When You See the Abomination of Desolation Stand in the Holy Place

[Curtis]

Did I claim God created an illusion? Changing the subject.

Which verse in the Bible claims God created a universe 14 billion years ago? Which verse claims God created a universe that looks like it was created 14 billion years ago?

Stick to the topic of Satan creating in the minds of humans a virtual reality that science claims is 14 billion years old.

Gnostics denied the science that claimed the earth is 14 billion years old?

Why do you hold on to the Gnostic pagan belief in a prior creation of a mystical realm?

In case you don’t realize it, you said Satan created an illusion in our mind - this world isn’t a satanic matrix. It’s real - and it doesn’t look 14 billion years old, so there’s no illusion. Science claiming it’s that old is a lie, not an illusion. They play games with radiometric dating.

Shalom

 

[Curtis]

They all were given permanent incorruptible bodies made by God. God did not heal their Adamic tent of this corruptible dead flesh. 2 Corinthians 5.

1 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:

3 If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.

We should know there are not any naked souls running around in Paradise. The first resurrection is physical, an incorruptible body.

Paradise is a physical place with perfect sinless physical bodies. Jesus has a physical body and so does every one else in Paradise. The change is the soul leaving one corruptible body to enter one incorruptible body.

It wasn’t a resurrection with immortal bodies, which only happens at the rapture/second coming.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Job's body remains in the grave, but Job himself is in Heaven with all the other OT saints. At the Resurrection/Rapture he will receive his resurrected, immortal, glorified body.

what of Hebrews 12:22-23 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, [23] To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,

no Job there huh? Even though God turned the captivity of Job when he prayed for his friends and restored twice as much as was lost? Personally when Job said: I had heard of you with my hearing but now my eye has seen you …(Imo) Job saw the Resurrection of Christ.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

I have no knowledge from the Bible that Job arose and went into the city

I have no knowledge from the Word that Job arose and went into the city of the living God (where nothing defiled enters into)…sure you do, only maybe rather not see it Hebrews 12:22-23 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, [23] To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,


Isaiah 52:1 Awake, awake; put on thy strength, O Zion; put on thy beautiful garments, O Jerusalem, the holy city: for henceforth there shall no more come into thee the uncircumcised and the unclean.

Once reading how it is disputed the Word is riddled with contradictions the above verse was given.. Saying that can’t be…as seen today in Jerusalem that is a contradiction “for henceforth there shall no more come into thee the uncircumcised and the unclean.”

 

[Enoch111]

no Job there huh?

You are the one who said he was in his grave. So this passage refutes what you said.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

You are the one who said he was in his grave. So this passage refutes what you said.

If I said that then it was an error, because instead I was asking if Job came out from the grave when it opened.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

instead I was asking if Job came out from the grave when it opened?

Ezekiel 37:12-14 Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God ; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel. [13] And ye shall know that I am the Lord, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves, [14] And shall put my spirit in you, (not the spirit the world gives you, but the Spirit of God) and ye shall live, and I shall place you in your own land: then shall ye know that I the Lord have spoken it, and performed it, saith the Lord.

Matthew 27:52-53 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, [53] And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

1 Thessalonians 5:23-24 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. [24] Faithful is he that calleth you, (out from the Tomb “come forth Lazarus!”), who also will do ..perform…it.

Yet do we propose Job is instead Luke 11:44 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are as graves which appear not, and the men that walk over them are not aware of them.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Mark,
When I get more time, I want to rethink the time elements in prophecy. I want to explore the idea that we weren't meant to calculate the duration as we typically do. At this point, I'm not saying that I disagree with you. But I must admit that I, myself, didn't come to the conclusion that "time, times, and half a time" is 1260 days or 3.5 years. Obviously, it can be interpreted that way and I have no reason to doubt it, except for one small pebble in my shoe (so to speak) that keeps bugging me. Why does the Bible have so many different ways to indicate 1260 days? I suspect that the description itself is intended to convey meaning.

