Postmillenial Partial Preterism...What is it? A Victorious View of the Gospel.
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No the literal creation is just as God designed it.
The heavenly bodies allow us to have life as we know it.
It us this very fact that makes the language of judgment and change effective.
In other words it's declaring there major changes coming and it's not gonna be life as you know it.Major changes are taking place are changing
We were talking about interpretation, I thought. So I'm saying, the first use law as some refer to it, shows the first use of these words as being of the lights in the sky. So I'm saying that we do well to stick with that unless there is something in the context, or something else, something we can point to in the Bible that tells us this is something otherwise, as you are saying it is.
I'm saying, the Bible speaks of the sun and moon and stars as the lights in the sky, and unless there is a particular reason to overturn that meaning, I say we hold to it.
And saying, I don't see how that could happen, so it must mean something else, I don't think that's really valid. I'd sooner change my concept of what is possible. I've not come to such an impasse myself. I'm pretty accepting of what I read in the Bible.
Much love!
BTW . . . most people are dispensationalists, without realizing it. Anyone who things the sacrifices for sin are ended is dispensationalist.
Much love!
Just to say . . . unless you quote my post, I don't know you've replied. If I happen to catch my name as I go by, well, that's how I saw this.
Anyway . . . what are those prophecies? I read a lot of literal fulfillments. Who are Crenshaw and Gunn? And what is their view? Are they trying to justify non-literal fulfillments? What are they about?
I'd need to see the work, not just hear the claim. And there is more to it than just reading an OT verse, then reading a NT verse, and pronouncing Aha!
Much love!
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
I learned covenantal post millenialism until I discovered the richness of a dispensational understanding of Scripture, then became a pre trib pre mil believer. While all four are fraught with problems (because men got their hands on these and tried to tweak in each generation) I believe a pre trib, pre mil view is the correct view.
It is gained with using the literal, historical grammatical method of understanding Scripture and thus does less harm to the Word of God. I have found others to resort to too much allegorisms of passages and finding definitions for biblical eschatological symbols outside of scripture
Gods kingdom is not here yet, but will when Jesus physically returns as He promised. The church is or should not be about reconstructtionism, but bringing in the harvest! We are not called to christianize the world, we won't and can't!
As it so unambiguously says in Revelation, Jesus returns to earth, makes war, establishes a kingdom, then 1,000 years later God the Father deatroys a rebellion and establishes eternity.
I do not know if you are one who holds that the 1,000 years are symbolic of the church age, but I have biblically shown several here, that thought is utterly without any biblical merit.
awaiting a response.
My 1st response would be how did you learn covenantal post mill.? Where did you come up with that idea?
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
Well I picked up a book on eschatology from I believe his name was Loraine Boettner and it was covenantal post mil. I believe he is Presbyterian and uses covenant theology for understanding scripture
What m
Could you describe it?
What made you believe it,what did you like about it?
Could you describe it?
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[QUOTE="Iconoclast, post: 1098375,
What made you believe it,what did you like about it?
What do you mean by Covenantal Postmill?
Also you say you discovered the richness of dispensational pre mill.
Where did you discover it?
[/QUOTE]
What made you believe it,what did you like about it?
What do you mean by Covenantal Postmill?
Also you say you discovered the richness of dispensational pre mill.
Where did you discover it?
[/QUOTE]
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what do you mean by the term dispensationalist?
Your statement about sin makes me ask this?
How many dispensations do you think there are?
What are they?
How do they work?
Earlier in this thread in the 1st 3 or 4 pages I gave several definitions and started to outline some of this position could you go and respond to any of it and show me what you found to be inaccurate
Also you say the kingdom is not here now let me ask you a question is Jesus king or not yet?
What kingdom is spoken of in Hebrews12:22-29?
Rev.20 mentions a thousand years.6 times.
It us the only place it is mentioned.
Those beheaded saints are said to reign with Christ 1000yrs.
Where does it say in Rev.20, that they reign on the earth?
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
It was many many years ago so memories are a little fuzzy.
I was a new Christian and wanting to learn about everything in Scripture.
I grew up Catholic so I was already predisposed to an allegorical understanding of Scripture that this book offered. I knew nothing about theologies and various hermeneutics then and was naive to accept that if a Chrikstian bookstore sold it, it must be good ( I was 19 and converted from Satanism and agnosticism).
So I accepted it was telling me truth.
