new version of OSAS?

[Cooper]

Yeah I do

I also know the apostle johns opinion

they were never of us, for if they were of us they never would have departed, but they departed to prove they were never of us,

just because someone claimed they have faith in God and have recieved his gift does not mean they ever knew him

By our works we are known. I suggest those who live a licentious life are not the children of God, regardless of what they claim.
.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I reckon OSAS is that wide gate for the religious do-gooders. Sorry, but that is how I feel.
.

Osas is one way. Grace through faith. How can that be the wide gate? That makes no sense. its the most narrow way of any religion on earth

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Following Jesus is not works, but thanks for that, apparently you do not believe we should follow Jesus. There is only one other master we can follow, and that is Satan.
.

I follow Jesus. as does everyone I know

But when you do it to EARN salvation. Yes my friend it is works.

I do believe we should follow Jesus. Out of faith and gratitude. Not out of a means of trying to appease him so I can be saved.

 

[amigo de christo]

Following Jesus is not works, but thanks for that, apparently you do not believe we should follow Jesus. There is only one other master we can follow, and that is Satan.
.

Shall we sin , God forbid , do you not know that to whom you obey His servants you are , whether of sin unto death
or of Obediance unto righteousness .

 

[Eternally Grateful]

By our works we are known.

Yep. Also by your gospel you are known..

I suggest those who live a licentious life are not the children of God, regardless of what they claim.
.

They are not. John said whoever sins has never known God. Its not an OSAS issue. Its a have they ever been saved issue.

Never means Never. Jude said their destruction was foreknown. They were never saved my friend. Its not OSAS. OSAS depends in the actual salvation of a person. Not a mere belief claim of faith.

 

[Addy]

I do believe we should follow Jesus. Out of faith and gratitude. Not out of a means of trying to appease him so I can be saved.

and that is the difference in the FRUIT.... The fruit of legalism is SHAME BASED.... the fruit of Grace is thanksgiving and gratitude.

 

[amigo de christo]

How does one know they truly FOLLOW JESUS . That is the question .
Well we would walk as DID HE . Who we follow , who we serve is truly whose we are and belong to .
We follow in His steps . He is our example of how we ought to walk in this present world .
We must truly learn the biblical Jesus . The words in that bible will truly make things clearer and clearer unto
those who follow Christ . Many follow men and their doctrines . We must follow Christ and Heed His doctrine .
HEEDING the SPIRIT and the doctrine of the apostels as well . Feast and feasting daily upon the bible .
Being stirred up by those pure reminders daily .

 

[Eternally Grateful]

and that is the difference in the FRUIT.... The fruit of legalism is SHAME BASED.... the fruit of Grace is thanksgiving and gratitude.

I wonder how they can compair the pharisee, who praised God he is not like the sinner (license to sin, love to sin, excuse sin, and all the other things they say about us) and not the tax collector. Who came to the end of himself got on his knees and cried out for mercy.

And think they will go home justified.

 

[amigo de christo]

Yep. Also by your gospel you are known..



They are not. John said whoever sins has never known God. Its not an OSAS issue. Its a have they ever been saved issue.

Never means Never. Jude said their destruction was foreknown. They were never saved my friend. Its not OSAS. OSAS depends in the actual salvation of a person. Not a mere belief claim of faith.

This is why i shun the all inclusive unity gospel to hades . YES , you shall know them by their gospel as well .
Any one who can claim at best that JESUS is just another way to God and not the ONLY WAY , is a liar and the truth is not in them .
And many a vatican , many a pope has hinted otherwise . And yet our leaders are running us right to unity with THAT .
Whoever can have unity with those who preach another gospel are PARTAKERS of their evil deeds . ALWAYS REMEMBER THAT .
Always remember that . WE must not partake in such unity .

 

[Addy]

I wonder how they can compair the pharisee, who praised God he is not like the sinner (license to sin, love to sin, excuse sin, and all the other things they say about us) and not the tax collector. Who came to the end of himself got on his knees and cried out for mercy.

And think they will go home justified.

I realize that my humour with a sarcastic note has not been appreciated here... It's how I cope with my frustration and disgust towards legalism.
Those who believe in the finished work of Christ on the Cross are constantly accused of embracing sin...accepting sin... living in sin... and just having a gay old time doing whatever we want... It's a NASTY and EVIL accusation. However... my point about the boasting was actually how the legalists live and fuel their self-worth and progress... they count how GOOD they are ... and they do this by either BOASTING to others about their accomplishments "for God" or they find solace by harshly judging those around them. It is a nasty ball of wax all the way around.

Anyways... I really thought this thread had died... and so I threw in the BBQ invite.... apparently that got me placed on ignore... and my humour has not been appreciated. LOL

Despite my little jabs and entries here and there... this is a topic in my life that I have experienced personally... I have seen the damage that BEING GOOD and DOING GOOD causes.... the fruits of legalism are all birthed on HAVING to... where as the fruits of GRACE are birthed on submission and offerings to CHRIST... with gratitude and thanksgiving.

