What is Legalism?

[Grailhunter]

Not as a nation, but believing Jews are in fact in the New Covenant. Paul says he is proof of that.

Anyone that believes in the new covenant. Practicing Jews are not.

 

[Grailhunter]

If you want to be justified by the law, that is when you must keep the entire law to the letter.

No that is not what the Bible says....read it again.

Some laws do not apply to everybody. Some laws are already satisfied and do not require further fulfillment. Some laws are 'kept' in regard to the spiritual intention that the literal law pointed to and finds satisfaction in that way. And there are laws that remain as written for the people of God to keep.

Those that keep some laws are in violation of all the Laws.

 

[Grailhunter]

Only if you are keeping the law for justification.

No only if you receive circumcision.

Do you want me to recopy all the scriptures of Paul telling you are not under the Law and why....just say the word.
The Bible will tell you that you cannot subdivide the law. You obey all of them or none of them.

 

[farouk]

I suspect your definition of legalism springs from the traditional church's resistance to getting tattoos, right? Telling someone it's not allowed to get a tattoo is not legalism. Saying you have to keep the command to not get a tattoo in order to earn justification is legalism.

I'm not into law-keeping, period. I know the Reformed tradition - which tends not to distinguish between the church and Israel - tends to be.

 

[CharismaticLady]

What's that supposed to mean?
It's also said, some people are so open minded that their brains fall out.

I means that the doctrines of demons can be so enticing people hold on to them for dear life.

 

[Instant]

The term is used often. But what exactly is it according to Scripture?

We are lawful and law-abiding citizens of the commonwealth of Israel. We keep God's law and commandments by faith of salvation.

In 2 Cor 3, When Scripture says the 'letter kills', it was speaking of the law and of the Old Covenant itself, pertaining to that which was written upon stone tables.

These tables were called the ministry of condemnation and death and have been done away, and the new testament is the ministry of the Spirit and righteousness.

The weakness of the law was the flesh in that it could not justify anyone, only condemn that that transgressed. It could not minister faith and life, but only death and condemnation to them that did not obey.

It was called the law of carnal commandment (Heb 7:16), in that it only could command outward obedience, not inward faith, but the new covenant is made with the power of an endless life.

And so inward faith and Spirit of life is the power of God that begins salvation and outward obedience to His law and commandments.

Therefore, 'legalism' would be holding to the law outwardly only, without inward faith, seeking to be justified by the outward works of the law only.

Legalism is therefore without faith nor Spirit nor life, but only outward obedience. It is a hard and cold way to exist.

It's good to obey but far better to believe, love, and obey: O how love I thy law! it is my meditation all the day. (Psalms 119)

And since legalism is keeping there works of the law with faith, then it will always end in failure of transgression; therefore, the true legalist is without mercy, neither for himself nor for others, and they are forever looking for transgression to condemn.

And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage. (Gal 2)

But if ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless. (Matthew 12)

Obeying the letter only brings certain condemnation and death: walking after the flesh.

Walking after the Spirit is life fulfilling the righteousness of God, with blessing in this life and forever.

Legalism or legalistic are not Bible terms, so I do not really like to speculate on what it would be Biblically. When most in the church today call someone a legalist, it is because they dare to call something they or someone they know sinful. I mean, don't they know we are not under the law anymore but grace? Don't they know we are not to judge people? The whole anti-legalism doctrine is false.

That being said, there was a legitimate controversy that took place in the early church concerning certain aspects of the Law of Moses, and if it pertained to the gentile converts. The laws that were in question were over things like circumcision and the need to abstain from certain foods. These were laws that were given to Israel to show a distinction between them and the unclean and idol worshipping gentile nations around them. It was determined that gentile believers did not have to do those things, and with good reason. What was once unclean, God had now cleansed by the blood of Jesus Christ, and gentiles were included in the plan of salvation. There is no longer a distinction between Jew and Gentile, so you naturally would not observe laws of separation.

