God changed Seventh Day Sabbath Worship to First Day of the Week

[Curtis]

The Two and The Ten are of one and the same Eternal New Covenant of the only Eternal God of Grace and Love.

THE TWO LOVE COMMANDS VS THE DECALOGUE (TEN COMMANDS)


The argument is frequently made that the two love commands just restate the ten commands, as if they are equivalent to each.other.


This is not so.


The first obvious difference is there are no days commanded to be kept in the two love commands.


But the most glaring difference between them isn’t readily apparent, but is a huge difference indeed.


So let’s compare them.


If you keep the two love commands you keep some of the ten commands, but in reality the two love commands far exceed the ten.


The ten commands - as they pertain to our relationship with other people - are negative commands: they only limit BAD behavior, by telling us what harm we CANT do to others - yet they don’t promote ANY positive acts of good will and good behavior towards your neighbor.


And they were kept out of fear of punishment - they had the death penalty by stoning, for breaking them.


And there’s not one drop of love for your neighbor, found in the Decalogue.


Whereas in comparison, the two love commands are positive commands, instead of negative.


If you love your neighbor as yourself, you won’t kill him, steal from him, or lie against him, etc, and therefore in effect keep 6 of the ten.


But when you love your neighbor as yourself, you’ll go far beyond a mere six negative commands, that only tell you what harm you CAN’T do to your neighbor.


You won’t gossip about him for just one example - and there’s no command that says thou shalt not gossip about your neighbor.


In fact you won’t do ANY of the things that would do some kind of harm to your neighbor, which far exceeds a mere 6 limitations.


Jesus didn’t say, “love does none of the 6 things to harm your neighbor prohibited by the ten commands, thus love fulfills the law”.


He said instead, that love does NO HARM to your neighbor, so love fulfills the law.


Get the difference?


The two love commands go far beyond the ten commands in how well you treat your fellow man - instead of just limiting any harm you’d do to your neighbor to six things - if you love him you won’t do ANY HARM to him in any way, shape or form.


And the two love commands also go far beyond not doing any kind of harm to your neighbor - if you love him as yourself, besides not harming him, you will HELP him in every kind of way.


If you love your neighbor you’ll mow his lawn when he breaks his leg, for just one example.


If you’re just keeping the Decalogue, you can do things harmful to him NOT prohibited by the 6 limitations in it, and ignore any dire needs he has - yet still pat yourself on the back for keeping the Ten commands to a tee.


That’s why the two love commands are far superior to the very limited ten commands, and they’re kept for a very different motive than fear of being stoned to death under the law.


Thus you really can’t equate the ten commands to the two love commands, nor claim that the two merely restate the ten - when in reality they are far different - as different as night and day.

 

[Curtis]

does not speak of different and successive covenants but of the only ever New Covenant of God's Grace and Love that was able to shed that which grew old and was disappearing -- the Eternal Covenant that had reached end-purpose and meaning IN CHRIST AND WAS TO BE CONTINUED IN ITS END-PURPUSE ITSELF the Eternal NEW Covenant of God in "Christ the all in ALL fulfilling Fullness of God given to the Church as HEAD."

Mark well that Christ is The End and The All, in ALL and every one, from the Old to ALL and every one of New Testament believers in Jesus Christ WITHOUT DISTINCTION.

The new covenant is a better covenant founded on better promises, and the old covenant is gone.

Do you have a Bible? Do you understand that TESTAMENT and COVENANT have the same meaning?

Your bible has two sections - THE OLD COVENANT, and THE NEW COVENANT

Even the index in your Bible tells you that there is a new covenant and old covenant.

Inside your Bible it says the old covenant has ended.

Guess when it ended? When God divorced Israel for adultery.

No, I’m not into replacement theology. There’s a new covenant, still with the House of Israel.

The new covenant was put into effect at Jesus’ death.<—- more facts - see Hebrews 8 and 9.

 

[Curtis]

You are no apostle, and you are, like I am, completely unqualified and UNCALLED for and unfit to be found by God an "able minister".

The apostle Paul wrote that. It should have been very clear that I posted that verse to prove that the old covenant is gone, replaced by the new one, ministered to us by the apostles of Jesus.

Why do you major on the minors?

It looks like a strategy of distraction to avoid the facts.

The old covenant is gone. It was the letter that kills and brings death.

The old covenant law was given at Sinai, and 3,000 immediately died.

The new covenant church began in Acts 2, and 3,000 were born again and saved that day.

The letter kills, but the spirit gives life <—— what Paul wrote to contrast the two covenants.

 

[Curtis]

Blasphemy of the first degree. It is degrading for anyone to discuss as it is for the things of God to be discussed with such a man as you.

Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Any more questions? We are righteous by faith, in the new covenant

Yet you call that blasphemy.

One more:

Heb 11:7 By faith Noah, being warned by God concerning events as yet unseen, in reverent fear constructed an ark for the saving of his household. By this he condemned the world and became an heir of the righteousness that comes by faith.

Christians are righteous by faith, thus when Paul says the law WAS NOT MEANT FOR A RIGHTEOUS MAN, but for sinners, and for the ungodly, that means we as Christians are not under that law anymore.

Hmm... do you suppose that’s why Paul said we HAVE DIED TO THE LAW? Ya think?

Shalom

 

[post]

THE TWO LOVE COMMANDS VS THE DECALOGUE (TEN COMMANDS)


The argument is frequently made that the two love commands just restate the ten commands, as if they are equivalent to each.other.


This is not so.


The first obvious difference is there are no days commanded to be kept in the two love commands.


But the most glaring difference between them isn’t readily apparent, but is a huge difference indeed.


So let’s compare them.


If you keep the two love commands you keep some of the ten commands, but in reality the two love commands far exceed the ten.


The ten commands - as they pertain to our relationship with other people - are negative commands: they only limit BAD behavior, by telling us what harm we CANT do to others - yet they don’t promote ANY positive acts of good will and good behavior towards your neighbor.


And they were kept out of fear of punishment - they had the death penalty by stoning, for breaking them.


And there’s not one drop of love for your neighbor, found in the Decalogue.


Whereas in comparison, the two love commands are positive commands, instead of negative.


If you love your neighbor as yourself, you won’t kill him, steal from him, or lie against him, etc, and therefore in effect keep 6 of the ten.


But when you love your neighbor as yourself, you’ll go far beyond a mere six negative commands, that only tell you what harm you CAN’T do to your neighbor.


You won’t gossip about him for just one example - and there’s no command that says thou shalt not gossip about your neighbor.


In fact you won’t do ANY of the things that would do some kind of harm to your neighbor, which far exceeds a mere 6 limitations.


Jesus didn’t say, “love does none of the 6 things to harm your neighbor prohibited by the ten commands, thus love fulfills the law”.


He said instead, that love does NO HARM to your neighbor, so love fulfills the law.


Get the difference?


The two love commands go far beyond the ten commands in how well you treat your fellow man - instead of just limiting any harm you’d do to your neighbor to six things - if you love him you won’t do ANY HARM to him in any way, shape or form.


And the two love commands also go far beyond not doing any kind of harm to your neighbor - if you love him as yourself, besides not harming him, you will HELP him in every kind of way.


If you love your neighbor you’ll mow his lawn when he breaks his leg, for just one example.


If you’re just keeping the Decalogue, you can do things harmful to him NOT prohibited by the 6 limitations in it, and ignore any dire needs he has - yet still pat yourself on the back for keeping the Ten commands to a tee.


That’s why the two love commands are far superior to the very limited ten commands, and they’re kept for a very different motive than fear of being stoned to death under the law.


Thus you really can’t equate the ten commands to the two love commands, nor claim that the two merely restate the ten - when in reality they are far different - as different as night and day.

all i would say is that Christ in no uncertain terms said all the law hangs on 'love your neighbor' and 'love the LORD' -- neither of which are even found in Exodus, but are buried in what our modern pharisees call 'the statutes' or whatever, exactly the part they say is 'removed' when they say 'but the decalogue remains' -- which isn't even what they mean when they say that. what they mean is 'sabbath'.

the basis of the law is not the decalogue. that's what God Himself says.
and God Himself says "a new commandment" - that we love one another as He loved. by saying new, He makes the old pass away

 

[post]

whoever loves fulfills the law.

therefore anyone who has love, even if they do not have the letter of the law, fulfills the law by love.
if you had no letter saying 'do this' how does love lead anyone to observe a special day?
would love - only love, without a commandment - in and of itself teach you to cease actions on a certain day, only on that certain day?
does love observe a calendar?

can someone please teach me the thought process, without using 'because the commandment says'?

 

[Curtis]

AGAIN : RUBBISH EASY TALK

the law of Moses is not meant for a righteous person, but for the ungodly, for sinners, for murderers, etc.: because it exists to show the unsaved what sin IS.


1Ti 1:9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a RIGHTEOUS man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for THE UNGODLY and for SINNERS , for UNHOLY and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,


1Ti 1:10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;


Christians are not ungodly anymore, but are the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus, thus we’ve died to the law.


