The Restrainer. And the Restrained.

[Brakelite]

LOL. I can't understand that. You're so cute!

Awww CL...you can say that to me any day.

Hey. Some decorum please. There's children watching.

@Heart 2 Soul !!!!!!

 

[Brakelite]

it is like saying the fox is not already within the chicken coop devouring and having a feast. while hearing a great commotion of slaughter, all the while standing by under the delusion there is no fox. No fox to be concerned over because the man will come remove the chickens before the fox arrives.


Luke 13:31-35 The same day there came certain of the Pharisees, saying unto him, Get thee out, and depart hence: for Herod will kill thee. [32] And he said unto them, Go ye, and tell that fox, Behold, I cast out devils, and I do cures to day and to morrow, and the third day I shall be perfected. [33] Nevertheless I must walk to day, and to morrow, and the day following: for it cannot be that a prophet perish out of Jerusalem. [34] O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee; how often would I have gathered thy children together, as a hen doth gather her brood under her wings, and ye would not! [35] Behold, your house is left unto you desolate: and verily I say unto you, Ye shall not see me, until the time come when ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

Totally with you on this ViJ. The concept of idea that God rescues His people from danger by completely removing them from the scene is nowhere to be found in scripture. We may be moved to a safe place, such as Noah and Lot, and Israel in Goshen, but they were all witnesses to God's justice and execution thereof. And David says in the psalms,
KJV Psalms 91:8-11
8 Only with thine eyes shalt thou behold and see the reward of the wicked.
9 Because thou hast made the LORD, which is my refuge, even the most High, thy habitation;
10 There shall no evil befall thee, neither shall any plague come nigh thy dwelling.
11 For he shall give his angels charge over thee, to keep thee in all thy ways.

 

[quietthinker]

Hey. Some decorum please. There's children watching.

@Heart 2 Soul !!!!!!

Well, this is how I see it.....when someone tells me they love me, irrespective of how they say it.....I lap it up.
I've never been in a situation where I've been told too often.

I'll share something....For most of my life I have lived with a poor self image, in fact I have believed I was ugly. When that dark cloud began rolling off, (it didn't happen overnight) when it began to dawn on me that I had believed a lie and that behemoth finally got subdued through understanding that God did not value his own life over mine something dramatically shifted and I have learned to love myself and others and let others love me. I have learned to see myself and others through the eyes of a self sacrificing God ....and oddly, I often find myself in tears when the power, the value of this captures me.

 

[Brakelite]

Well, this is how I see it.....when someone tells me they love me, irrespective of how they say it.....I lap it up.
I've never been in a situation where I've been told too often.

I'll share something....For most of my life I have lived with a poor self image, in fact I have believed I was ugly. When that dark cloud began rolling off, (it didn't happen overnight) when it began to dawn on me that I had believed a lie and that behemoth finally got subdued through understanding that God did not value his own life over mine something dramatically shifted and I have learned to love myself and others and let others love me. I have learned to see myself and others through the eyes of a self sacrificing God ....and oddly, I often find myself in tears when the power, the value of this captures me.

Bro, can fully empathize with that. I have issues accepting compliments. But over this conversation here, I'm jus pulling legs. I'm all for folks enjoying one anothers company. Heck. I'm enjoying watching lol.

 

[quietthinker]

Bro, can fully empathize with that. I have issues accepting compliments. But over this conversation here, I'm jus pulling legs. I'm all for folks enjoying one anothers company. Heck. I'm enjoying watching lol.

yes, I understood you were just pulling legs. I thought I'd use the opportunity to touch on some of my personal stuff.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Totally with you on this ViJ. The concept of idea that God rescues His people from danger by completely removing them from the scene is nowhere to be found in scripture. We may be moved to a safe place, such as Noah and Lot, and Israel in Goshen, but they were all witnesses to God's justice and execution thereof. And David says in the psalms,
KJV Psalms 91:8-11
8 Only with thine eyes shalt thou behold and see the reward of the wicked.
9 Because thou hast made the LORD, which is my refuge, even the most High, thy habitation;
10 There shall no evil befall thee, neither shall any plague come nigh thy dwelling.
11 For he shall give his angels charge over thee, to keep thee in all thy ways.

