Did Jesus say that we are supposed to attend church?

[FHII]

Showing up on Sundays to collect offerings is great. It's not the Sabbath. I'm not talking Sabbath law here. Treating offerings like they are part of the Old Covenant is wrong. See 2 Cor. 8&9
Too many church leaders take from both the old and new Covenants, according to their need. Telling someone that God'll punish them if they don't tithe is wrong. Though stinginess towards God can bring a curse.

Few minor details of difference of thought between us, but not enough to comment on. Overall we are on the same page. I agree with what you said.

 

[Taken]

Fair enough... I really don't see that verse saying the Church is in an individual person since God called the Body of Christ (aka the Church) one body with many members, though.

I don't see anything too wrong with someone saying "the church is in me", except when they do so for not going to Church.

From my studies, I do see that Christ's Church is within me, and gave you the one scripture I felt was sufficient.
That is not an "excuse" for me, to "not go" to a man-made church, with set times, for an hour once a week, locked doors, a preselected sermon;
but rather an "advantage" for me, that I don't have to "go" anywhere, wait for a "set time", and the door to be "unlocked", or someone to else "select", a sermon.
We have (or otherwise) attend "church", anytime, anywhere, with anyone on a typical daily basis, "sermons", topic, atypical, to what we or another person "needs" to hear...
It varies. Maybe for 4 -5 hours straight one day or evening, and other days, an hour here and there between personal tending of our things, (home, laundry, cleaning, property, animals, garden, fields, equipment, and such).
This forum, is a useful tool, to observe what topics, and comments, others think about, are concerned about, lean toward in their beliefs. Sort of like a different perspective, or something we have not considered, to go to the Scirptures and see what the Scriptures say.
It is more usual than not, (and relatively easy) to meet complete strangers, in stores, pumping gas, parking lots, standing in lines, with a beggar holding a sign, stopping by a elderly rest home, etc., to have a brief or lengthy Scriptural discussion.
It's our preference.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Marymog]

Meaning they were Preaching from OT Scripture AND Oral Preaching the NT and years later were the "scribes" and "Apostles" letters being assembled "into" books.
Yes agree, copies made (by hand) distributed. And many many years later, before the public at large nearly all have a copy of the Book of Scriptures.

Mid 1400's invention of printing press, made books available in small quantity and not everyone could afford...To date, approx.,
5 Billion Bibles have been received into the hands of the people...(bought or gifted).
Pretty Phenomenal.

Dear Dear Taken,

Just because the printing press was invented in the 15th century doesn’t mean that every christian home had a bible in their hands a few years later. You do know that it was until the 17th century that the Bible started being printed in mass for the average person. Churches (Protestant and Catholic) chained the Bible to the pulpit because they were so expensive and desired. Weird thing is.....The Catholic Church gets chastised for chaining the Bible but the Protestant churches get a pass by you Protestants. How sad...

This means that for the first 1700 years of Christianity your theory, that every leader of a family is able to read the Bible and decide what they think the Bible says and is best for their family, is historically bankrupt.

 

[Marymog]

Ofcourse. Teachers, Speakers, Clerics most often had Scribes (ie Sectetaries) doing the writing while the Speaker spoke to the crowds, and then Recorders, Wrote the Scribes words on Parchment scrolls. It wasn't only Prophets who had Scribes, so did kings.
Point being, someone was deciding, how to formulate the Scribes "notes" into a readable formate.
And anyone in the crowd listening could hire a Scribe to write what they heard, so there are writings that were never part of Scripture. Then to consider how writings were kept, handed down, sold, etc.




Of course, well aware. In addition, many could not read, even up to the 20th century.



Personally, my ancestors, by letters I have, were reading and writing in the mid - 1600's. Into the 1700's, I also have many letters, and family Bibles, and copy's of a long history of college degree certificates, from the 1880's to present. So I am very familiar with my family's (maternal and paternal) educations, Spiritual Beliefs, occupations, and services.



Scripture! Which doesn't matter you think it a "theory"... I trust this:
1) God is All knowing.
2) 1 Cor 2:
[11] For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? [/B] even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.

Which is to say...WHO entirely knows a man, but the man himself and God.

How do you think anyone else is qualified to determine what Scripture Applies to me, except me?
I know what I think, believe, reject, accept, commit to and do and do not do;
which IS what determines WHAT Scripture Applies to me.