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
as for the inaccuracies, I will address that later. I have appts. today and my strength is still just coming back from heart valve replacement surgery.
Currently Jesus is high priest. Although He holds the offices of Prophet, Priest and King, He does not hold them simultaneously but concurrently. As it says in Heb. 7 He continually lives (present) to make intercession for us. When He returns physically He will assume His role as King of Kings and Lord of Lords
The heavenly kingdom which is eternal and not just for 1,000 years is in view in Heb. 12. this is the kingdom of the father. Remember Jesus 'reign is only temporary as is shown in 1 Cor. 15:
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
As for the thousand years? why do you feel it should be mentioned in more places? If you study the promises of the kingdom life in the OT you will see that the 1,000 years duration is the only new thing that the NT adds to the kingdom itself on earth.
Why is it the earth? Because Jesus comes back physically, judges the peoples and sends the lost to the place of torments and the righteous into the restored earth. Matt. 25 and Rev. 19 both show Jesus returning to earth and doing X things on earth.
1. If the 1,000 years is allegorical and represents the church age where many post millenialists say, then who are those who were resurrected and reign with Jesus for teh church age?
2. If the church age is the 1,000 years then Satan is abyssed which runs contradictory to the teachings of Paul and Peter who say Satan is still roaming the earth
3. If the church age is the 1,000 years, then Satan is releasewd after the church age but Jesus does not fight him but god sends fire from heaven to destroy him and cast him inot the lake of fire!
4. Remember the kingdom is presented in two aspects, physical and spiritual. We are currently lkiving in the spiritual benefits of the kingdom as ambassadors on earth (as Paul said) ambassadors are people sent to foreign lands and not to the kingdom they represent.
We can both.be thankful God saved us out of R.C. church.
Ron as a new Christian I "looked" at many books.and began to try and learn more about our Lord.
Are you sure you took a good look?
I rejected initially things that I now have a better understanding of.
I will gladly interact with you.Take your time and heal up from your recent medical challenge.
As we age we go in for a tune up more than our cars ..lol.
What I like most about the grandkids besides their energy is we get to enjoy our own kids,raising and loving the grandkids....I have 15 of them..lol
Anyone who thinks sacrifices for sin has ended is a dispensationalist.
All Christians believe this ,but not all are dispensational. So what and how do you understand it?
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
My journey was one of looking at many books and concepts in Christianity. I am compelled to know the truth. I am not perfect and after 47 years I have changed views many times as a better biblical argument was made from what I held.
Thanks to the Lord I have studied to show myself approved. My pastors and testing have confirmed that I have a calling as a prophet/apologist. Not a foretelling of future events, but a forth telling of the truth.
I have studied in depths many cults and learned their theologies better than many of their elders.
I have been kicked out of kingdom halls and major conventions, Mormons no longer come to my house, I have been threatened by new agers and called an apostate by many convental believers simply because I needed to know what was right and what was wrong. I went to Catholic grammar and high school right when Vatican 2 took place and the RC Church was going through its identity crisis. the nuns trashed the bible and I learnede more of eastern philosophy, psychology than Christian doctrine. I wandered through New Age thought, hedonism, drugs, crime, sexual promiscuity and satansim in a search for meaning and truth. Then Jesus found me. The bible was reintroduced to me and I needed to know in the very depths of my being that I could trust the bible to build my life on in christ.
It was an expensive, hard, tortuous, joyful journey but I have come to a place where even my pastors call me for biblical advice and answrering questions. I have taught tens of thousands and led thousands to the Lord. So when I settled on a dispensational hermeneutic anbd escatology it was a very well researched and studied process of all the major thoughts in Christendom.
OK, thank you!! My mind feels pretty foggy some times.
:)
The Levitical sacrificial system was the Law of the land for Israel at that time. The "oikonomia", or "house law", or "economy", or " the way you run your household". This word is translated dispensation. The idea is from dispensing something. The oikonomia was the manner and means of providing for the needs of the household members.
Through the Levitical sacrificial system, grace through faith was dispensed to the Israelites. Now, grace through faith are dispensed without that Levitical sacrificial system. A new manner and means is in place for providing for our needs, grace through faith in Jesus Christ.
Acknowledging this change is the same thing as saying this is one dispensation, and that was an difference dispensation.
That one was grace served up to them via animal sacrifices, this one is better, and is served to us through Christ.
Much love!
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