To be honest, I’m still struggling with your OP. Not because I don’t agree with what was said of the pagan Rome references (if I understood correctly), but the exclusion of so much making one the target and one only. I get this is your thread to discuss the forth but there is also reference to what restrains. You say pagan Rome (again maybe I’ve misunderstood) is what God restrains, but is pagan Rome not darkness? Consider the brightness of His coming and how fire reveals what work it be of. The work therein Revealed by fire…consider the hay and the stubble in reference to that son of perdition, that man of sin whom the Lords consumes with the brightness of His coming, with the Spirit of His mouth. To make it only pagan Rome is (Imo) to neglect we all have hay and stubble to be burned. What reveals the hay and stubble unto the praise …that every man might have praise…unto the Lord? Is that man of sin hay and stubble? Proverbs 27:21-25 As the fining pot for silver, and the furnace for gold; so is a man to his praise. [22] Though thou shouldest bray a fool in a mortar among wheat with a pestle, yet will not his foolishness depart from him. [23] Be thou diligent to know the state of thy flocks, and look well to thy herds. [24] For riches are not for ever: and doth the crown endure to every generation? [25] The hay appeareth, and the tender grass sheweth itself, and herbs of the mountains are gathered.

Be thou diligent to know the state of thy flocks, and look well to thy herds. Philippians 2:19-21 But I trust in the Lord Jesus to send Timotheus (know the state of the flocks, look well to they herbs and the things that tend to Life) shortly unto you, that I also may be of good comfort, when I know your state. [20] For I have no man likeminded, who will naturally care for your state. [21] For all seek their own (hay and stubble), and not the things which are Jesus Christ's.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Considering the OP mention of Daniel 7:8-14 I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots:
who plucks up by the roots? First) we are instructed it requires faith to pluck up and to say “be thou planted in the sea” or to remove a mountain. Luke 17:5-6 And the apostles said unto the Lord, Increase our faith. [6] And the Lord said, If ye had faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye might say unto this sycamine tree, Be thou plucked up by the root, and be thou planted in the sea; and it should obey you.

and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things. 9] I beheld till the thrones were cast down,

Who casts down thrones? Colossians 1:13-18 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son: [14] In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins: [15] Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: [16] For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: [17] And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. [18] And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire. [10] A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened. [11] I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.

When was the body of sins of the flesh given to the flame?
Colossians 2:11-15 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: [12] Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead. [13] And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; [14] Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; [15] And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

[12] As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time.
[13] I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him. [14] And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.

When did He receive a kingdom that shall not be destroyed? he ascended and entered into a cloud and the cloud received Him out of their sight…then one like the Son of man comes before the ancient one in a cloud of glory before the throne and He is (The risen Christ) given dominion, a kingdom that shall not be destroyed…

when do the saints of the most High receive a kingdom? Daniel 7:18 But the saints of the most High shall take (receive)the kingdom, and possess the kingdom for ever, even for ever and ever.


Daniel 7:21-22 I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them; [22] Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom.

Matthew 16:17-19 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-jona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. [18] And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. [19] And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Matthew 16:21 From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day.

Again, when do the saints of the most High receive and possess the kingdom Hebrews 12:28-29 Wherefore we receiving a kingdom (from who?) which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear: [29] For our God is a consuming fire.

 

[Oseas]

This is exactly what Paul was saying to those bishops at Miletus when he said, of your own selves shall men arise speaking perverse things to draw away disciples to them... Acts 20:30. Which links Paul's warnings of the man of sin... Son of perdition... Mystery of iniquity... Little horn Daniel 7... First composite beast Revelation 13... Antichrist.

Antichrist - the FIFTH and last satanic kingdom

DANIEL 2:V.40-45

40 And the fourth kingdom shall be strong as iron: forasmuch as iron breaketh in pieces and subdueth all things: and as iron that breaketh all these, shall it break in pieces and bruise.

