that your understanding contradicts the word of God, but I didn't attack you or anyone else. If you don't like wasting time on such things. I can just post the New Testament instructions to the church and you can argue with God about it. Would you like the biblical arguments now? I'm reasonably sure that you know what the Bible says already, but we can drag this out for a while. If you don't believe the word of God, why are you even participating in a study dependent upon belief in the word of God?

What I'd like is a conversation partner with some manners who is willing to just stay on topic. And who has a sense of boundries.

You should read what you just wrote as if you hadn't seen it before, and it were written to you.

Much love!

 

[michaelvpardo]

What I'd like is a conversation partner with some manners who is willing to just stay on topic. And who has a sense of boundries.

You should read what you just wrote as if you hadn't seen it before, and it were written to you.

Much love!

Wouldn't have a problem with it. People on this site have trampled on my testimony, implied that I was heretic, a liar, a tare, and lots of wonderfully faithless things. I've encountered more opposition from people that I've helped to grow in the faith, than from the vile mouthed and carnal people I run into on Twitter. If you can't take the heat, stay out of the kitchen brother, because we're baking bread, the unleavened kind. Don't you realize that insisting that sign gifts and prophesy ended 2000 years ago is the same as calling saints who've done such signs liars? That includes yours truly, because I've seen the sign gifts at work and the Lord has used me to perform signs, often prophetically.
How do you think that Jesus feels about calling His saints liars?
Surely the Lord God does nothing,
Unless He reveals His secret to His servants the prophets. Amos 3:7
Why were the inventors of reformation doctrine selective in the texts that they used to make stuff up. Isn't that the way of the cults?
19 Do not quench the Spirit. 20 Do not despise prophecies. 21 Test all things; hold fast what is good. 22 Abstain from every form of evil. 1 Thessalonians 5:19-22
Are these just a string of random exhortations or was Paul saying listen, evaluate, and do what's right? Who gave anyone the right to contradict scripture to satisfy their own understanding and justify ignoring a brother or sister in the Lord? I know it wasn't the Apostle. I know it wasn't the Lord.
But when that which is perfect has come, then that which is in part will be done away. 1 Corinthians 13:10
This is the big proof verse that the gifts disappeared with the completion of the bible, but it has nothing to do with the bible. This doctrine was created by wresting a verse about love, and our completion and maturity in Christ demonstrating our love, by doing violence to the word and twisting one verse out of a chapter entirely about love and making it about scripture. To quote bugs bunny, "That's despicable," but I understand who would want people to doubt the word of God and why. That's as old as the garden of Eden.

 

[michaelvpardo]

Yes, you did address me, on another thread that was closed recently, and it was about my response to Charity.

Davy my friend, I did address you about your treatment of Charity, but the post that you just quoted wasn't a response to you either. That's part of the reason I asked that the prior thread be locked, too much confusion, not enough trust, not enough faith in the Holy Spirit's service as the teacher.

 

[n2thelight]

Why would Jesus preach the gospel to the damned? There’s no second chance once you die...

That would be redundant, IMO.

I believe there is a 2nd chance for those who die without Christ ,that time will be during the millennium .
Many people never had a first chance .

 

[Curtis]

I believe there is a 2nd chance for those who die without Christ ,that time will be during the millennium .
Many people never had a first chance .

We are judged after death, no second chances, unfortunately.

Those who never heard the gospel are judged by how they obeyed their conscience which is Gods law written on their hearts, which will accuse or excuse them.

Rom 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

Rom 2:15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)

Rom 2:16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

 

[n2thelight]

We are judged after death, no second chances, unfortunately.

Those who never heard the gospel are judged by how they obeyed their conscience which is Gods law written on their hearts, which will accuse or excuse them.

Rom 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

Rom 2:15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)

Rom 2:16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

Whom do you feel the elect will rule over at the return of Christ?

 

[marks]

Wouldn't have a problem with it. People on this site have trampled on my testimony, implied that I was heretic, a liar, a tare, and lots of wonderfully faithless things. I've encountered more opposition from people that I've helped to grow in the faith, than from the vile mouthed and carnal people I run into on Twitter.

So the answer is to just throw in with them? I've not treated you that way.

Why assume evil things of me?

Don't you realize that insisting that sign gifts and prophesy ended 2000 years ago is the same as calling saints who've done such signs liars?

Don't you think that this is worthy of perhaps a question or two before telling me I'm calling you a liar?

I put that out there to test you. Sorry, but that's the truth.

I know that different people define the "sign gifts" differently, and that's why I called it "signs and wonders". For myself, I don't think of prophecy or tongues or miracles to be different from teaching and giving and encouraging. All are from the Holy Spirit, and I don't think of some as "signs gifts" and others not, unless we are talking specifically about tongues and prophecy only. Some mean it that way.

When I speak of signs and wonders, I'm talking about the "unusual miracles". the clothes that healed all it touched, Peter's shadow, like that.

I wanted to know how you would react if I said I understood "signs and wonders" to have stopped. I found out.

I'm not cessationist, but I do believe that signs and wonders were for Israel, then, and not now. The coming signs and wonders will be the beast, and lying signs and wonders.

Meanwhile all the gifts of the Spirit in Romans 12 and 1 Corinthians 12 continue today. And the bottom line for me concerning gifts of the Spirit, "you earnestly desire the better gifts, this is a more excellent way", Love others, and let God determine by what means and what power you will best be able to love them.

Much love!

 

[Davy]

How were people "saved" before the gospel?

You don't remember Jesus Christ The Gospel being foreordained before the world began? Try Ephesians 1; Romans 8:30; Romans 9:23; Romans 11:5-6; 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14; Titus 1:1-2; etc.

John 8:56-58
56 "Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day: and he saw it, and was glad."
57 Then said the Jews unto him, "Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast Thou seen Abraham?"
58 Jesus said unto them, "Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am."
KJV

How did Abraham 'see' Christ's day, like Lord Jesus said there to the blind scribes and Pharisees?

 

[michaelvpardo]

You don't remember Jesus Christ The Gospel being foreordained before the world began? Try Ephesians 1; Romans 8:30; Romans 9:23; Romans 11:5-6; 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14; Titus 1:1-2; etc.

John 8:56-58
56 "Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day: and he saw it, and was glad."
57 Then said the Jews unto him, "Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast Thou seen Abraham?"
58 Jesus said unto them, "Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am."
KJV

How did Abraham 'see' Christ's day, like Lord Jesus said there to the blind scribes and Pharisees?

Let me rephrase my question. How were people saved before Abram? Did the Lord just cast those millions into hell?

 

[Timtofly]

How were people "saved" before the gospel?

By faith. Hebrews 11.

 

[Enoch111]

Let me rephrase my question. How were people saved before Abram?

They were to call upon the name of the Lord, just as we read in Romans 10. And as Romans 1 tells us, they were without excuse.