Rom 7:4 Likewise, my brothers, you also have DIED TO THE LAW through the body of Christ, so that you may belong to another, to him who has been raised from the dead, in order that we may bear fruit for God.


Rom 7:5 For while we were living in the flesh, our sinful passions, AROUSED BY THE LAW, were at work in our members to bear fruit for DEATH.


Rom 7:6 But now we are RELEASED from the law, having died to that which held us captive, so that we serve in the NEW way of the SPIRIT and not in the OLD way of the written code.


For Christians only, (not the ungodly) Jesus nailed the law of Moses to His cross and took it out of our way:


Eph 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;


Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;


And the law of Moses was temporary until Christ came:


Gal 3:19 Why then the law? It was added because of transgressions, until the offspring should come to whom the promise had been made (Jesus Christ), and it was put in place through angels by an intermediary.


Gal 3:23 But BEFORE faith came, we were KEPT UNDER THE LAW, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.


Gal 3:24 Wherefore THE LAW was our SCHOOLMASTER to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.


Gal 3:25 But AFTER that faith is come, we are NO LONGER under a schoolmaster.


Christians have the fruit of the spirit, instead of the letter of the law, which is why for us THERE IS NO LAW, of Moses for us:


Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,


Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such THERE IS NO LAW.


Paul comes right out and says, he is not under the law of Moses, but IS under the law of Christ ( the law of love aka the two love commands).


1Co 9:19 For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more.


1Co 9:20 To the Jews I became as a Jew, in order to win Jews. To those under the law I became as one under the law (though NOT being myself UNDER THE LAW) that I might win those under the law.


1Co 9:21 To those outside the law I became as one outside the law (not being outside the law of God but UNDER the law of Christ) that I might win those outside the law.

Any questions?

Shalom

 

[Curtis]

whoever loves fulfills the law.

therefore anyone who has love, even if they do not have the letter of the law, fulfills the law by love.
if you had no letter saying 'do this' how does love lead anyone to observe a special day?
would love - only love, without a commandment - in and of itself teach you to cease actions on a certain day, only on that certain day?
does love observe a calendar?

can someone please teach me the thought process, without using 'because the commandment says'?

That’s indeed why there’s no day to keep in the two love commands- which is really why sabbatarians want to keep the Decalogue so badly.

The sabbath command was never a moral law, but a ceremonial day of rest as a foreshadow of the rest we now have in Jesus 24/7, Matthew 11:28-29.

Oh yeah, and it’s also a foreshadow of the coming millennium reign, called the 7th day, and called Gods rest for His people that remains - according to the sabbath-millennium doctrine of the early church.

Shalom Aleichem

 

[quietthinker]

whoever loves fulfills the law.

therefore anyone who has love, even if they do not have the letter of the law, fulfills the law by love.
if you had no letter saying 'do this' how does love lead anyone to observe a special day?
would love - only love, without a commandment - in and of itself teach you to cease actions on a certain day, only on that certain day?
does love observe a calendar?

can someone please teach me the thought process, without using 'because the commandment says'?

The day of rest comes from Eden not Sinai. Marriage also comes from Eden. Don't bust a marriage by adultery and don't forget to remember the day of rest God put aside from the other days of the week.....what for? ...for refreshment and honour.

When the question arises, why do you keep the Sabbath instituted in Eden? the answer is clear; it is as a remembrance of God as the Creator, the author of all that exists.

Imagine, if we had not forgotten the Sabbath as a people, any theory of evolving from the primordial slime would have fallen on ears.

 

[Curtis]

Uh, no, they don't. The fact that you don't understand how theocracy works doesn't make the rest of us ignorant.

You seem to declare a lot of maxims that aren't found anywhere in Scripture. All sin incurs a death sentence, even if ultimately transferred to Christ at Calvary.

Successful excessive talking requires a good amount of deep thinking. Try it sometime.

The very same body of law given by God to Moses, that demands ALL of it be kept down to the least comma and period, requires the death penalty for those who break the sabbath day command.

There is no separation in the 613 statutes, ordinances and commands into sections such as moral and ceremonial laws - they all had to be kept.

If the law that institutes the command is still in effect, the penalty under the law for breaking the law, would obviously and unequivocally still be in effect.

We know that the traffic laws are still in effect, because the penalties for breaking them are still enforced.

To claim that a law is still in effect, but the penalty for breaking it is not, is ludicrous.

Lev 19:20 And whosoever lieth carnally with a woman, that is a bondmaid, betrothed to an husband, and not at all redeemed, nor freedom given her; she shall be scourged; they shall not be put to death, because she was not free.