41 And whereas thou sawest the feet and toes (10 TOES), part of potters' clay (the clay is Israel-theJews-Isaiah 64:v.8), and part of iron(the Gentile nations), the kingdom shall be divided; but there shall be in it of the strength of the iron, forasmuch as thou sawest the iron mixed with miry clay.

42 And as the toes (10 toes) of the feet were part of iron, and part of clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong, and partly broken.

43 And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay. - two distincts seed -


The KINGDOM of GOD - the Eternal Kingdom

44 And in the days of these kings shall the GOD of heaven set up a Kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the Kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.

45 Forasmuch as thou sawest that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it brake in pieces the iron, the brass, the clay, the silver, and the gold;

The Testimony of Daniel before King Nebuchadnezzar

The great GOD hath made known to the king what shall come to pass hereafter: and the dream is certain, and the interpretation thereof sure.


Revelation 11:v.15-18

15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,

17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.

18 And the nations were (will be) angry, and GOD's wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be Judged, and that GOD should give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear His name, small and great; and should destroy them which destroy the earth.

In Christ JESUS, KING of kings (kings made by Him) and LORD of lords

Amen


P.S.

Revelation 2:v.25-29
25 But that which ye have already hold fast till I come.

26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.

28 And I will give him the morning star.

29 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.



.

 

[Truth7t7]

Considering the OP mention of Daniel 7:8-14 I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots:
who plucks up by the roots? First) we are instructed it requires faith to pluck up and to say “be thou planted in the sea” or to remove a mountain. Luke 17:5-6 And the apostles said unto the Lord, Increase our faith. [6] And the Lord said, If ye had faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye might say unto this sycamine tree, Be thou plucked up by the root, and be thou planted in the sea; and it should obey you.

and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things. 9] I beheld till the thrones were cast down,

Who casts down thrones? Colossians 1:13-18 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son: [14] In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins: [15] Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: [16] For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: [17] And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. [18] And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire. [10] A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened. [11] I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.

When was the body of sins of the flesh given to the flame?
Colossians 2:11-15 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: [12] Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead. [13] And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; [14] Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; [15] And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

[12] As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time.
[13] I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him. [14] And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.

When did He receive a kingdom that shall not be destroyed? he ascended and entered into a cloud and the cloud received Him out of their sight…then one like the Son of man comes before the ancient one in a cloud of glory before the throne and He is (The risen Christ) given dominion, a kingdom that shall not be destroyed…

when do the saints of the most High receive a kingdom? Daniel 7:18 But the saints of the most High shall take (receive)the kingdom, and possess the kingdom for ever, even for ever and ever.


Daniel 7:21-22 I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them; [22] Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom.

Matthew 16:17-19 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-jona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. [18] And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. [19] And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Matthew 16:21 From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day.

Again, when do the saints of the most High receive and possess the kingdom Hebrews 12:28-29 Wherefore we receiving a kingdom (from who?) which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear: [29] For our God is a consuming fire.

New Jerusalem Is The Eternal Kingdom That Won't Be Moved

Revelation 21:1-5KJV
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

New Jerusalem Is The Eternal Kingdom That Won't Be Moved

Revelation 21:1-5KJV
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

agree. Thank you. See…I thought this said “wherefore having received a kingdom” which I thought honestly was in reference to having received The Spirit of God. As in already having received a Kingdom which cannot be moved. Hebrews 12:28-29 Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear: [29] For our God is a consuming fire.

But then upon looking it up, the above is “to receive” as in a kingdom to come…point is past, present, or yet to come confuses me. For example Luke 18:17 Lexicon: "Truly I say to you, whoever does not receive the kingdom of God like a child will not enter it at all."

 

[Oseas]

1 Corinthians 15:v.24-28

24 The END cometh, when he shall have delivered up the Kingdom to GOD, even the Father; when he shall have PUT DOWN ALL RULE and ALL AUTHORITY and power.

25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.

26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.

28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.


The KINGDOM of GOD - the Eternal Kingdom

DANIEL 2:v.44-45

44 And in the days of these kings shall the GOD of heaven set up a Kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the Kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.