If you tell me you are a die-Hard Catholic, I can read the Catechism, and know step by step what you think, believe, accept, reject, commit to, do, do not do....by the format pronounced by a handful of men who have decided for you all those things, Because a die-hard Catholics allegience IS to their church.
My allegience above all IS to my Lord God...

Glory to God,
Taken

Huh??? I don’t understand a word you just said.

I can’t take this anymore....goodness.

 

[Marymog]

The Spirit (present in every believer) does that ( the Spirit of truth)for those who diligently seek Him and yes i just did give you the correct answer and nowhere in that is the RCC.



Who is going to teach you first?

You are still in the less than nothing crowd- you have to expunge all the RCC false teachings just to reach zero where you can be taught.

Well, your inability to quote a single passage from Scripture shows that your theory is bankrupt. You like to write a lot of words but you never really say anything. You’re ignorance of Scripture has become very evident over our last several conversations. I am willing to teach...but do to pride you are not able to learn.

Thank you for your time.

 

[FHII]

From my studies, I do see that Christ's Church is within me, and gave you the one scripture I felt was sufficient.

Yes... You gave me "one". Frankly, I could argue the context of that one. Now, did I not give you several scriptures that point to the organized gathering as essential? Furthermore, I left quite a few out like the entire chapter of Ephesians 4. Again, I am not against someone saying the Church is in me, but I disagree. We are in the Church, but by no means can we say we don't need to be in the Church or attend the assembling because the Church is in one person.

That is not an "excuse" for me, to "not go" to a man-made church, with set times, for an hour once a week, locked doors, a preselected sermon;
but rather an "advantage" for me, that I don't have to "go" anywhere, wait for a "set time", and the door to be "unlocked", or someone to else "select", a sermon.

Well you are right... Its not an excuse. There is no excusing it. But I don't think its an advantage. It seems more of a convenience.

Your list of reasonings why it is an "advantage" seems rather odd to me...

1. "Man made Church". Well, you are either a man or a woman (not intending to offend you with that) so the church that is in you is still of "man" just as much as any other. Besides, God said the kingdom was within men and that he gave gift unto men for the perfecting of the saints. He also said he chose men as in preachers to save those that believe. Jesus came as a man to save men... So the notion that a church is "man made" doesn't really seem like a reasonable argument to me unless you aren't a man (human being).

2. With set times. Well what else can a Church do? Do you have a job? Most jobs have a set time for everyone to show up so work can be done. Schools have a set time as well. Sports teams have a set time to practice and a set time to compete against other teams. So is it that wrong for Churches to do so?

Sure, it would be great if a Church could find a time to best suit everyone's busy schedule... But it is unlikely unless everyone vows to put Christ first. Then, its easy.

3. For an hour once a week. What? Wow! My church meets twice a week for at least 2 hours each service! That doesn't really matter... I am sure some Churches go longer... But are you really complaining about giving up ONE hour out of your week to gather with the brethren and praise God?

4. Locked doors. Does that really bother you? Our doors are locked too, but thats so no nut jobs can get in... Its not to keep us in. Our doors are open to leave at any time. But yeah... If someone is actually preventing you from leaving I can see that. My Pastor is different... If you want to leave he encourages you to do so... He doesn't want the dead weight!

5. Preselected sermon. Well, I'm mixed on this one. A sermon should be selected based on what the entire congregation needs first, and if needed can be based on one individual. But it should be local and personal to the parish. It shouldn't be sent from Rome, Italy; Cleveland, Tennessee or Independence, Missouri.

One the other hand... It shouldn't be off-the-cuff either, except in rare times. There is everything right with a preacher prepping for his sermon a week in advance.

Taken, I by no means and criticizing your walk. If that is what works for you, please continue, as if you needed my blessing or permission! But it doesn't for me. Through my studies I see that I need a preacher and need to gather with those of like prescious faith. And I actually enjoy it. But best to you...

 

[Taken]

Dear Dear Taken,

Just because the printing press was invented in the 15th century doesn’t mean that every christian home had a bible in their hands a few years later.

No kidding, and addressed that.

You do know that it was until the 17th century that the Bible started being printed in mass for the average person. Churches (Protestant and Catholic) chained the Bible to the pulpit because they were so expensive and desired. Weird thing is.....The Catholic Church gets chastised for chaining the Bible but the Protestant churches get a pass by you Protestants. How sad...