None of this meant that we could be lawless. You have several instances where Paul says that sinful behavior will keep us from having an inheritance in the Kingdom of God. This included all kinds of things like sexual immorality, murder, theft, etc. Even after the early church met, they said there were certain necessary things the Gentiles had to abstain from, but that is completely ignored by the anti-legalism crowd. Jesus did not rebuke the Scribes and Pharisees for being legalists, as people say. He said they were in Moses' seat. What he came against them for was hypocrisy, doing things to be praised by men, and refusing to enter into the Kingdom because of unbelief, and leading others into the ditch with them. All anyone has to do to see this is read the list of woes Jesus gives to the Scribes and Pharisees. The church today is teaching a lot of things that are not Biblical, and all anyone needs to do is take the time to carefully search it out in the scriptures.

 

[prism]

I means that the doctrines of demons can be so enticing, people hold on to them for dear life.

Here is your full quote...

"I know you're very touchy, and people have to walk on eggshells around you, so put me on ignore, and I'll do the same for you. Besides, you are very closed minded; not open AT ALL.
I won't be seeing anything more from you. You are now on ignore."

Interesting way to express yourself.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

The Mosaic Law does not adjust for cultures or time periods.

Cultures change and make laws not applicable to a certain culture simply because that culture doesn't practice what a certain law governs.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

And again the Mosaic Laws are all or nothing...no options.

Only if you are seeking to be justified by the law.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

No only if you receive circumcision.

...for justification.
Why is this so hard for you to grasp?

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Those that keep some laws are in violation of all the Laws.

You fail to understand many laws are already kept for us and don't have to be literally kept by us. James knew this. So we know he was not saying you have to keep every single letter of the law to be considered a law keeper. You have to keep whatever remains to be kept of the law to be considered a law keeper.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

I'm not into law-keeping, period. I know the Reformed tradition - which tends not to distinguish between the church and Israel - tends to be.

Surely you are into 'do not murder', 'do not steal', 'do not bear false witness', etc., right?

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Anyone that believes in the new covenant. Practicing Jews are not.

Believing Jews are. So why do you say Jews are not in the New Covenant?

 

[Grailhunter]

Cultures change and make laws not applicable to a certain culture simply because that culture doesn't practice what a certain law governs.

With civil laws that is very true.
But the Mosaic Law does not change.
Matthew 5:18-20
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

 

[Grailhunter]

Only if you are seeking to be justified by the law.

Find that scripture.

 

[Grailhunter]

...for justification.
Why is this so hard for you to grasp?

Find the scriptures for options and or alternatives

 

[Grailhunter]

You fail to understand many laws are already kept for us and don't have to be literally kept by us. James knew this. So we know he was not saying you have to keep every single letter of the law to be considered a law keeper. You have to keep whatever remains to be kept of the law to be considered a law keeper.

You are making up the rules as you go.
You will not find a scripture in the Bible...old or new testament that allow you to observe some of the Laws.

 

[Grailhunter]

Believing Jews are. So why do you say Jews are not in the New Covenant?

I have already made this clear. If you are practicing Judaism, you are not in the New Covenant.

 

[Brakelite]

I have already made this clear. If you are practicing Judaism, you are not in the New Covenant.

KJV Matthew 22:36-40
36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Does the practise of Judaism include loving God and neighbor? And if so, why does that not exclude anyone from partaking of the new covenant? Notice that I'm not suggesting you would disagree that those loving God and neighbor are included in the new covenant. Just interested in how you reconcile that seeming contradiction.

 

[Grailhunter]

KJV Matthew 22:36-40
36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Does the practise of Judaism include loving God and neighbor? And if so, why does that not exclude anyone from partaking of the new covenant? Notice that I'm not suggesting you would disagree that those loving God and neighbor are included in the new covenant. Just interested in how you reconcile that seeming contradiction.

The answer to that question is in the meaning of the statement....On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
It does not mean cancels the law and prophets....It is a loose statement that is meant to encompass the law. Not that it is referencing the color of the cattle in the field...etc.