45 Forasmuch as thou sawest that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it brake in pieces the iron, the brass, the clay, the silver, and the gold;

The Testimony of Daniel before King Nebuchadnezzar

The great GOD hath made known to the king what shall come to pass hereafter: and the dream is certain, and the interpretation thereof sure.


Revelation 11:v.15-18

15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,

17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.

18 And the nations were (will be) angry, and GOD's wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be Judged, and that GOD should give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear His name, small and great; and should destroy them which destroy the earth.

In Christ JESUS, KING of kings (kings made by Him) and LORD of lords

Amen


P.S.

Revelation 2:v.25-29
25 But that which ye have already hold fast till I come.

26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.

28 And I will give him the morning star.

29 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Totally with you on this ViJ. The concept of idea that God rescues His people from danger by completely removing them from the scene is nowhere to be found in scripture. We may be moved to a safe place, such as Noah and Lot, and Israel in Goshen, but they were all witnesses to God's justice and execution thereof. And David says in the psalms,
KJV Psalms 91:8-11
8 Only with thine eyes shalt thou behold and see the reward of the wicked.
9 Because thou hast made the LORD, which is my refuge, even the most High, thy habitation;
10 There shall no evil befall thee, neither shall any plague come nigh thy dwelling.
11 For he shall give his angels charge over thee, to keep thee in all thy ways.

we do agree on this. Consider when He said He provided an escape that you may be able; to bear it, to endure. And also why (Imo) the idea that God whisks His church out of here neglects (again just an opinion) that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.

Revelation 3:7-12 And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write; These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth; [8] I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name. [9] Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee. [10] Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth. [11] Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown. [12] Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

If I’m not mistaken the “I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation” is used to support not being present for, but “blessed is the man that endures temptation: for when he is tried, (Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth). he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord has promised to them that love him. James 1:12-18 Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him. [13] Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man: [14] But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. [15] Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death. [16] Do not err, my beloved brethren. [17] Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning. [18] Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.

point is “I will keep thee” could also be “blessed is the man that endures temptation” …that we should be a kind of firstfruits of His creatures. Not “I will keep thee” turned into remove you from temptation; but carry you through that you may endure, able to bear it, when tried (that we should be firstfruits of His creatures, Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth,)

“you will have need of patience” “let patience Have her perfect work”; Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation,

 

[Brakelite]

@VictoryinJesus hi. I think your missing the point of the thread. Yes, there are some spiritual parallels in all historical narratives. But I think it takes away a lot of relevance to the actual factual history and it's importance to prophecy if we make those spiritual parallels the focus of conversation. The point of prophecy was to reveal God's control over the nations, that when we look back and see how accurately the prophesies revealed history, then we may with confidence take God at His word. God, with a foresight that proved there is a God in heaven who knows the end from the beginning. And why? In order to warn those living during the times spoken of that there was to come a real physical enemy posing as Christian institution and deceiving the world to follow it rather than Christ. This is the true meaning of the word Antichrist. In place of, instead of, Christ.
The empires Babylon, Media Persia, Greece, and Rome, were real literal empires. Depicted as metal components in the statue, and as beasts rising from the windblown sea. The horns that grew from the 4th beast, Rome, were also Nations. History reveals that just as the prophecy predicted, 3 of them were uprooted before the 11th horn. Those 7 remaining horns eventually formed what is now known as modem Europe. That 11th horn became the Papacy. It was the pagan Roman empire that, so long as it endured, was withholding the rise of the Papacy.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

But I think it takes away a lot of relevance to the actual factual history and it's importance to prophecy if we make those spiritual parallels the focus of conversation
.

Again, I get it is your thread but at the same time, with all due respect that is your opinion. For me making the parallels the focus of conversation reminds of: For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. Ephesians 6:12

The point of prophecy was to reveal God's control over the nations, that when we look back and see how accurately the prophesies revealed history, then we may with confidence take God at His word.