Criticism goes deeper than the Catholic churches simply chaining Bibles.

This means that for the first 1700 years of Christianity your theory

, that every leader of a family is able to read the Bible and decide what they think the Bible says and is best for their family, is historically bankrupt.

Guess what?? I didn't and don't live two, three, four hundred years ago. I don't have to run to a handful of men to read for me, think for me, decide for me what applies to me.
If you still are sitting at the feet of a handful of men dictating your thoughts, your beliefs, your requirements, and have no need to verify in Scripture that it be so...
That's you...Perhaps you have not noticed, Heads of families, are not all men, and the Spiritual leadership of men has become pretty skimpy. If you think that simply a theory, or bankrupt...who cares? I don't.
I know me, better than you. I know what applies to me, by what I think, believe, do...
Also know that, better than you.
End of discussion.

 

[Taken]

Huh??? I don’t understand a word you just said.

I can’t take this anymore....goodness.

I don't live in an ancient historical era, that I can't read, don't have access to Scripture, need to be told what to believe, what to do.

 

[Curtis]

Matthew 18:20

For where two or three ... - This is a general assertion made to support the particular promise made Mat 18:19 to his apostles. He affirms that wherever two or three are assembled together in his name, he is in the midst of them.

In my name - That is,

1. By my authority, acting for me in my church. See Joh 10:25; Joh 16:23.

2. It may mean for my service; in the place of prayer and praise, assembled in obedience to my commend, and with a desire to promote my glory.


There am I in the midst of them - Nothing could more clearly prove that Jesus must be omnipresent, and, of course, be God. Every day, perhaps every hour, two or three, or many more, may be assembled in every city or village in the United States, in England, in Greenland, in Africa, in Ceylon, in the Sandwich Islands, in Russia, and in Judea - in almost every part of the world - and in the midst of them all is Jesus the Saviour. Millions thus at the same time, in every quarter of the globe, worship in his name, and experience the truth of the promise that he is present with them. It is impossible that he should be in all these places and not be God.

 

[Taken]

Yes... You gave me "one". Frankly, I could argue the context of that one. Now, did I not give you several scriptures that point to the organized gathering as essential? Furthermore, I left quite a few out like the entire chapter of Ephesians 4. Again, I am not against someone saying the Church is in me, but I disagree. We are in the Church, but by no means can we say we don't need to be in the Church or attend the assembling because the Church is in one person.


Well you are right... Its not an excuse. There is no excusing it But I don't think its an advantage. It seems more of a convenience.

We were on good terms, of disagreeing, until the punch.

Your list of reasonings why it is an "advantage" seems rather odd to me...

1. "Man made Church". Well, you are either a man or a woman (not intending to offend you with that) so the church that is in you is still of "man" just as much as any other.

Disagree. The Church that is IN ME, is IN my born again spirit. The "man" is a flesh body.
I do not believe all men in a Church are Converted.
A man-made church is full of non-Converted.

Besides, God said the kingdom was within men and that he gave gift unto men for the perfecting of the saints. He also said he chose men as in preachers to save those that believe. Jesus came as a man to save men...

The Saved do not require Saving.
I am already Saved.

So the notion that a church is "man made" doesn't really seem like a reasonable argument to me unless you aren't a man (human being).

Remember...the man-made Temple, Jesus caused to be destroyed?

2. With set times. Well what else can a Church do? Do you have a job? Most jobs have a set time for everyone to show up so work can be done. Schools have a set time as well. Sports teams have a set time to practice and a set time to compete against other teams. So is it that wrong for Churches to do so?

Irrelevant question. I never said "set times" were Wrong. I have Liberty to schedule my time as I please. Also as I please, daily, IS Scripture Included in my time.
Can you say the same?

3. For an hour once a week. What? Wow! My church meets twice a week for at least 2 hours each service! That doesn't really matter...

Correct. It doesn't matter, it was a generalization.

I am sure some Churches go longer...

But are you really complaining about giving up ONE hour out of your week to gather with the brethren and praise God?

Never said any such thing. I Praise God any time, any place, with family and strangers...
Without the pretense.... of a fashion show, gossip, the flirting, texting, squirming, making lunch plans, making business contacts, rituals, and being entertained....IN a man-made church...
That all occurs IN present day churches;
IN WHAT God call...A HOUSE of PRAYER.
(Remember Jesus' reaction, when the Temple was used for bargaining?)

