Where are the 5...

[amadeus]

they also don’t know what salvation or eternal life is
Or what is and what is not scripture

Again you are using a pronoun with no definite antecedent. Who would you include in that "they"?

Does a person need to know what salvation and/or eternal Life is in order to receive it? I do not believe so. What God is looking for is some who returns His Love without requiring a lot of knowledge before giving it. Does God love only those who understand Him and obey Him?

Did Jesus not love Judas even though he knew the man was betraying him?

 

[amadeus]

Again you have answers with which you may be content, but why should anyone believe your explanation? You wrote the following words:
"valid faithful bishops the successors of the apostles"

Who determines validity but God Himself? How does a person know he is not hearing the voice of a stranger with regard to who is a bishop or an apostle? I know my own answers which I believe are from God and perhaps you know yours. Why should another person believe either one of us?

they have the HS Jn 26:13

Sorry Jn 16:13

Does anyone today have the Holy Spirit? If, yes, why would such a person need to follow any man instead of simply following God?

 

[rockytopva]

And I, brethren, when I came to you, came not with excellency of speech or of wisdom, declaring unto you the testimony of God. For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified. - 1 Corinthians 2:1-2

For all those things hath mine hand made, and all those things have been, saith the Lord: but to this man will I look, even to him that is poor and of a contrite spirit, and trembleth at my word. - Isaiah 66:2

A good hearted man who knows little more than Christ and him crucified is in much better shape than a man well knowledged in the word of God but evil hearted. Especially when they live the life of fornication and sexual assualtation.

 

[Taken]

not those things are bad
It’s those things alone
Faith alone

please explain Matt 5 and rev 2:

why does it not say blessed are those who believe
And I know thy works! Not Thy faith

A works of a man...
That DO NOT GLORIFY GOD...are Burned.
Works of a man...
That DO Glorify God...are Rewarded.

A gentile that is NOT Converted, can NOT DO Works "THAT Glorify God.

And when you are sitting in front of the tv ...
Or swimming in a pool, or mowing the Lawn....you think you are doing works Glorifying to God?
Does DOING any of those things have ANYTHING to do with your Faith?

 

[theefaith]

Does anyone today have the Holy Spirit? If, yes, why would such a person need to follow any man instead of simply following God?

Union
God
Christ
Holy Spirit
Peter and His successors
Apostles and their successors
The faithful

 

[theefaith]

A works of a man...
That DO NOT GLORIFY GOD...are Burned.
Works of a man...
That DO Glorify God...are Rewarded.

A gentile that is NOT Converted, can NOT DO Works "THAT Glorify God.

And when you are sitting in front of the tv ...
Or swimming in a pool, or mowing the Lawn....you think you are doing works Glorifying to God?
Does DOING any of those things have ANYTHING to do with your Faith?

whatever you do do for the glory of God

 

[amadeus]

Union
God
Christ
Holy Spirit
Peter and His successors
Apostles and their successors
The faithful

Herein is a part of your trouble as I see it. Your faith is in a set of rules established by men and you cannot hear or understand the possibility of anything else. Perhaps God will hear you on that but it cannot be so for me.
Give God the glory!

 

[theefaith]

Herein is a part of your trouble as I see it. Your faith is in a set of rules established by men and you cannot hear or understand the possibility of anything else. Perhaps God will hear you on that but it cannot be so for me.
Give God the glory!

christ founded the church and it is his teaching
Eph 4:5 Jude 1:3
There is rule of faith
Obedience of faith
It’s a covenant not a bible study

 

[amadeus]

christ founded the church and it is his teaching
Eph 4:5 Jude 1:3
There is rule of faith
Obedience of faith
It’s a covenant not a bible study

The truth comes to man as he follows and is led by the Holy Spirit. Individuals such as me and you and the other guy, be we supporters of your sect or the Vatican II Catholic group or any one of the Protestant groups or some other group rend up with a mixture whenever they quench the Holy Spirit of God instead of surrendering and following.

The solution lies with God alone. Alone we can do nothing. Help us dear Lord! The resulting mixtures are theirs/ours in place of the pure unadulterated Word of God:

"...God
Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life." II Cor 3:5-6

 

[theefaith]

The truth comes to man as he follows and is led by the Holy Spirit. Individuals such as me and you and the other guy, be we supporters of your sect or the Vatican II Catholic group or any one of the Protestant groups or some other group rend up with a mixture whenever they quench the Holy Spirit of God instead of surrendering and following.