And it does. For instance in the world today, with the government and the court rooms. The rise of what’s going on…consider if what is being done in secret, what is being done in darkness behind shut doors would be brought out into the Light, then the world would see it quite differently yeah? But darkness and lies and power and control keeps those things hidden; so much so even the darkness is convinced of its rightness. Convinced of its false delusion. have you ever been in the midst of corruption and watched what actually took place get concealed; by a false image of what darkness only wants to come out? you would see its the darkness that doesn’t want any truth to be revealed. What would happen in this country would see what is hidden in the darkness and kept hush-hush? Would this country be shocked when witnessing what has been taking place in darkness, and see the enemy at work? For instance what is going on in the world of politics…what would be revealed that the darkness does not want revealed?

God, with a foresight that proved there is a God in heaven who knows the end from the beginning. And why? In order to warn those living during the times spoken of that there was to come a real physical enemy posing as Christian institution and deceiving the world to follow it rather than Christ.

“a real physical enemy” which I’m not disputing but there is a spirit behind not wanting it brought out into the light for reproof and to be destroyed…seeing there is a lot of falsehood to lost. John 3:19-20 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. [20] For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.

This is the true meaning of the word Antichrist. In place of, instead of, Christ.

men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

The empires Babylon, Media Persia, Greece, and Rome, were real literal empires. Depicted as metal components in the statue, and as beasts rising from the windblown sea

What sea is windblown?

Depicted as metal components in the statue, and as beasts rising from the windblown sea. The horns that grew from the 4th beast, Rome, were also Nations. History reveals that just as the prophecy predicted, 3 of them were uprooted before the 11th horn. Those 7 remaining horns eventually formed what is now known as modem Europe. That 11th horn became the Papacy. It was the pagan Roman empire that, so long as it endured, was withholding the rise of the Papacy.

still say (as an opinion) the darkness working in the world and governments today is what hinders “the devil hindered us from coming to you”. That it is the darkness and falsehood that prevents that man of sin from being revealed (brought out unto the Light)to be destroyed …because they prefer a lie and a delusion over the truth. To clarify, when I say truth I don’t mean, theology. I mean confession before all …I mean loss of image and humiliation; in admitting I manipulated, I lied, I cheated, I stole, I hated, i destroyed, trampled, I even believed and convinced myself of an delusion, doing whatever it took to maintain the false image. A spoiling of your goods.

 

[Brakelite]

Again, I get it is your thread but at the same time, with all due respect that is your opinion. For me making the parallels the focus of conversation reminds of: For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. Ephesians 6:12



And it does. For instance in the world today, with the government and the court rooms. The rise of what’s going on…consider if what is being done in secret, what is being done in darkness behind shut doors would be brought out into the Light, then the world would see it quite differently yeah? But darkness and lies and power and control keeps those things hidden; so much so even the darkness is convinced of its rightness. Convinced of its false delusion. have you ever been in the midst of corruption and watched what actually took place get concealed; by a false image of what darkness only wants to come out? you would see its the darkness that doesn’t want any truth to be revealed. What would happen in this country would see what is hidden in the darkness and kept hush-hush? Would this country be shocked when witnessing what has been taking place in darkness, and see the enemy at work? For instance what is going on in the world of politics…what would be revealed that the darkness does not want revealed?



“a real physical enemy” which I’m not disputing but there is a spirit behind not wanting it brought out into the light for reproof and to be destroyed…seeing there is a lot of falsehood to lost. John 3:19-20 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. [20] For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.



men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.



What sea is windblown?


still say (as an opinion) the darkness working in the world and governments today is what hinders “the devil hindered us from coming to you”. That it is the darkness and falsehood that prevents that man of sin from being revealed (brought out unto the Light)to be destroyed …because they prefer a lie and a delusion over the truth. To clarify, when I say truth I don’t mean, theology. I mean confession before all …I mean loss of image and humiliation; in admitting I manipulated, I lied, I cheated, I stole, I hated, i destroyed, trampled, I even believed and convinced myself of an delusion, doing whatever it took to maintain the false image. A spoiling of your goods.

Totally agree that there is much hidden in the darkness. And there is coming a time when all will be revealed...

Here the windblown sea...
KJV Jeremiah 25:32-33
32 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, Behold, evil shall go forth from nation to nation, and a great whirlwind shall be raised up from the coasts of the earth.
33 And the slain of the LORD shall be at that day from one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth: they shall not be lamented, neither gathered, nor buried; they shall be dung upon the ground.

