When You See the Abomination of Desolation Stand in the Holy Place

[marks]

Let the reader understand. What should they understand?

Matthew 24:15-30 KJV
15) When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand)
16) Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17) Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18) Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19) And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20) But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
21) For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22) And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
23) Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24) For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25) Behold, I have told you before.
26) Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27) For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
28) For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
29) Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30) And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

The AOD,
Then the great tribulation
Then Jesus comes.

This is end of age.

People will be able to see it, and respond with material action.

This is visible behavior.

There are a number of different understandings of what the Abomination of Desolation is. What's yours?

Mine is basically that the Man of Sin, the one who will lead the empire of the beast, will sit in the rebuilt Jewish temple, proclaiming himself God.

Do you agree?

Much love!

 

[CharismaticLady]

Let the reader understand. What should they understand?

Matthew 24:15-30 KJV
15) When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand)
16) Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17) Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18) Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19) And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20) But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
21) For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22) And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
23) Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24) For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25) Behold, I have told you before.
26) Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27) For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
28) For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
29) Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30) And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

The AOD,
Then the great tribulation
Then Jesus comes.

This is end of age.

People will be able to see it, and respond with material action.

This is visible behavior.

There are a number of different understandings of what the Abomination of Desolation is. What's yours?

Mine is basically that the Man of Sin, the one who will lead the empire of the beast, will sit in the rebuilt Jewish temple, proclaiming himself God.

Do you agree?

Much love!

Regarding Daniel in verse 15, some believe that is Daniel 9:24-27, but it is the little horn of Daniel 7. Daniel 9 has to do with the destruction of the temple in 70 AD, and Daniel 7 is about the Ancient of Days and the second coming's time of the end.

 

[marks]

Regarding Daniel in verse 15, some believe that is Daniel 9:24-27, but it is the little horn of Daniel 7. Daniel 9 has to do with the destruction of the temple in 70 AD, and Daniel 7 is about the Ancient of Days and the second coming's time of the end.

This part?

Daniel 7:8 "I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another horn, a little one, before which three of the first horns were plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of a man, and a mouth speaking great things."

Daniel 7:25 KJV
And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

Much love!

 

[dismas]

Let the reader understand. What should they understand?

Matthew 24:15-30 KJV
15) When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand)
16) Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17) Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18) Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19) And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20) But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
21) For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22) And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
23) Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24) For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25) Behold, I have told you before.
26) Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27) For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
28) For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
29) Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30) And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

The AOD,
Then the great tribulation
Then Jesus comes.

This is end of age.

People will be able to see it, and respond with material action.

This is visible behavior.

There are a number of different understandings of what the Abomination of Desolation is. What's yours?

Mine is basically that the Man of Sin, the one who will lead the empire of the beast, will sit in the rebuilt Jewish temple, proclaiming himself God.

Do you agree?

Much love!

No

1 Cor 3:16

Do you not know that you are God’s temple and that God’s Spirit dwells in you?
​

What is holy about a rebuilt Jewish temple?

 

[marks]

No

1 Cor 3:16

Do you not know that you are God’s temple and that God’s Spirit dwells in you?
​

What is holy about a rebuilt Jewish temple?

Is the man of sin going to sit in you?

Much love!

 

[Jay Ross]

The AOD,
Then the great tribulation
Then Jesus comes.

This is end of age.

People will be able to see it, and respond with material action.

This is visible behavior.

There are a number of different understandings of what the Abomination of Desolation is. What's yours?

Mine is basically that the Man of Sin, the one who will lead the empire of the beast, will sit in the rebuilt Jewish temple, proclaiming himself God.

Do you agree?

This part?

Daniel 7:8 "I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another horn, a little one, before which three of the first horns were plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of a man, and a mouth speaking great things."

Daniel 7:25 KJV
And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

15) When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand)

Marks, your understanding is the traditional understanding of man.

The AOD standing in the holy place does not mean that there will be a rebuilt temple in Jerusalem in our distant future as you are suggesting.

Daniel 9:24 tells us that Jesus will do these 4 things: -

1. To make reconciliation for iniquity,

2. To bring in everlasting righteousness,

3. To seal up vision and prophecy,

4. And to anoint the Most Holy.

We are not told what the "Most Holy" is, and as such many have assumed that this is a reference to the Holy of Holies that was in the temple, but all of Jerusalem will be Holy unto the Lord, because this is the place where God comes down to after the GWTRJ. The Temple of God is built after this happens when the Saints assemble to become the Temple of the Living God.

We should understand that Daniel 7: verses 8 and 25, are separated by over 1,000 years.

Yes, the Little Horn is today causing great words of blasphemy to be spoken out by the peoples of the earth. In just over a 1,000 years time, during which time he will be in the Bottomless pit, after which he rise up from the Bottomless Pit as the False Prophet, to wear out the saints and to change the times and the law, but he is not the primary one who brings and causes desolation among the nations, that is Satan's role.

Yes, Marks, your premise that the End of the Age of the Ages, will occur as you are suggesting, but you also believe, if my memory is correct, because you said in another thread, that the Beast and the false prophet will be thrown into the Lake of Fire, 1,000 years before Satan will be.

Somehow, your understanding of the End times does not gel in my humble opinion.

Shalom

 

[David H.]

Is the man of sin going to sit in you?

Research "transhumanism"

 

[marks]

Research "transhumanism"

Not God's children.

Much love!

 

[marks]

We are not told what the "Most Holy" is, and as such many have assumed that this is a reference to the Holy of Holies that was in the temple,

If this is what you are thinking, I'm not making that assumption.

