The everlasting gospel, part 2: The fallen

[Timtofly]

I believe there is a 2nd chance for those who die without Christ ,that time will be during the millennium .
Many people never had a first chance .

The only chance will be when souls from sheol stand before the GWT. That will be the moment they confirm that they want to be removed from the Lamb's book of life permanently. God will honor that free choice made, without any coercion from Satan nor God to choose one way or the other. Just them and God face to face. No excuses, no false intentions, nothing to fall back on to wiggle out of the choice.

 

[Davy]

Davy my friend, I did address you about your treatment of Charity, but the post that you just quoted wasn't a response to you either. That's part of the reason I asked that the prior thread be locked, too much confusion, not enough trust, not enough faith in the Holy Spirit's service as the teacher.

You need to back off with your insults. You think it's rebuke but it's not. I posted what Charity said to show how wrong her idea was that the "everlasting gospel" is not what saves us. The "everlasting gospel" of Rev.14 is about The Gospel of Jesus Christ, so what believer on Christ Jesus would ever say that Gospel doesn't save us, because that is... the "everlasting gospel". Maybe you don't care if Charity misleads babes in Christ that come here looking for some direction, but I do. And even they wouldn't think what she said about the "everlasting gospel". And now for some reason, others are trying help Charity escape what she said, by inferring the Rev.14 Scripture was meant only for those at the end of this world, like that... somehow changes what that "everlasting gospel" means! I do believe some folks here have just about lost their minds.

 

[Davy]

Let me rephrase my question. How were people saved before Abram? Did the Lord just cast those millions into hell?

You don't know what Lord Jesus did during His resurrection? Did you ever read Isaiah 42:7? Do you know what prison He released those prisoners from, and when?

In Hebrews 7, it is pointing to Lord Jesus as Melchisedec who met Abraham. You act like Lord Jesus didn't exist until He was born of flesh woman! You ought to know better than that.

 

[Timtofly]

Whom do you feel the elect will rule over at the return of Christ?

A whole new batch of souls. Certainly not any born from Adam's sinful flesh. There is a resurrection in Revelation 20:4. New incorruptible physical bodies given to some from the time of tribulation. Those thrones are your "elect" presiding in judgment. They do rule over. They do not rule on the earth. Those resurrected rule as priest on the earth. They have offspring. It is a rebirth of all nations on earth. But not of Adam's flesh. These are souls who have been judged by the church, and allowed to live again on the earth to populate it for 1000 years. This is John's point of Revelation 20 coming between the battle of Armageddon, where Satan is bound, and the GWT. Only after the GWT, will there be a NHNE as described in Revelation 21-22.

 

[Davy]

A whole new batch of souls. Certainly not any born from Adam's sinful flesh. There is a resurrection in Revelation 20:4. New incorruptible physical bodies given to some from the time of tribulation. Those thrones are your "elect" presiding in judgment. They do rule over. They do not rule on the earth. Those resurrected rule as priest on the earth. They have offspring. It is a rebirth of all nations on earth. But not of Adam's flesh. These are souls who have been judged by the church, and allowed to live again on the earth to populate it for 1000 years. This is John's point of Revelation 20 coming between the battle of Armageddon, where Satan is bound, and the GWT. Only after the GWT, will there be a NHNE as described in Revelation 21-22.

Funny Darbyite schoolboy language.

 

[amigo de christo]

Hear one and hear all , LET THE GLORIOUS LORD BE PRAISED .
And behold , for the coming of the Lord draws nigh .
Be prepared to suffer for Christ in the days ahead . And let all be always thanking the LORD for the wonderous
mercies of His grace which is given us in Christ Jesus . SO sound those praises out unto the LORD .

 

[Marvelloustime]

Hear one and hear all , LET THE GLORIOUS LORD BE PRAISED .
And behold , for the coming of the Lord draws nigh .
Be prepared to suffer for Christ in the days ahead . And let all be always thanking the LORD for the wonderous
mercies of His grace which is given us in Christ Jesus . SO sound those praises out unto the LORD .

The glorious Lord be praised.

 

[michaelvpardo]

They were to call upon the name of the Lord, just as we read in Romans 10. And as Romans 1 tells us, they were without excuse.

But who knew the name of the Lord before Abram? My understanding is that the covenant name wasn't even given to men until the Lord spoke with Moses.

 

[michaelvpardo]

The only chance will be when souls from sheol stand before the GWT. That will be the moment they confirm that they want to be removed from the Lamb's book of life permanently. God will honor that free choice made, without any coercion from Satan nor God to choose one way or the other. Just them and God face to face. No excuses, no false intentions, nothing to fall back on to wiggle out of the choice.

They get to judge themselves?

 

[michaelvpardo]

I believe there is a 2nd chance for those who die without Christ ,that time will be during the millennium .
Many people never had a first chance .

Makes a bit more sense than a God whose character is defined by love, simply casting men, women, and children who had no opportunity to ever hear the gospel into hell.
Thank you for a reasonable response with evidence of grace in it.

 

[Enoch111]

But who knew the name of the Lord before Abram? My understanding is that the covenant name wasn't even given to men until the Lord spoke with Moses.