KJV Revelation 17:15-16
15 And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.

And after the deceptions and wickedness is uncovered...

16 And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.

Not the same beast as in Daniel, nor the same horns. But parallel.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Totally agree that there is much hidden in the darkness. And there is coming a time when all will be revealed...

Here the windblown sea...
KJV Jeremiah 25:32-33
32 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, Behold, evil shall go forth from nation to nation, and a great whirlwind shall be raised up from the coasts of the earth.
33 And the slain of the LORD shall be at that day from one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth: they shall not be lamented, neither gathered, nor buried; they shall be dung upon the ground.

KJV Revelation 17:15-16
15 And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.

And after the deceptions and wickedness is uncovered...

16 And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.

Not the same beast as in Daniel, nor the same horns. But parallel.

“And the slain of the LORD shall be at that day from one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth: they shall not be lamented, neither gathered, nor buried; they shall be dung upon the ground.”

see, is this a literal coming day of corpses of dead men lying everywhere that there is so many “slain of the Lord”…that there is not enough room to bury them all? Is this an evil thing “the slain of the Lord”? Let the dead bury the dead…come follow Me? So many “slain of the Lord” That they be as dung upon the ground”? Consider Paul then: Romans 7:9-12 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died. [10] And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death. [11] For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me. [12] Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
“sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence.” “wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good” knowing the law is spiritual, and I am carnal sold under sin”…oh who shall deliver me from this body of death? where “the slain of the Lord” shall be at that day from one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth…for the Word of the Lord is taken to all the ends of earth. …The slain of the Lord and the Spirit of His mouth many?
Matthew 24:11-14 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. [12] And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. [13] But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. [14] And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Jeremiah 25:31-32 A noise shall come even to the ends of the earth; for the Lord hath a controversy with the nations, he will plead with all flesh; he will give them that are wicked to the sword, saith the Lord. [32] Thus saith the Lord of hosts, Behold, evil shall go forth from nation to nation, and a great whirlwind shall be raised up from the coasts of the earth.

“They shall be dung upon the ground”…
Philippians 3:7-8 But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ. [8] Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,

Luke 13:8-9 And he answering said unto him, Lord, let it alone this year also, till I shall dig about it, and dung it : [9] And if it bear fruit, well : and if not, then after that thou shalt cut it down.

Jeremiah 25:32-33 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, Behold, evil shall go forth from nation to nation, and a great whirlwind shall be raised up from the coasts of the earth.
33 And the slain of the LORD shall be at that day from one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth: they shall not be lamented, neither gathered, nor buried; they shall be dung upon the ground.



I see what you are saying about the sea blown upon; my thoughts were in the Revelation of Jesus Christ when the four winds blow upon the sea. As far as “a whirlwind” ; a whirlwind took Elijah up. 2 Kings 2:1-22, Numbers 5:17-31
And if the woman be not defiled, but be clean; then she shall be free, and shall conceive seed.

Job 40:6-12 Then answered the Lord unto Job out of the whirlwind, and said, [7] Gird up thy loins now like a man: I will demand of thee, and declare thou unto me. [8] Wilt thou also disannul my judgment? wilt thou condemn me, that thou mayest be righteous? [9] Hast thou an arm like God? or canst thou thunder with a voice like him? [10] Deck thyself now with majesty and excellency; and array thyself with glory and beauty. [11] Cast abroad the rage of thy wrath: and behold every one that is proud, and abase him. (God is able) [12] Look on every one that is proud, and bring him low (God is able); and tread down the wicked in their place.

Proverbs 10:24-25 The fear of the wicked, it shall come upon him: but the desire of the righteous shall be granted. [25] As the whirlwind passeth, so is the wicked no more : but the righteous is an everlasting foundation.
what is taken out of the way when the whirlwinds passes?