Lev 20:2 Again, thou shalt say to the children of Israel, Whosoever he be of the children of Israel, or of the strangers that sojourn in Israel, that giveth any of his seed unto Molech; he shall surely be put to death: the people of the land shall stone him with stones.

Lev 20:10 And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.

And the man that lieth with his father's wife hath uncovered his father's nakedness: both of them shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

Lev 20:12 And if a man lie with his daughter in law, both of them shall surely be put to death: they have wrought confusion; their blood shall be upon them.

Lev 20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

Lev 20:14 And if a man take a wife and her mother, it is wickedness: they shall be burnt with fire, both he and they; that there be no wickedness among you.

Lev 20:15 And if a man lie with a beast, he shall surely be put to death: and ye shall slay the beast.

Lev 20:16 And if a woman approach unto any beast, and lie down thereto, thou shalt kill the woman, and the beast: they shall surely be put to death; k.

Lev 20:22 Ye shall therefore keep all my statutes, and all my judgments, and do them: that the land, whither I bring you to dwell therein, spue you not out.

Lev 24:16 And he that blasphemeth the name of the LORD, he shall surely be put to death, and all the congregation shall certainly stone him: as well the stranger, as he that is born in the land, when he blasphemeth the name of the LORD, shall be put to death.

All these penalties of death are demanded by the law - as Paul warns you, IF YOU KEEP EVEN ONE PART OF THE LAW, YOU MUST KEEP IT ALL.

The death penalty at the hands of those under the law, is an integral part OF THE LAW.

Shalom Aleichem

 

[Curtis]

What makes you think the death penalty for breaking the Fourth Commandment is no longer in effect? I'll explain to you. You think so because the Fourth Commandment is to you only and all about MAN and not about the day The Seventh Day Sabbath OF THE LORD GOD the Lord Jesus' Day of Resurrection-Rest from the dead. There is NOTHING than the Love and Mercy of God you could bring up against the Fourth Commandment of God's Law concerning His Sabbath Day of Rest - NOTHING but the Love of the Creator our Redeemer which you never brought up.
Is that why the only impression your posts awaken is your hatred for the Sabbath of the Lord?

I have news for you, the law requiring the death penalty AT THE HANDS OF THOSE UNDER THE LAW, isn’t just for the sabbath.

But if you claim to be under the law of Moses, you are required to kill all sabbath breakers, by stoning them to death.

Shalom

 

[post]

The day of rest comes from Eden not Sinai. Marriage also comes from Eden. Don't bust a marriage by adultery and don't forget to remember the day of rest God put aside from the other days of the week.....what for? ...for refreshment and honour.

When the question arises, why do you keep the Sabbath instituted in Eden? the answer is clear; it is as a remembrance of God as the Creator, the author of all that exists.

Imagine, if we had not forgotten the Sabbath as a people, any theory of evolving from the primordial slime would have fallen on ears.

Sounds nice but there's no record of anyone observing sabbath until Exodus 16

 

[JunChosen]

Hebrews says this new covenant with the houses of Israel and Judah, is A BETTER COVENANT FOUNDED ON BETTER PROMISES- it’s not an old covenant recycled.

Yes it is the same covenant, that is animals were offered up in the Old Testament for forgiveness of sins which was continual, but in Jesus He offered Himself once for forgiveness of sins which is a better promise. In other words, the Old Testament believers looked forward to Jesus while the New Testament believers looks back to Christ. One Covenant/Gospel.

Scripture says : 1. the first covenant with Israel given on mount Sinai, was faulty, and 2. The new one is better, with better promises.

To your eyes God has faulted but to the believers' eyes God does everything perfectly! And there's the difference between a born again believer as opposed to those who are froward.

To God Be The Glory

 

[JunChosen]

This absolutely refutes your claim that the law has not ended for Christians:

I got news for you! Have you ever read Romans 7 especially verse 25? I know you have but the whole chapter just eluded you. Right?

To God Be The Glory

 

[quietthinker]

The very same body of law given by God to Moses, that demands ALL of it be kept down to the least comma and period, requires the death penalty for those who break the sabbath day command.

There is no separation in the 613 statutes, ordinances and commands into sections such as moral and ceremonial laws - they all had to be kept.

If the law that institutes the command is still in effect, the penalty under the law for breaking the law, would obviously and unequivocally still be in effect.

We know that the traffic laws are still in effect, because the penalties for breaking them are still enforced.

To claim that a law is still in effect, but the penalty for breaking it is not, is ludicrous.

Lev 19:20 And whosoever lieth carnally with a woman, that is a bondmaid, betrothed to an husband, and not at all redeemed, nor freedom given her; she shall be scourged; they shall not be put to death, because she was not free.