I wondered this as well. Why 3.5 years, why 42 months, and why 1260 days? Obviously, these different measures of time spans have a different impact, depending on where you're standing. If you're looking at years, you're looking at seasonal measures, managing for supply and survival. If you're looking at months, you're looking at navigating something like a journey that has to be pre-planned. If you're looking at days, you're looking at immediate needs.

For example, the 2 witnesses prophecy for 1260 days, which emphasize each day being a testimony, instead of a broad stretch of time in which this testimony takes place. The 42 months Jerusalem is trampled indicates not so much a daily trampling, but more, general state of being trampled, and having to deal with it throughout the year and not just generally for a period of years.

I do think that all 3 descriptions of 3.5 years are the same period, and draws our attention back to Dan 7, where this period of Antichrist's rule if first described. Those who try to attach two periods of 3.5 years to make 7 years do so to try to fit Daniel's 70th Week into the endtimes. I think this is illegitimate, because separating the 70th Week from the 1st 69 Weeks destroys the whole concept of a linear period of time. It would therefore no longer be a 70 Week period, but rather, two separate periods, one 69 Weeks and the other 1 Week.

In reality, the 70th Week of Daniel is finished in the middle of the Week. It is still the "70th Week," but it doesn't have to be a complete Week, since in fact the main event takes place in the Middle of the Week. That main event is, in my opinion, the death of Christ. The fall of Jerusalem follows.

 

[Curtis]

I have no knowledge from the Word that Job arose and went into the city of the living God (where nothing defiled enters into)…sure you do, only maybe rather not see it Hebrews 12:22-23 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, [23] To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,


Isaiah 52:1 Awake, awake; put on thy strength, O Zion; put on thy beautiful garments, O Jerusalem, the holy city: for henceforth there shall no more come into thee the uncircumcised and the unclean.

Once reading how it is disputed the Word is riddled with contradictions the above verse was given.. Saying that can’t be…as seen today in Jerusalem that is a contradiction “for henceforth there shall no more come into thee the uncircumcised and the unclean.”

Excuse me? The city that Jesus and the saints that also rose and went into, was the same 1st century city He died in - not the city in the future that Jesus goes to at His second coming - you seem to be mixed up on some of the details.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Excuse me? The city that Jesus and the saints that also rose and went into, was the same 1st century city He died in - not the city in the future that Jesus goes to at His second coming - you seem to be mixed up on some of the details.

The saints that also rose from the dead with Christ and enter in…entered in to what city? Not this city of the living God??? Hebrews 12:22-23 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, [23] To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,


I’m not sure but when the rocks were rent, the veil (over hearts)torn from top to bottom and those who slept (as in awake thou that sleep, awake unto righteousness and Christ will give thee light)…the graves opened and they came out of their tombs (as Legion-we are many-who sat in the tombs all day cutting himself upon the rocks)… “witnessed of many that “they live”. what you propose is they rose from the dead to die again …when the Word says: blessed are those of the first resurrection “having passed from death into Life” having entered into “the City of the Living God” that is “New Jerusalem” from above.

 

[Curtis]

The saints that also rose from the dead with Christ and enter in…entered in to what city? Not this city of the living God??? Hebrews 12:22-23 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, [23] To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,


I’m not sure but when the rocks were rent, the veil (over hearts)torn from top to bottom and those who slept (as in awake thou that sleep, awake unto righteousness and Christ will give thee light)…the graves opened and they came out of their tombs (as Legion-we are many-who sat in the tombs all day cutting himself upon the rocks)… “witnessed of many that “they live”. what you propose is they rose from the dead to die again …when the Word says: blessed are those of the first resurrection “having passed from death into Life” having entered into “the City of the Living God” that is “New Jerusalem” from above.

The city Jesus resurrected in was the exact city He died in. Then He ascended to heaven. When He descends again at the second advent, the city New Jerusalem descends down from heaven, too. Revelation 21.

