The everlasting gospel, part 2: The fallen

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michaelvpardo

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My point was that Jesus was God from birth, not at baptism. But God is always with us.
Actually, Jesus was God before His birth. I don't doubt your faith brother, or your relationship with the Lord, but you're inclined to write things that don't align with scripture and it really is difficult to write everything we believe in ways that can't be misunderstood by other people, especially when dealing with spiritual things that the carnal mind is unable to grasp. Right now, we're engaged in posting publicly to a forum open to all members, not in private messaging, so even if we manage to make ourselves understood to each other, people who read through the postings may not grasp our language or the thoughts that we attempt to express. For this reason, I strive for clarity and simplicity in my statements and review what I write doctrinally in the hope that anyone reading won't take exception because of a misunderstanding. Even so, most scripture that speaks to spiritual matters can be understood in one of two ways as determined by our "eyes", the eyes of our spirit, which can perceive in a "good light" or an "evil" one, a carnal way or a spiritual one. Jesus put it this way:
22 “The lamp of the body is the eye. If therefore your eye is good, your whole body will be full of light. 23 But if your eye is bad, your whole body will be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in you is darkness, how great is that darkness! Matthew 6:22
I like to think of it in this way. The word of God is a two edged sword, one side I see as judgment, the other as mercy and grace. I pray that the Lord grant that my eyes always fall on the side of mercy and grace. I see that as a faithful thing, consistent with the Lord's word, especially the red lettered ones.
 
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michaelvpardo

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Those are all excellent and insightful points about the new earth kingdom, and a good synopsis of scripture about those outside the kingdom - gentile nations, as well as the damned in outer darkness - and about salvation being both present and future. Our souls are saved now, our mortal bodies will be saved at the resurrection.

Those gentile nations are described coming into the city to worship God, in Zechariah 14.

Since hell has different levels of punishment, I wonder if outer darkness outside of the city, is the least level of punishment.

I do believe though that there are trees of life, plural, on both sides of the river of life, as well as the center of the city, flowing from that temple, the city New Jerusalem, and puts out fruit monthly to heal the nations.

Rev 22:1 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.

Rev 22:2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

Baruch HaShem Adonai
In retrospect, the kingdom is laid out in a similar fashion to the temple itself, with its sanctuary or Holy place, the court for the sacrifices and labor associated with the offerings, the outer court for the gentiles, and outside that, the world.
 
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Davy

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No offspring in Paradise. Those on earth will be able to have offspring.

I rest my case. You go directly against God's Word with that FALSE BELIEF ABOVE.

Matt 22:30
30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.
KJV


Sorry, there won't be any fornication in the resurrection. Too bad you are so consumed with the idea of having sex. Having sex will be a thing of the past after this present world.
 

Timtofly

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I rest my case. You go directly against God's Word with that FALSE BELIEF ABOVE.

Matt 22:30
30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.
KJV


Sorry, there won't be any fornication in the resurrection. Too bad you are so consumed with the idea of having sex. Having sex will be a thing of the past after this present world.
Really?

So no one lives on earth, and has offspring. Gotcha.

Who said anything about sex? I did not bring that up, you did.
 

n2thelight

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A whole new batch of souls. Certainly not any born from Adam's sinful flesh. There is a resurrection in Revelation 20:4. New incorruptible physical bodies given to some from the time of tribulation. Those thrones are your "elect" presiding in judgment. They do rule over. They do not rule on the earth. Those resurrected rule as priest on the earth. They have offspring. It is a rebirth of all nations on earth. But not of Adam's flesh. These are souls who have been judged by the church, and allowed to live again on the earth to populate it for 1000 years. This is John's point of Revelation 20 coming between the battle of Armageddon, where Satan is bound, and the GWT. Only after the GWT, will there be a NHNE as described in Revelation 21-22.

At the return of Christ at the 7th and last trump, ALL are changed the age of flesh will be over .The resurrection spoken of in Rev 20 are for those with mortal souls whom still can die the 2nd death

Revelation 20:5 "But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection."

If you are saved and make a stand against the Antichrist and his deceptions, you will reign with Christ 1,000 years.

Those who did take the "mark of the beast", their souls will not, I repeat, will not have an eternal spiritual body until they are tested after the millennium. I Corinthians 15:50-52 describes the mystery of the two bodies. The physical and spiritual bodies are two separate entities. There are also two spiritual bodies, one eternal, the other perishable (mortal). Those who take the mark of the beast will not have their eternal bodies at the seventh trump. Instead they will have mortal spiritual bodies (liable-to-die), and have to be taught again to learn the difference between 'the holy from the profane' for 1,000 years and then be tested at the end of it to earn that eternal body by choosing Jesus Christ.