Lev 20:2 Again, thou shalt say to the children of Israel, Whosoever he be of the children of Israel, or of the strangers that sojourn in Israel, that giveth any of his seed unto Molech; he shall surely be put to death: the people of the land shall stone him with stones.

Lev 20:10 And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.

And the man that lieth with his father's wife hath uncovered his father's nakedness: both of them shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

Lev 20:12 And if a man lie with his daughter in law, both of them shall surely be put to death: they have wrought confusion; their blood shall be upon them.

Lev 20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

Lev 20:14 And if a man take a wife and her mother, it is wickedness: they shall be burnt with fire, both he and they; that there be no wickedness among you.

Lev 20:15 And if a man lie with a beast, he shall surely be put to death: and ye shall slay the beast.

Lev 20:16 And if a woman approach unto any beast, and lie down thereto, thou shalt kill the woman, and the beast: they shall surely be put to death; k.

Lev 20:22 Ye shall therefore keep all my statutes, and all my judgments, and do them: that the land, whither I bring you to dwell therein, spue you not out.

Lev 24:16 And he that blasphemeth the name of the LORD, he shall surely be put to death, and all the congregation shall certainly stone him: as well the stranger, as he that is born in the land, when he blasphemeth the name of the LORD, shall be put to death.

All these penalties of death are demanded by the law - as Paul warns you, IF YOU KEEP EVEN ONE PART OF THE LAW, YOU MUST KEEP IT ALL.

The death penalty at the hands of those under the law, is an integral part OF THE LAW.

Shalom Aleichem

I suppose now that you are not under the law as you say, you can lie with a beast and not be put to death.
Ohh dear, at least you cannot say you are ignorant of the law.

 

[quietthinker]

Sounds nice but there's no record of anyone observing sabbath until Exodus 16

does there need to be?

 

[Curtis]

I suppose now that you are not under the law as you say, you can lie with a beast and not be put to death.
Ohh dear, at least you cannot say you are ignorant of the law.

That law was not meant for the righteous, per Paul, but for the ungodly and murderers, etc,

1Ti 1:9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,

1Ti 1:10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;

Yes, Christians are righteous, so the law was not meant for us - it’s still in effect but for the unconverted, not for the righteous.

Php 3:9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

Christians have the Holy Spirit indwelling them, so are not under an external law any longer.
Per Paul again, if you be led of the spirit, you are not under the law.

Gal 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

You just don’t seem to get that, yet.

We have died to the law, the law was temporary until faith and grace came, thus we are not under the law but under grace, and, most importantly - Paul warns that those that put themselves back under the law, make Christ of no effect unto them, and they have fallen from grace.

Gal 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

Bottom line: a spirit filled Christian doesn’t need an external law to command them not to engage in beastiality under the threat of death - they are led by the indwelling spirit of the living God.

Shalom Aleichem

 

[Curtis]

does there need to be?

The SDA claim is that the sabbath was observed by man since the seventh day of creation - despite the fact that the term SABBATH is found nowhere in Genesis, and despite no mention that Abraham or anyone else kept the seventh day of rest in that bible book, and despite the fact that God told Israel after their Exodus from Egypt, that He gave it to them, Israel, as a remembrance of Him delivering them from slavery, and gave it to them, Israel, as a covenant sign.

Mysteriously, the term sabbath, and sabbath day command - completely missing in Genesis - suddenly appears for the first time, when Moses gives Israel the law, and the ten commands.

We need detective Colombo to solve the case of the missing seventh day sabbath command, and the term ‘sabbath’ from the entire book of Genesis.

Shalom Aleichem

 

[Curtis]

Yes it is the same covenant, that is animals were offered up in the Old Testament for forgiveness of sins which was continual, but in Jesus He offered Himself once for forgiveness of sins which is a better promise. In other words, the Old Testament believers looked forward to Jesus while the New Testament believers looks back to Christ. One Covenant/Gospel.



To your eyes God has faulted but to the believers' eyes God does everything perfectly! And there's the difference between a born again believer as opposed to those who are froward.

To God Be The Glory

To God’s eyes, the first covenant with Israel, given on mount Sinai, was faulty.

Words have meaning - when scripture says, if the old covenant had been FAULTLESS, there would be no need for a new covenant, those words mean the old one was FAULTY.

Heb 8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

Heb 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.

As I keep saying, it was deliberately faulty, harsh, burdensome, and deadly- the ministry of death.

Shalom

 

[quietthinker]

That law was not meant for the righteous, per Paul, but for the ungodly and murderers, etc,

and beast sleepers and adulterers and liars and the covetous and Sabbath breakers etc....is there anybody that is missed?