The solution lies with God alone. Alone we can do nothing. Help us dear Lord! The resulting mixtures are theirs/ours in place of the pure unadulterated Word of God:

"...God
Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life." II Cor 3:5-6

we must be taught!

Must be taught by the holy church by the apostles! Matt 28:19-20 Lk 1:4 Acts 2:42

you can start by reading this


MORTALIUM ANIMOS


ENCYCLICAL OF POPE PIUS XI
ON RELIGIOUS UNITY
TO OUR VENERABLE BRETHREN THE PATRIARCHS, PRIMATES,
ARCHBISHOPS, BISHOPS, AND OTHER LOCAL ORDINARIES
IN PEACE AND COMMUNION WITH THE APOSTOLIC SEE.

 

[rockytopva]

I believe the churches were birthed in the ages. As I believe all these churches are Christian churches I do not mind to visit or read into them. I also believe that as these churches are birthed in ages, that changes could occur within a movement. A Baptist church, for example, can be Sardisean, Philadelphian, or Laodicean, depending on the leadership. As Christ could see into the future so he gave the last word on what he would see as seven churches.

The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches. Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write; These things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks; - Revelation 1:20 - Revelation 2:1

Candlesticks - Seven church congregations
Stars - Individuals within the congregations, all held in the right hand of Christ
Seals - The seven seals sealed each congregation within the lambs book of life

And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon. - Revelation 5:4

Ephesus - Messianic
Smyna - Martyr - Foxes book of martyrs has the persecutions as ten
Pregamos - Orthodox - Pergos is a tower, needed in the dark ages
Thyatira - Catholic - Took form with Constantine
Sardis - Protestant - Took form with Martin Luther
Philadelphia - Revived - Non-Violent with men like John Bunyan.
Laodicean - Mainly independent churches birthed post 1900

I believe the Catholic Church a Christian church born in Thyatirean times and the spirit of Jezebel is to control and to dominate. To tell people they must be Thyatirean is something a spirit of Jezebel would do. Are Catholics Christian? Yes! Do they seek control and domination? Sometimes very much so!

 

[theefaith]

I believe the churches were birthed in the ages. As I believe all these churches are Christian churches I do not mind to visit or read into them. I also believe that as these churches are birthed in ages, that changes could occur within a movement. A Baptist church, for example, can be Sardisean, Philadelphian, or Laodicean, depending on the leadership. As Christ could see into the future so he gave the last word on what he would see as seven churches.

The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches. Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write; These things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks; - Revelation 1:20 - Revelation 2:1

Candlesticks - Seven church congregations
Stars - Individuals within the congregations, all held in the right hand of Christ
Seals - The seven seals sealed each congregation within the lambs book of life

And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon. - Revelation 5:4

Ephesus - Messianic
Smyna - Martyr - Foxes book of martyrs has the persecutions as ten
Pregamos - Orthodox - Pergos is a tower, needed in the dark ages
Thyatira - Catholic - Took form with Constantine
Sardis - Protestant - Took form with Martin Luther
Philadelphia - Revived - Non-Violent with men like John Bunyan.
Laodicean - Mainly independent churches birthed post 1900

I believe the Catholic Church a Christian church born in Thyatirean times and the spirit of Jezebel is to control and to dominate. To tell people they must be Thyatirean is something a spirit of Jezebel would do. Are Catholics Christian? Yes! Do they seek control and domination? Sometimes very much so!

then explain Jn 10:16

 

[rockytopva]

then explain Jn 10:16

And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd. - John 10:16

Yes… One fold… When we are in heaven. While on earth we are presented with issues that divide us.

 

[theefaith]

And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd. - John 10:16

Yes… One fold… When we are in heaven. While on earth we are presented with issues that divide us.

the unity of the church started with Pentecost

 

[rockytopva]

the unity of the church started with Pentecost

And there are people in my church who still speak in tongues! How about yours?

 

[Brakelite]

Christ is God
But He submitted to the will of the father
Not as I will but as thou wills

In the wilderness. How did Christ resist temptation?