What are we talking about when it says "the rest of the dead"? The difference in taking part in the first resurrection or not taking part -- which hinges on whether or not they were deceived by the Antichrist. Remember, John has been taken in the Spirit to the last day before Christ's return. Revelation 20 is talking about that specific day when the last trump sounds, and Jesus Christ our Lord is returning with His saints to the earth. This verse is not addressing those who died 50, 100, or at any time from any century prior to the sounding of the seventh trump. It is addressing the generation (our generation) who will live in the time of the seven seals, and those who will see some take Satan's mark (the mark of the beast) and give service to him.

I Corinthians 15:52 "Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption."

The kingdom of God is wherever Jesus Christ is, and flesh and blood cannot exist in that kingdom. When Christ returns for the Millennium age here on earth, flesh and blood bodies will not exist.

I Corinthians 15:51 "Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,"

This is a mystery that Paul is going to reveal to us that had been hidden until Paul's writing. This mystery concerns what happens at a particular point in time, for at that instant, there will be no more death. "Sleep" as used here, is # 2838 in the Strong's Greek Dictionary; "Koimesis, koy'-may-sis; from 2837, to put to sleep." We read in # 2837; "Koimao, Koy-mah'-o; to put to sleep, to decease, to be dead."

So a time is coming when all the people on the face of the earth will never see death in their flesh bodies again. This is the mystery that Paul is going to tell us; when this event shall take place.

I Corinthians 15:52 "In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed."

On the first day of the Millennium age, the "Kingdom of Heaven" will be with us on earth. You cannot enter that kingdom age in a flesh body. Therefore, it is written in verse 52 that all will be changed, in the wink of an eye, and at the last trump (seventh trump). When that seventh trump sounds, everyone on earth will be changed to an incorruptible body.

That doesn't have anything to do with your soul, or its condition. Your physical body and your spiritual body (soul) have nothing to do with the condition of one another. Your soul is your inner man that will exist in your current flesh body, and either at death or at the seventh trump, will be changed and enter into a new body (spirit body) which will not be subject to the decay this flesh body is subject to.

So, to understand what will occur in the Millennium age, you must understand that instantly following the seventh trump, all flesh bodies simply do not have life. Not one person will exist in the flesh. Every person will have the same capabilities and all will have the understanding to be taught without Satan's influence.

However, only those saints of God who have died in the flesh, or who lived and stood against Satan will take part in the first resurrection. By that I mean, will have an active part with Jesus Christ in His kingdom and reign, as he rules and teaches the earth for one thousand years, and live in their immortal soul bodies. (There will be those who stumble for a short time and bow to satan, but they will repent before the seventh trumpet. Daniel 11:34 and still be part of the first resurrection - because they repented prior to the end of this flesh age).

revelation20
 

n2thelight

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Revelation 20:12"And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works."

Notice there are two sets of books here. The first called "The Books" is to judge the unsaved. The second is the "Book of Life" where only the names of the saved are recorded. The saved have had their sins removed from God's judgment and booted out. Though they were committed, the blood of Christ has covered them from being used against us.

Notice how all souls are judged "according to their works". Does it talk about faith here after the Millennium? No. The "great white throne judgment" will not take faith into consideration. The first resurrection takes faith into consideration. That was back on "the Lord's day". That was Jesus Christ's "great day". On the last day of the Millennium age, souls are judged by works only.

Why are you judged for works only? Faith is something hoped for but unseen. You don't see Jesus Christ on earth today, you will see his wonderful works, and be led by Him and His Spirit in the Millennium age. Today He is in heaven and not walking on this earth. However, in the millennium, He will be on earth, and all will have full intelligence, with full recall and will be taught. The Heavenly Father honors all those with grace, that have accepted His Son by faith through repentance without Christ's physical presence here on earth, if you believed in His Word.

To those who are not under grace in the Millennium, their salvation will be only through and by their works. For faith doesn't exist to them. There will be no ignorance, physical handicap, for you will see, know, and experience Our Lord first hand.