4. Locked doors. Does that really bother you? Our doors are locked too, but thats so no nut jobs can get in... Its not to keep us in. Our doors are open to leave at any time. But yeah... If someone is actually preventing you from leaving I can see that. My Pastor is different... If you want to leave he encourages you to do so... He doesn't want the dead weight!

Odd. Obviously, one can leave if they want to....But be encouraged to leave, rather that to offer to lend an ear, as to why...

5. Preselected sermon. Well, I'm mixed on this one. A sermon should be selected based on what the entire congregation needs first, and if needed can be based on one individual. But it should be local and personal to the parish. It shouldn't be sent from Rome, Italy; Cleveland, Tennessee or Independence, Missouri.

I'm pretty sure most denominations are on the same topic regardless of where they are located...

One the other hand... It shouldn't be off-the-cuff either, except in rare times. There is everything right with a preacher prepping for his sermon a week in advance.

Polls and Surverys are regularly conducted, and the findings repeatedly dim.
Most American Own a Bible, but don't read it.
Clerics rank nearly 50% who do not Believe the Bible.
Clerics ranked moderately on trustworthiness, and dropped low after the reports of Catholic Priests and Protestant Pastors affairs and child abuse cases.

Taken, I by no means and criticizing your walk.

Sure you did. I highlighted it in red.

Through my studies I see that I need a preacher and need to gather with those of like prescious faith. And I actually enjoy it. But best to you...

Yep, I enjoy it too, just not in the same scheduled fashion and place as you do.
TY and best to you as well.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[An Apologetic Sheepdog]

Well, your inability to quote a single passage from Scripture shows that your theory is bankrupt. You like to write a lot of words but you never really say anything. You’re ignorance of Scripture has become very evident over our last several conversations. I am willing to teach...but do to pride you are not able to learn.

Thank you for your time.

I reference them, you know this but like the RCC you make up straw arguments to claim a win all the time while still failing to refute anything.

Your knowledge is so weak you cannot get off script because then you have no recourse as you demonstrate now.

 

[FHII]

We were on good terms, of disagreeing, until the punch.

You consider that a punch? Let's review:

"Well you are right... Its not an excuse. There is no excusing it But I don't think its an advantage. It seems more of a convenience."

I gave scripture on why going to Church is important. You ignored most of it. Is it a punch then? Perhaps... But I did give scripture.

Disagree. The Church that is IN ME, is IN my born again spirit. The "man" is a flesh body.
I do not believe all men in a Church are Converted.
A man-made church is full of non-Converted.

Well, you don't have a whole lot of scripture to back that up. Not in comparison to the scripture that says we are one body with many members. And I will challenge you that a man made church is full of nonconverted... How can you be sure of that?

The Saved do not require Saving.
I am already Saved.

Oh, you probably didnt even read the verse I am referring to. It says just the opposite:

1 Corinthians 1:21 KJV
For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

Those that believe still need preaching.

Irrelevant question. I never said "set times" were Wrong. I have Liberty to schedule my time as I please. Also as I please, daily, IS Scripture Included in my time.

You complained and even in this rebuttal you complain. You made a lit of points on why you don't go to Church, and this is one of them.

Can you say the same?

Care to find out?

Never said any such thing. I Praise God any time, any place, with family and strangers...
Without the pretense.... of a fashion show, gossip, the flirting, texting, squirming, making lunch plans, making business contacts, rituals, and being entertained....IN a man-made church...
That all occurs IN present day churches;

Well, yes you did. And now you give a while lot more reasons why you don't like church and forsake what God said to do. And it comes down to the people being human.

Odd. Obviously, one can leave if they want to....But be encouraged to leave, rather that to offer to lend an ear, as to why...

Yeah, and I can tell you about a lot of other rubbish he doesn't put up with and most of it is what you were complaining about! Bottom lime is you won't be happy with any answer.

Overall, your church is actually biblical. Its described in Judges 17:6.

 

[Taken]

Well, you don't have a whole lot of scripture to back that up.

Don't require "a lot" of Scriptures.
Do you recall, ANYONE in Scripture, NOT in a man-made Church, gathering together, ministering, speaking the Word of God, praising God?
Perhaps, in a field, a street, a garden, a boat, at a water well, a town? Anywhere two or three are present?

Not in comparison to the scripture that says we are one body with many members.