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Christ alone
Faith alone
Scripture alone
Etc.

They aren't alone, they are in harmony. The whole Bible is about Jesus. Some claim He is on every page. He is the Word. He is Love and He is the Creator, the Author of our Faith, which is a gift. Faith is not alone. Grace encompasses all God's gifts. Everything that is good comes from God. Faith is not alone, it consists of knowledge, love, a relationship, uniquely wrapped up your own individual life.
Jesus is not alone, we have the Father and the Holy Spirit. The God's unmerited favor (grace), which consists of all that is good starts with a seed that is planted in your heart and it grows to produce fruit, the fruit of the Spirit. Notice the capital S? It is fruit that pridhces work - all from God. God gets the credit.
Not everyone's life is exactly the same. Each individual has a different level of Faith, composed if a different amount of knowledge, a different perspective and understanding. Each of us comes from a different frame of reference, different experiences. The Holy Spirit works in our lives in unique ways designed and orchestrated differently for each individual. Our testimonies are all different. You have different parents and different life experiences that God used to save you. They are different then mine. So I have faith that consists of my knowledge, my perspective, my understanding and my relationship with Jesus. Don't attack It, leave it alone and don't be so narrow minded to think that God doesn't have all of us in His hands, believing in Christ together, not alone. The Body is composed of billions of parts, us. The hand does not lift a hammer to smash the foot. You talk about love, where is in all this? Where is your brotherly love? Constantly picking fights attacking your own body.
Let it be ... It is as if you are in denial that God can do a work in anyone unless they are Catholic.
He is working in your life and in mine. Let it be.
You are unique, different from anyone on earth, yet you are part of the Body of Christ. You have a specific function/purpose. You seem to think it is to attack other parts of the Body, disown, disassociate Christians to the level of hatred. Do you really think that is a purpose God gave you to relentlessness war against Christians who all have a different understanding of faith?
Let it be. Go do some good, love one another. Don't wake up everyday motivated by hatred towards Protestants. "How many ways can I find to defeat them, change their minds ... how many scriptures can I use against them ... I am winning ... for Christ!" No you're not.

 

[amadeus]

we must be taught!

Yes, but who is to be our teacher?

"But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you." John 14:26

Must be taught by the holy church by the apostles! Matt 28:19-20 Lk 1:4 Acts 2:42

"Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen." Matt 28:19-20

You my friend are presuming that the pronoun, "ye" is speaking only to those apostles physically present to hear Jesus' words with the natural ears. Are we not to read the Bible ourselves and then as we read it understand that he is speaking to you and me and any person who reads what is written to them? We are included in the "ye"!

you can start by reading this


MORTALIUM ANIMOS


ENCYCLICAL OF POPE PIUS XI
ON RELIGIOUS UNITY
TO OUR VENERABLE BRETHREN THE PATRIARCHS, PRIMATES,
ARCHBISHOPS, BISHOPS, AND OTHER LOCAL ORDINARIES
IN PEACE AND COMMUNION WITH THE APOSTOLIC SEE.

The problem with that if of course is that first I must agree or believe that that Pope, that is Pope Pius XI, is an apostle speaking God's Word and that I must listen to and obey his words instead of what I hear in my heart from the Holy Ghost. If your advice is good, why is it then that beginning with John XXIII we are no longer to listen to the Popes sitting in the Vatican? You say it and perhaps you believe it, but without the direction of the Holy Ghost as per the verse I quoted above [John 14:26] why should I or anyone decide to go the way that you have gone and are going? Have all faithful Catholics read with understanding that encyclical of Pius XI? Why is there now your camp and the camp of what you call the Vatican II sect, the latter being apostate? What is the difference between that split and the one which started a few hundred years ago with Martin Luther or with the split between those in Rome and those in Constantinople several hundred years prior to Luther?

Why pay more attention the encyclical of Pius XI than to Pope John XXIII or today's Pope Francis? Because you say so? I do say something different: Why not simply listen to what Jesus is saying to his sheep via the Holy Ghost?

"But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep.
To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out.
And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice." John 10:2-4

 

[theefaith]

And there are people in my church who still speak in tongues! How about yours?

Foreign languages? Yes

 

[theefaith]

But charismatic practices are a condemned heresy