Since the time of Seth -- the second-born from Adam -- men knew and called upon the name of the LORD (Gen 4:25,26). That is almost since the time of creation.

And Adam knew his wife again; and she bare a son, and called his name Seth: For God, said she, hath appointed me another seed instead of Abel, whom Cain slew. And to Seth, to him also there was born a son; and he called his name Enos: then began men to call upon the name of the LORD.

 

[michaelvpardo]

A whole new batch of souls. Certainly not any born from Adam's sinful flesh. There is a resurrection in Revelation 20:4. New incorruptible physical bodies given to some from the time of tribulation. Those thrones are your "elect" presiding in judgment. They do rule over. They do not rule on the earth. Those resurrected rule as priest on the earth. They have offspring. It is a rebirth of all nations on earth. But not of Adam's flesh. These are souls who have been judged by the church, and allowed to live again on the earth to populate it for 1000 years. This is John's point of Revelation 20 coming between the battle of Armageddon, where Satan is bound, and the GWT. Only after the GWT, will there be a NHNE as described in Revelation 21-22.

Who are the remnant of the gentiles in chapter14 of the book of Zechariah?

 

[michaelvpardo]

And he showed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding from the throne of God and of the Lamb. Revelation 22:1
Is this the same as that described in chapter 47 of the book of Ezekiel?
Along the bank of the river, on this side and that, will grow all kinds of trees used for food; their leaves will not wither, and their fruit will not fail. They will bear fruit every month, because their water flows from the sanctuary. Their fruit will be for food, and their leaves for medicine.” Ezekiel 47:12
In the middle of its street, and on either side of the river, was the tree of life, which bore twelve fruits, each tree yielding its fruit every month. The leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations. Revelation 22:2

 

[amigo de christo]

The glorious Lord be praised.

That is right my dear loved sister . LET THE LORD BE PRAISED .

 

[Timtofly]

Funny Darbyite schoolboy language.

You can spend the future how you like. Making fun of people dead and alive is a great start.

 

[Timtofly]

They get to judge themselves?

Why is accepting God's Atonement considered judgment?

 

[Timtofly]

Who are the remnant of the gentiles in chapter14 of the book of Zechariah?

The remnant are part of the harvest. Souls cannot stay in these sin nature corruptible bodies. They all have to be resurrected and judged. These are covered by the Thunders. John was not allowed to write about that to the Jews nor Gentile church. No one has been told how that all works out.

 

[michaelvpardo]

Why is accepting God's Atonement considered judgment?

It's not. It's a free offer.
My understanding, though I can't be certain of it, is that everyone is judged at the great white throne judgment and the 2nd resurrection. I also understand that the saints are not harmed by the 2nd death because that's plainly stated.
I can't imagine anyone choosing "the lake of fire" over life, but clearly some at the judgment are cast into it and at the discretion of the Judge, our Lord and savior Chist Jesus, judge of the living and of the dead.
What we want to examine or identify, is who exactly it is that suffers this judgment and why they are judged.
This should be a long and likely argumentative series of posts, but we want to draw understanding out of scripture about the judged and why they're judged to destruction.
Scripture has a lot to say on the topic, but I think that it's necessary to discern the difference between the judgment of the flesh and eternal condemnation. I believe that we've already looked at scripture that supports the idea that men are judged in the flesh but may live by the Spirit, but we need to expand our understanding of what that actually means in regard to the 1st resurrection and that final judgment at the 2nd. I believe we'll get there by examining the everlasting gospel and it's implications.

 

[michaelvpardo]

The remnant are part of the harvest. Souls cannot stay in these sin nature corruptible bodies. They all have to be resurrected and judged. These are covered by the Thunders. John was not allowed to write about that to the Jews nor Gentile church. No one has been told how that all works out.

This sounds like a reasonable explanation, but leaves a number of unexplained questions. One, for instance, is where do children come from in the millennial kingdom? Where do the animals mentioned come from? The Lord said that in the resurrection, we'll be as the Angels and not given in marriage. This is also something we want to examine in as much depth as we can in order to understand the judgment of the angels.
Most people have dismissed the study of these things as irrelevant to themselves and only pertinent to the millennial kingdom, but we have them in scripture for our understanding and I believe that this study is "timely."

 

[Timtofly]

This sounds like a reasonable explanation, but leaves a number of unexplained questions. One, for instance, is where do children come from in the millennial kingdom? Where do the animals mentioned come from? The Lord said that in the resurrection, we'll be as the Angels and not given in marriage. This is also something we want to examine in as much depth as we can in order to understand the judgment of the angels.
Most people have dismissed the study of these things as irrelevant to themselves and only pertinent to the millennial kingdom, but we have them in scripture for our understanding and I believe that this study is "timely."

The church no longer has physical offspring in Paradise. Populating Paradise happened on earth, and the choice to go to Paradise happened on earth.


Revelation 20:4 is the firstfruits resurrection of the post Second Coming earth. It is to earth, not Paradise. Nor does Paradise come to earth until after the Millennium. It would be like asking if those in Paradise can take a vacation trip and visit those living on the earth, during the Millennium.

In Isaiah 65, God starts out making a new creation of the animals. Not a new creation of souls. That is a resurrection.