That ^ relates to, men IN Christ, regardless of where they are at any time; flying in a plane, on a boat on a sea, any continent, they ARE: one body IN Christ, the Spirit of God IN them, a son of God, a son of Abraham...

And I will challenge you that a man made church is full of nonconverted... How can you be sure of that?

Because I know the Difference BETWEEN...
A (non-committed) Beginner, learning ABOUT,
A (non-committed) man WITH Christ,
A (committed) man WITHIN Christ.

Oh, you probably didnt even read the verse I am referring to. It says just the opposite:

1 Corinthians 1:21 KJV
For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

That is not SAVING the SAVED.
That is SAVING those that HEAR and BELIEVE

Those that believe still need preaching.

Never said otherwise.
I have a Holy, without SIN, HIGH Priest, Ordained by God Himself, and HIS WORD, WITH and IN, me 24-7, Verifiable, IN Scripture.
Does that apply to your...minister?

You complained and even in this rebuttal you complain. You made a lit of points on why you don't go to Church, and this is one of them.

Not complaining. Standing for what I believe, whether or not in contrast to a METHOD, you believe IS Required.
You simply DID NOT "LISTEN".
~ "GO" to a Church, one/twice a week, is YOUR method.
Do the MATH...365 days in a year.
52 or perhaps 104 times a year, you "GO" to a church, are ministered to BY A man, (who HAS sinned), WHOM, you are THEN, supposed to Search the Scriptures, to discover WHAT your minister says IS TRUE or not.
~ My preferred "method" - IS Daily, any time, any place, with any one, friend, family, neighbor, stranger... alone...
DOES NOT REQUIRE, me "GO" or "BE" in a man-made BUILDING...I HAVE His Word, IN ME, and HAVE, His Written Testimony IN MY Hand to Verify.
TO gather.
TO BE ministered TO, BY my Lord.
TO SPEAK TO, my Lord.
TO HEAR, my Lord.
TO Praise, my Lord.
TO Worship, my Lord.

And now you give a while lot more reasons why you don't like church

Uh huh. And? Do you also criticize Jesus, when He didn't LIKE men USING the TEMPLE, as a money exchange, as a place to buy and sell?
The Lord said:
Luke 19:
[46] Saying unto them, It is written, My house is thehouse of prayer: but ye have made it a den of thieves.
it is written
Reference; (Isa 56:7).

(You are naive, IF, you are unaware, of the flirting, making business deals, texting, gossip, fashion shows, discussing sports, entertainment, elevating oneself to "feel good about themselves", etc. that goes on IN man-made churches...AND the number of People, WHO HAVE NOT made a heartful COMMITMENT.)

and forsake what God said to do.

Your opinion...but irrelevant. My "attendance" in church, simply does not REQUIRE me to "GO" to a "man-made" building.

You are hung up ON... a man-made "church building". That one "MUST", "GO" there.
I don't believe, I "MUST", "GO" anywhere...
To gather, To Hear my High Priest, To Learn, To Praise, To Worship my Lord.

Yeah, and I can tell you about a lot of other rubbish he doesn't put up with and most of it is what you were complaining about! Bottom lime is you won't be happy with any answer.

I wasn't complaining. Just stating facts.
What appeals to you doesn't affect my joy or my options of any time, any place, 24-7 my High Priest is WITH, and IN me.

Overall, your church is actually biblical. Its described in Judges 17:6.

Judges 17:
[6] In those days there was no king in Israel, but every man did that which was right in his own eyes.

Nah...again, you do not LISTEN...that does not describe "the church I attend".

Luke 12:
[21] Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

Matt 28:
[20] Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

2 Cor 13:
[5] Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

Gal 2:
[20] I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

LISTEN...It matters NOT...where "anyone else"....IS, or GOES...
my Lord IS the foundation and head of HIS CHURCH...and is WITH me, and IN me, 24-7.
EVERY place...
Where He IS, IS His Church.
Where I am, IS HIS Chruch.
His Church IS NOT, built with mens hands.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[FHII]

Don't require "a lot" of Scriptures.
Do you recall, ANYONE in Scripture, NOT in a man-made Church, gathering together, ministering, speaking the Word of God, praising God?
Perhaps, in a field, a street, a garden, a boat, at a water well, a town? Anywhere two or three are present?