Bless you.... and again... for the NEW BELIEVER... JUDGE the fruit... one will be BITTER and the other SWEET.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I realize that my humour with a sarcastic note has not been appreciated here... It's how I cope with my frustration and disgust towards legalism.
Those who believe in the finished work of Christ on the Cross are constantly accused of embracing sin...accepting sin... living in sin... and just having a gay old time doing whatever we want... It's a NASTY and EVIL accusation. However... my point about the boasting was actually how the legalists live and fuel their self-worth and progress... they count how GOOD they are ... and they do this by either BOASTING to others about their accomplishments "for God" or they find solace by harshly judging those around them. It is a nasty ball of wax all the way around.

Anyways... I really thought this thread had died... and so I threw in the BBQ invite.... apparently that got me placed on ignore... and my humour has not been appreciated. LOL

Despite my little jabs and entries here and there... this is a topic in my life that I have experienced personally... I have seen the damage that BEING GOOD and DOING GOOD causes.... the fruits of legalism are all birthed on HAVING to... where as the fruits of GRACE are birthed on submission and offerings to CHRIST.

Bless you.... and again... for the NEW BELIEVER... JUDGE the fruit... one will be BITTER and the other SWEET.

Its amazing, I have to teach on Gal 3 at our friday night church meeting. When we look at Gal 3 (legalism( and James 2 (licentiousness) Both Paul and James are united in this. that he is not telling people to be fruit inspectors. To determine if a person is saved or not. To go around and judge sinners as lost. and legalists as lost.

They BOTH are telling individuals to look inside. In pauls view.

3 Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh? 4 Have you suffered so many things in vain—if indeed it was in vain?

Are YOU... Check yourself. Are you foolish to try to add works to the grace of God. Did you suffer in vein? are you even saved.

In James. Again. Just because YOU claim you have faith. does that faith save you? Show me your faith without your works, Are you a hearer only or a hearer or a doer.

Neither of them told us to determine if another is saved. They told us to check our own faith. Is it mere belief (james) or is it is faith plus works (paul)

yet we get these legalists who call us licentious. and licentious who call us legalists.

its a crazy cycle

 

[Addy]

@Eternally Grateful .... and therein lies the problem with legalism ( besides the fact that it is a false doctrine and a dangerous one )...
those who practice it aren't too keen at knowing themselves... they neglect to check their own fruit because they are too busy looking at others. Confessing sin to one another is not something they seem to feel obliged to practice.. because it reveals the fact that they are NOT GOOD.
It really is a very sad and sick cycle.... Anyways... I am learning where to place my words... and to whom I choose to give them to.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

@Eternally Grateful .... and therein lies the problem with legalism ( besides the fact that it is a false doctrine and a dangerous one )...
those who practice it aren't too keen at knowing themselves... they neglect to check their own fruit because they are too busy looking at others. Confessing sin to one another is not something they seem to feel obliged to practice.. because it reveals the fact that they are NOT GOOD.
It really is a very sad and sick cycle.... Anyways... I am learning where to place my words... and to whom I choose to give them to.

I heard a teaching once which took me by surprised. It shed light that Licentiousness and legalism are both rooted in the same issue. Pride

Pride that we are going to do it our way. And how dare anyone tell us any different.

 

[Cooper]

Osas is one way. Grace through faith. How can that be the wide gate? That makes no sense. its the most narrow way of any religion on earth

You are missing out a lot of Bible teaching. (As the cults do.)
.

 

[Addy]

Pride that we are going to do it our way. And how dare anyone tell us any different.

Yep... legalism is all about self... me me me and my goodness... It's also based on LACK of faith... as they do NOT trust CHRIST to keep His PROMISES.. HE promised to His children... TO FINISH what HE has begun... which is a good work.... not what we have done.

 

[Cooper]

I follow Jesus. as does everyone I know

But when you do it to EARN salvation. Yes my friend it is works.

I do believe we should follow Jesus. Out of faith and gratitude. Not out of a means of trying to appease him so I can be saved.

No way am I trying to appease Jesus. It is a love thing, we are in a relationship.

It sounds to me like you are doing it out of a sense of duty.
.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

You are missing out a lot of Bible teaching. (As the cults do.)
.

oh? Your teaching pretty much the same Gospel the jews taught (*salvation by Jesus plus). so who is missing out?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Yep... legalism is all about self... me me me and my goodness... It's also based on LACK of faith... as they do NOT trust CHRIST to keep His PROMISES.. HE promised to His children... TO FINISH what HE has begun.... not what we have done.

Amen.

Its all about me and what I did. All my hard work. and hare dare to tell me my work will account for nothing when it comes to salvation.