If you follow the Antichrist, the first Christ to appear, you will have forfeited your salvation in this earth age. You will not be under the grace of God, and your works will be the only thing that matters on the last day of the Millennium, the day of judgment. They will be judged by works alone, for they have seen Jesus Christ, and are without excuse. The "rapture theory" leaves believers defenseless against Satan, for they will be taken in by Satan's deceptions.
 

michaelvpardo

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“Now it shall come to pass, when all these things come upon you, the blessing and the curse which I have set before you, and you call them to mind among all the nations where the Lord your God drives you, 2 and you return to the Lord your God and obey His voice, according to all that I command you today, you and your children, with all your heart and with all your soul, 3 that the Lord your God will bring you back from captivity, and have compassion on you, and gather you again from all the nations where the Lord your God has scattered you. 4 If any of you are driven out to the farthest parts under heaven, from there the Lord your God will gather you, and from there He will bring you. 5 Then the Lord your God will bring you to the land which your fathers possessed, and you shall possess it. He will prosper you and multiply you more than your fathers. 6 And the Lord your God will circumcise your heart and the heart of your descendants, to love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul, that you may live. Deuteronomy 30:16
 

michaelvpardo

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“No more shall an infant from there live but a few days,
Nor an old man who has not fulfilled his days;
For the child shall die one hundred years old,
But the sinner being one hundred years old shall be accursed.

21 They shall build houses and inhabit them;
They shall plant vineyards and eat their fruit.
22 They shall not build and another inhabit;
They shall not plant and another eat;
For as the days of a tree, so shall be the days of My people,
And My elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands.
23 They shall not labor in vain,
Nor bring forth children for trouble;
For they shall be the descendants of the blessed of the Lord,
And their offspring with them
. Isaiah 65:20-23
 

michaelvpardo

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And they shall no longer be a prey for the nations, nor shall beasts of the land devour them; but they shall dwell safely, and no one shall make them afraid. 29 I will raise up for them a garden of renown, and they shall no longer be consumed with hunger in the land, nor bear the shame of the Gentiles anymore. 30 Thus they shall know that I, the Lord their God, am with them, and they, the house of Israel, are My people,” says the Lord God.’ Ezekiel 34:28-30
 

michaelvpardo

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Therefore thus says the Lord, who redeemed Abraham, concerning the house of Jacob:

“Jacob shall not now be ashamed,
Nor shall his face now grow pale;
23 But when he sees his children,
The work of My hands, in his midst,
They will hallow My name,
And hallow the Holy One of Jacob,
And fear the God of Israel.
24 These also who erred in spirit will come to understanding,
And those who complained will learn doctrine.”
Isaiah 29:22-24
 

michaelvpardo

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“The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb,
The leopard shall lie down with the young goat,
The calf and the young lion and the fatling together;
And a little child shall lead them.
7 The cow and the bear shall graze;
Their young ones shall lie down together;
And the lion shall eat straw like the ox.
8 The nursing child shall play by the cobra’s hole,
And the weaned child shall put his hand in the viper’s den.

9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all My holy mountain,
For the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the Lord
As the waters cover the sea. Isaiah 11:6-9
 

Davy

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Really?

So no one lives on earth, and has offspring. Gotcha.

Who said anything about sex? I did not bring that up, you did.

You're just showing signs of being steeped in carnal things with your thinking.

Apostle Paul taught the resurrection body type is a "spiritual body" (1 Corinthians 15). That means a NON-FLESH BODY. And Jesus said those of the resurrection DO NOT MARRY!

It's plain to see that in your mind, you think living on this earth has to be in a flesh body. The angels that visited the saints weren't in a flesh body, and yet they ate earthly food, and even the Israelites in the wilderness at the heavenly manna, which was literally from Heaven! Obviously, there's many things in God's Word that you either are not aware of, or that you choose to not believe.
 

Timtofly

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You're just showing signs of being steeped in carnal things with your thinking.

Apostle Paul taught the resurrection body type is a "spiritual body" (1 Corinthians 15). That means a NON-FLESH BODY. And Jesus said those of the resurrection DO NOT MARRY!

It's plain to see that in your mind, you think living on this earth has to be in a flesh body. The angels that visited the saints weren't in a flesh body, and yet they ate earthly food, and even the Israelites in the wilderness at the heavenly manna, which was literally from Heaven! Obviously, there's many things in God's Word that you either are not aware of, or that you choose to not believe.
What do you think a permanent incorruptible body is? A body is a body. A spirit is a robe of white like on the mount of Transfiguration. The soul has no form. In Paradise they currently have incorruptible permanent bodies per Paul in 2 Corinthians 5. That is just being practical and consistent. Not sure where your point fits anywhere.
 

Davy

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What do you think a permanent incorruptible body is? A body is a body. A spirit is a robe of white like on the mount of Transfiguration. The soul has no form. In Paradise they currently have incorruptible permanent bodies per Paul in 2 Corinthians 5. That is just being practical and consistent. Not sure where your point fits anywhere.

The resurrection is to a "spiritual body". That is what Apostle Paul taught in 1 Corinthians 15:42-50.