You’re still mixing up the spiritual with the physical.

 

[Curtis]

Trollop Curtis.... you attempt to confuse your readers just as much as you are muddling the scriptures to suit your nonsense

I can lead a horse to water, but can’t make them drink.

That was just the short version of the truckload of evidence that soul sleep is completely bogus.

But since it’s obvious that you took no time to even bother to look at the posted scriptures. nor have anything at all to say to refute the irrefutable facts, such as that the soul departs from the body at death, or that there are conscious beings who speak dwelling UNDER the earth, such as in hades, it would be a waste of time.

Belief in dirt napping goes hand in hand with annihilation doctrine, and both are error - it’s not a salvational issue to believe in that, fortunately - but it is so blatantly bogus that I can’t believe anyone would fall for it - yet they do.

 

[quietthinker]

I can lead a horse to water, but can’t make them drink.

That was just the short version of the truckload of evidence that soul sleep is completely bogus.

But since it’s obvious that you took no time to even bother to look at the posted scriptures. nor have anything at all to say to refute the irrefutable facts, such as that the soul departs from the body at death, or that there are conscious beings who speak dwelling UNDER the earth, such as in hades, it would be a waste of time.

Belief in dirt napping goes hand in hand with annihilation doctrine, and both are error - it’s not a salvational issue to believe in that, fortunately - but it is so blatantly bogus that I can’t believe anyone would fall for it - yet they do.

You are setting yourself up perfectly to believe the 'doctrines of Devils' but know it not!

 

[Timtofly]

It wasn’t a resurrection with immortal bodies, which only happens at the rapture/second coming.

Show me a verse saying immortal body.

 

[Enoch111]

Show me a verse saying immortal body.

Really? Well here's the verse: For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. (1 Cor 15:53)
What is "this"? Check out the entire chapter.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

The city Jesus resurrected in was the exact city He died in. Then He ascended to heaven. When He descends again at the second advent, the city New Jerusalem descends down from heaven, too. Revelation 21.

You’re still mixing up the spiritual with the physical.

Is that such a bad thing …or is the physical the first priority? Get that right and everything else aligns? For the record I’m not against being wrong. It might be less to endure. But still in Jesus Christ coming with the saints…Job would be with Him yes? Not sure how it is proposed (not saying by you) that Job remains in the grave and that verse of Job saying he will see his Lord in his own flesh stand upon the earth is proof Job comes out from the grave in the future at Christ return. (Hope that makes sense)…

way off topic but concerning the abomination of desolation it all seems to go hand-in-hand in how someone sees it unfolding: rapture, Antichrist, Abomination of desolation, tribulation, His return and Reign…

 

[Timtofly]

Really? Well here's the verse: For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. (1 Cor 13:53)
What is "this"? Check out the entire chapter.

Immortality is not physical nor a body. It is our spirit of light. Symbolized by putting on a robe of white. Revelation 6:11

11 And white robes were given unto every one of them.

The soul puts on an incorruptible body (physical) and then the body puts on a robe of light (spiritual). This is the complete image of God. Soul, body and spirit.

Nothing in 1 Corinthians 13 says immortal body. It says puts on immortality, ie the spirit.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Nothing in 1 Corinthians 13 says immortal body. It says puts on immortality, ie the spirit.

Ephesians 4:21-24 If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus: [22] That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts; [23] And be renewed in the spirit of your mind; [24] And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

Galatians 5:22-25 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, [23] Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. [24] And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. [25] If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

11 And white robes were given unto every one of them.

Not sure I understand your post but it does make me think of: Revelation 19:8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

 

[Timtofly]

Not sure I understand your post but it does make me think of: Revelation 19:8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

In the account of the Transfiguration of Christ we see how the spirit is put on around the body. Spiritual death is being separated from the image of God. This corruptible flesh cannot handle the transfiguration aspect of the image. That is why we are given the Holy Spirit instead of being in the full image of God.