Isaiah 17:12-14 Woe to the multitude of many people, which make a noise like the noise of the seas; and to the rushing of nations, that make a rushing like the rushing of mighty waters! [13] The nations shall rush like the rushing of many waters: but God shall rebuke them, and they shall flee far off, and shall be chased as the chaff of the mountains before the wind, and like a rolling thing before the whirlwind. [14] And behold at eveningtide trouble; and before the morning he is not. This is the portion of them that spoil us, and the lot of them that rob us.

Isaiah 40:24 Yea, they shall not be planted; yea, they shall not be sown: yea, their stock shall not take root in the earth: and he shall also blow upon them, and they shall wither, and the whirlwind shall take them away as stubble.

Zechariah 9:14-16 And the Lord shall be seen over them, and his arrow shall go forth as the lightning: and the Lord God shall blow the trumpet, and shall go with whirlwinds of the south. [15] The Lord of hosts shall defend them; and they shall devour, and subdue with sling stones; and they shall drink, and make a noise as through wine; and they shall be filled like bowls, and as the corners of the altar. [16] And the Lord their God shall save them in that day as the flock of his people: for they shall be as the stones of a crown, lifted up as an ensign upon his land.

So many more references like they sow the wind and shall reap the whirlwind…

 

[VictoryinJesus]

concerning: The Restrainer. And the Restrained.

still so many questions in reference to 2 Thessalonians 2:3-8 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; [4] Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. [5] Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? [6] And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. [7] For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. [8] And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming.

…that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
…And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. [7] For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. [8] And then shall that Wicked be revealed,
…whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of His mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of His coming.
1 Corinthians 4:5 Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness,(and then shall that wicked be revealed) and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God.

The only verse I could find where the love of God “restrains” is 2 Corinthians 5:10-14 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. [11] Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences. [12] For we commend not ourselves again unto you, but give you occasion to glory on our behalf, that ye may have somewhat to answer them which glory in appearance, and not in heart. (For when the Lord comes, He will make manifest the counsels of the hearts) [13] For whether we be beside ourselves, it is to God: or whether we be sober, it is for your cause. [14] For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead:


But the love of God restrains His body …not the other way around…in judge nothing before He comes who makes manifest the counsels of the hearts and reveals hidden secrets…unto the praise and glory of God.

2 Corinthians 5:15-21 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again. [16] Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more. [17] Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. [18] And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation; [19] To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. [20] Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God. [21] For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead:

Could be the love of God which constrains…be what restrains that is to be taken out of the way? Possibly in the love of many waxes cold, brothers hating brother, a falling away must come first …but still Then ithe man of sin is revealed. In no “the love of God constrains us”. Does this happen the love of many waxing cold happen all at once in the future? This man of sin revealed all at once? because He said a sword Will pierce hearts that the hearts of many be revealed? Luke 2:34-35 And Simeon blessed them, and said unto Mary his mother, Behold, this child is set for the fall and rising again of many in Israel; and for a sign which shall be spoken against; [35] (Yea, a sword shall pierce through thy own soul also,) that the thoughts of many hearts may be revealed.

Are the thoughts of many hearts being revealed, that man of sin, the son of perdition in the love of many waxes cold? “that ye may have somewhat to answer them which glory in appearance, and not in heart”. Again, Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness,(and then shall that wicked be revealed) and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God.

1 Corinthians 14:24-25 But if all prophesy, and there come in one that believeth not, or one unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all: (For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead:
And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.) [25] And thus are the secrets of his heart made manifest; and so falling down on his face he will worship God, and report that God is in you of a truth.

So who is the restrainer. And the restrained? If it is the love of God which constrains in Judge nothing before He comes who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts:
Then what is not constrained by the love of God that …the love of many waxes cold and brother will rise up against brother?