Much love!

 

[marks]

We should understand that Daniel 7: verses 8 and 25, are separated by over 1,000 years.

And this has to do with your view that prophetic days are actually 1000 year stretches?

Much love!

 

[Randy Kluth]

Let the reader understand. What should they understand?

My position resembles the position of most of the Church Fathers, though there are variations in their view. The AoD is based on Dan 9.26-27, and represents the historical destruction of the temple in 70 AD. The AoD is therefore the Roman Army, surrounding the walls of Jerusalem, before destroying the temple. Luke 21 seems to make this clear.

The Great Tribulation only begins at that point, and is described by Jesus as an age-long punishment of the Jewish People. They turned away from Christ to corruption, and refused to repent of it. They were therefore sent into exile, to endure the Jewish Diaspora until Christ's return.

This isn't to say that all Jews in all times have guilt for what the Jews in the 1st century did. They just suffer the consequences of the Jewish decision to reject Christianity for their people. A remnant always converts to Christ. One day, the nation will experience final judgment, and the nation will be restored to God and will turn to Christianity. That will mark the end of their "great tribulation."

A lot of confusion comes over the term "great tribulation," because Jesus describes it not just as Jewish suffering for their sins, but also as a suffering Christians endure from obstinate Jews. Well yes, the fall of Israel into national tribulation became a double curse for Christians. Not only did they suffer the fall of the nation, with all that represents, but they also are rejected by the Jews for their conversion to Christianity.

They also will be delivered when Christ returns. And they'll be rewarded for doing the right thing, and will be assigned places of judgment in the new age.

There are 2 AoDs in the book of Daniel. In Dan 9, the AoD is, I believe, the Roman Army. In Dan 8 and 11 the AoD is Antiochus 4. Neither AoD is the Antichrist. And when Jesus referred to the book of Daniel in his Olivet Discourse, he was referring to the AoD in Dan 9.27. It was, I believe, the Roman Army.

 

[marks]

Exodus 8:25-27 KJV
25) And Pharaoh called for Moses and for Aaron, and said, Go ye, sacrifice to your God in the land.
26) And Moses said, It is not meet so to do; for we shall sacrifice the abomination of the Egyptians to the LORD our God: lo, shall we sacrifice the abomination of the Egyptians before their eyes, and will they not stone us?
27) We will go three days' journey into the wilderness, and sacrifice to the LORD our God, as he shall command us.

They were planning to sacrifice cows. The Egyptians worshiped cows. Cows were an idol, a false god.

Abomination . . . the man of sin . . . in the holy place . . . just like in Daniel 8, where this is pre-figured.

Much love!

 

[David H.]

Not God's children.

"The Son of Perdition"

 

[marks]

A lot of confusion comes over the term "great tribulation," because Jesus describes it not just as Jewish suffering for their sins, but also as a suffering Christians endure from obstinate Jews.

Matthew 24:21-22 KJV
21) For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22) And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

Many see this passage as relating:

Revelation 3:10 KJV
Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

I don't understand the "great tribulation" to be about the Jews suffering for sins, rather, to push them to Jesus.

Perhaps a thread comparing and contrasting Luke's and Matthew's records?

Luke recorded the prophecy of the destruction of Jerusalem, and the scattering of the Jews. Matthew recorded Jesus' prophecy of the end of the age.

Luke 21:10-12 KJV
10) Then said he unto them, Nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom:
11) And great earthquakes shall be in divers places, and famines, and pestilences; and fearful sights and great signs shall there be from heaven.
12) But before all these, they shall lay their hands on you, and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name's sake.

Much love!

 

[marks]

"The Son of Perdition"

I guess I don't think of unregererate man to be a "holy place".

Much love!

 

[marks]

So there is this idea out there,

2 Thessalonians 2:3-4 KJV
3) Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4) Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

I hear this idea sometimes that this passage is saying Satan sits in the hearts of God's people, and they worship him thinking he - the devil - is actually God.

Can God and Satan both live in the same person? I find that idea completely irreconcilable to the Bible.

Hebrews 2:14-15 KJV
14) Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
15) And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.

I for one completely reject the notion that having rescued us from the bondage of the devil inflicted through the fear of death, that God will then share us with that same devil. No way!

Much love!

 

[David H.]

I guess I don't think of unregererate man to be a "holy place".

Watch the last four minutes of this video for a short synopsis of what the transhumanist Idea means.

It might begin to explain why I am so adamant about being Spirit taught. The Battle is for your mind. That is where Satan can dwell even in a believer, if you give him place to be there.

 

[marks]

Watch the last four minutes of this video for a short synopsis of what the transhumanist Idea means.

I already understand.

* And of course the Spirit must teach us! That's like, Christianity 101. Witness all the crazy ideas out there!

Much love!

 

[marks]

That is where Satan can dwell even in a believer, if you give him place to be there.

I do not believe that God will share His child with the devil.

Can God and Satan both live in the same person? I find that idea completely irreconcilable to the Bible.

Hebrews 2:14-15 KJV
14) Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
15) And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.

I for one completely reject the notion that having rescued us from the bondage of the devil inflicted through the fear of death, that God will then share us with that same devil. No way!

Much love!

 

[marks]

We are living stones being built into a living temple, yes! This is Scripture. Is this the holy place in which the man of sin will sit?

If you answer yes, let me ask you . . . is the man of sin omnipresent?

Much love!