It is why the jews rejected andcrucified Christ.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

No way am I trying to appease Jesus. It is a love thing, we are in a relationship.

It sounds to me like you are doing it out of a sense of duty.
.

How can you say you love Jesus, yet reject his payment for sin. by trying to insert your own works as equal with his? and denying his own mercy and grace with which he is offering to save you?

 

[Taken]

For me, I do not believe in teaching OSAS as the Gospel.

And that's okay with me.
It's no different than some saying, they don't believe in "christian teaching or mormon teaching or islam teaching"... their option.

It is When, one who "disagress", thereafter attempts to "wrongly" define an others beliefs, that becomes a stage for dispute.

For I believe the Gospel First must be the Gospel of the kingdom that is inclusive of the atonement.
The evangelizism that has been employed goes like this:

I believe in OSAS, as well as the Gospel Word of the Lord God.

Believe Jesus died and Rose ...
Are saved.

Agree.

...when you die, "you" go to heaven

eh, do not agree.
IF converted (soul saved, spirit born again),
Your saved soul, goes to Heaven.
Your born again spirit, goes to Heaven.
Your BODY returns to the dust of the Earth, from whence it came.

it leaves out the Kingdom and regeneration

It doesn't leave out the Kingdom or regeneration...IT harmonizes with the Kingdom and regeneration taught in other Scriptures.

the outcome is usually untransformed lives which by the Spirit, then stated in Roman's one uphold the law.

Taught TO WHOM Specifically?
Uphold WHAT LAW Specifically?

Whereby which we know in John 14, that IF we keep his words the father and son come to make their abode with us.

Sure. A BIG "IF", for those hearing, believing, following.....BUT HAVE NOT CONFESSED and RECEIVED SALVATION, eh?
(THEY, (the unsaved), are expressly notified...THEY, by their own will and power, must do the KEEPING of Gods Word.
* I am not concerned with that "IF".
I already heartfully CONFESSED and became soul saved, spirit quicked, bodily crucified with Christ....and received Gods INDWELLING SPIRIT (POWER), that GODS Spirit/POWER KEEPS me Forever in Express Faithfulness to the Lord God and His Word of Truth.

* Do you Understand, a man confessing Heartful Belief IN the Lord God....IS expressly the man giving God Authority over his entire LIFE (body, soul, spirit) ? Authority TO Save the mans soul, quicken his spirit, accept their bodily death crucified with Christ, and Gods POWER to SEAL them and KEEP THEM once and forever.

* IF, you willingly GIVE that authority and power to God...over your entire self (body, soul, spirit).... the why presume it is not sufficient ?

For it is First believing by Faith that Jesus is the Son of God that is the Foundation

.

Well actually ... Faith is a gift from God...FOR expressly "HEARING the Word of God"...which comes long BEFORE a man "believes".
It is silly to believe, you believe in something you don't first "HEAR and LEARN ABOUT".
It's like telling a child, Believe in God...and the child says, what is a god?
Learning the KNOWLEDGE "ABOUT", is first, as taught in Scripture.
THEN ponder, think, listen to your HEARTS thoughts (not your minds thoughts)....and decide IF you are WILLING to accept the Lord Gods Offering.

Point is John, Jesus, and the disciples preached the Kingdom of God and things concerning the kingdom.

Sure they did. And which Salvation is connected to Gods Kingdom and the Lords Kingdom, this thread is about Salvation.

one has to be regenerated [born from above] first.

First before having entitlement to ENTER the Lord Gods Kingdom... but again the Kingdom is not the express topic.

For Ephesians says "13 says :

In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,"

Well aware and have already mentioned...
Hear, learn, trust, believe, confess...become Converted, become sealed, Once and Forever.

Order and Way and Who, What, When, Why, Where, How, Effects/results...is all taught in scripture.
Men are individuals. Not all men are born, hear, learn, observe, know or understand the exact same things at the exact same time...
Scripture speaks of a Gate and Path...Gender or Age does not determine WHO will choose the narrow Gate, or when, or HOW FAR they have traveled on the Path, hearing, learning, experiencing, testifying of their experiences.

For How one continues to receive the atoning work is "in" him.

How one continues to receive the Lords "Forgiveness....FOR WHAT exactly"?
Please answer that.

[QUOTE Yet the evangelizism style that many OSASers have heard was to trust in what He did......to secure heaven when they died.... [/QUOTE]

And ??
Trusting what He DID, is a problem?
And??
Is that the LIMIT of what "evangelizing style and OSAS teaches" (according to you?)

But again they preached what He did so that you would trust in the one in which forgiveness comes through.

Again, I have no Problem with evangelical preaching to TRUST the Lord God...nor in the least do I believe TRUST is the LIMIT of evangelical teaching.

Glory to God,
Taken