 

[Truth7t7]

“And the slain of the LORD shall be at that day from one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth: they shall not be lamented, neither gathered, nor buried; they shall be dung upon the ground.”

see, is this a literal coming day of corpses of dead men lying everywhere that there is so many “slain of the Lord”…that there is not enough room to bury them all? Is this an evil thing “the slain of the Lord”? Let the dead bury the dead…come follow Me? So many “slain of the Lord” That they be as dung upon the ground”? Consider Paul then: Romans 7:9-12 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died. [10] And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death. [11] For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me. [12] Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
“sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence.” “wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good” knowing the law is spiritual, and I am carnal sold under sin”…oh who shall deliver me from this body of death? where “the slain of the Lord” shall be at that day from one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth…for the Word of the Lord is taken to all the ends of earth. …The slain of the Lord and the Spirit of His mouth many?
Matthew 24:11-14 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. [12] And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. [13] But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. [14] And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Jeremiah 25:31-32 A noise shall come even to the ends of the earth; for the Lord hath a controversy with the nations, he will plead with all flesh; he will give them that are wicked to the sword, saith the Lord. [32] Thus saith the Lord of hosts, Behold, evil shall go forth from nation to nation, and a great whirlwind shall be raised up from the coasts of the earth.

“They shall be dung upon the ground”…
Philippians 3:7-8 But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ. [8] Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,

Luke 13:8-9 And he answering said unto him, Lord, let it alone this year also, till I shall dig about it, and dung it : [9] And if it bear fruit, well : and if not, then after that thou shalt cut it down.

Jeremiah 25:32-33 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, Behold, evil shall go forth from nation to nation, and a great whirlwind shall be raised up from the coasts of the earth.
33 And the slain of the LORD shall be at that day from one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth: they shall not be lamented, neither gathered, nor buried; they shall be dung upon the ground.



I see what you are saying about the sea blown upon; my thoughts were in the Revelation of Jesus Christ when the four winds blow upon the sea. As far as “a whirlwind” ; a whirlwind took Elijah up. 2 Kings 2:1-22, Numbers 5:17-31
And if the woman be not defiled, but be clean; then she shall be free, and shall conceive seed.

Job 40:6-12 Then answered the Lord unto Job out of the whirlwind, and said, [7] Gird up thy loins now like a man: I will demand of thee, and declare thou unto me. [8] Wilt thou also disannul my judgment? wilt thou condemn me, that thou mayest be righteous? [9] Hast thou an arm like God? or canst thou thunder with a voice like him? [10] Deck thyself now with majesty and excellency; and array thyself with glory and beauty. [11] Cast abroad the rage of thy wrath: and behold every one that is proud, and abase him. (God is able) [12] Look on every one that is proud, and bring him low (God is able); and tread down the wicked in their place.

Proverbs 10:24-25 The fear of the wicked, it shall come upon him: but the desire of the righteous shall be granted. [25] As the whirlwind passeth, so is the wicked no more : but the righteous is an everlasting foundation.
what is taken out of the way when the whirlwinds passes?

Isaiah 17:12-14 Woe to the multitude of many people, which make a noise like the noise of the seas; and to the rushing of nations, that make a rushing like the rushing of mighty waters! [13] The nations shall rush like the rushing of many waters: but God shall rebuke them, and they shall flee far off, and shall be chased as the chaff of the mountains before the wind, and like a rolling thing before the whirlwind. [14] And behold at eveningtide trouble; and before the morning he is not. This is the portion of them that spoil us, and the lot of them that rob us.

Isaiah 40:24 Yea, they shall not be planted; yea, they shall not be sown: yea, their stock shall not take root in the earth: and he shall also blow upon them, and they shall wither, and the whirlwind shall take them away as stubble.

Zechariah 9:14-16 And the Lord shall be seen over them, and his arrow shall go forth as the lightning: and the Lord God shall blow the trumpet, and shall go with whirlwinds of the south. [15] The Lord of hosts shall defend them; and they shall devour, and subdue with sling stones; and they shall drink, and make a noise as through wine; and they shall be filled like bowls, and as the corners of the altar. [16] And the Lord their God shall save them in that day as the flock of his people: for they shall be as the stones of a crown, lifted up as an ensign upon his land.

So many more references like they sow the wind and shall reap the whirlwind…

1 Corinthians 3:13KJV
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

1 Corinthians 3:13KJV
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

but what does that say to you? “It rained hell fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all”?

 

[Truth7t7]

but what does that say to you? “It rained hell fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all”?

It means exactly what is written before your eyes, clear, simple, and easy to understand

1 Corinthians 3:13KJV
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.