That ^ relates to, men IN Christ, regardless of where they are at any time; flying in a plane, on a boat on a sea, any continent, they ARE: one body IN Christ, the Spirit of God IN them, a son of God, a son of Abraham...



Because I know the Difference BETWEEN...
A (non-committed) Beginner, learning ABOUT,
A (non-committed) man WITH Christ,
A (committed) man WITHIN Christ.




That is not SAVING the SAVED.
That is SAVING those that HEAR and BELIEVE



Never said otherwise.
I have a Holy, without SIN, HIGH Priest, Ordained by God Himself, and HIS WORD, WITH and IN, me 24-7, Verifiable, IN Scripture.
Does that apply to your...minister?



Not complaining. Standing for what I believe, whether or not in contrast to a METHOD, you believe IS Required.
You simply DID NOT "LISTEN".
~ "GO" to a Church, one/twice a week, is YOUR method.
Do the MATH...365 days in a year.
52 or perhaps 104 times a year, you "GO" to a church, are ministered to BY A man, (who HAS sinned), WHOM, you are THEN, supposed to Search the Scriptures, to discover WHAT your minister says IS TRUE or not.
~ My preferred "method" - IS Daily, any time, any place, with any one, friend, family, neighbor, stranger... alone...
DOES NOT REQUIRE, me "GO" or "BE" in a man-made BUILDING...I HAVE His Word, IN ME, and HAVE, His Written Testimony IN MY Hand to Verify.
TO gather.
TO BE ministered TO, BY my Lord.
TO SPEAK TO, my Lord.
TO HEAR, my Lord.
TO Praise, my Lord.
TO Worship, my Lord.



Uh huh. And? Do you also criticize Jesus, when He didn't LIKE men USING the TEMPLE, as a money exchange, as a place to buy and sell?
The Lord said:
Luke 19:
[46] Saying unto them, It is written, My house is thehouse of prayer: but ye have made it a den of thieves.
it is written
Reference; (Isa 56:7).

(You are naive, IF, you are unaware, of the flirting, making business deals, texting, gossip, fashion shows, discussing sports, entertainment, elevating oneself to "feel good about themselves", etc. that goes on IN man-made churches...AND the number of People, WHO HAVE NOT made a heartful COMMITMENT.)



Your opinion...but irrelevant. My "attendance" in church, simply does not REQUIRE me to "GO" to a "man-made" building.

You are hung up ON... a man-made "church building". That one "MUST", "GO" there.
I don't believe, I "MUST", "GO" anywhere...
To gather, To Hear my High Priest, To Learn, To Praise, To Worship my Lord.



I wasn't complaining. Just stating facts.
What appeals to you doesn't affect my joy or my options of any time, any place, 24-7 my High Priest is WITH, and IN me.



Judges 17:
[6] In those days there was no king in Israel, but every man did that which was right in his own eyes.

Nah...again, you do not LISTEN...that does not describe "the church I attend".

Luke 12:
[21] Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

Matt 28:
[20] Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

2 Cor 13:
[5] Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

Gal 2:
[20] I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

LISTEN...It matters NOT...where "anyone else"....IS, or GOES...
my Lord IS the foundation and head of HIS CHURCH...and is WITH me, and IN me, 24-7.
EVERY place...
Where He IS, IS His Church.
Where I am, IS HIS Chruch.
His Church IS NOT, built with mens hands.

Glory to God,
Taken

While I am not sure I understand what your opening question is, or the reasoning for it, I can assure you that Jesus taught daily in the temple (Matt 26:55), Peter gave the first Apostolic sermon in the upper room (Acts 2) and Paul preached all night in an upper chamber and even raised someone from the dead in a building. While there we sermons outside and not in a man made building, these three (arguably the top 3 Christian preachers) had no problem whatsoever preaching in a man made building. Therefore, I see no reason why anyone else should have a problem with a man made building.

Speaking of those three... Let's focus on Jesus: that sinless high priest you mentioned. If you are following him you should remember he turned his ministry over to Peter and Paul, along with 10 other men who sinned. So if you are following Jesus you ought to do what he says and hear them, because the words they speak hold as much weight as the words of Jesus. And unless you believe Jesus stopped calling men to preach, that is still valid today.

The fact that they are sinners and that the congregation is made up of sinners is irrelevant: we arent supposed to be looking or knowing them after the flesh and neither should they know us after the flesh. As for claiming people have not made a heartfelt commitment, its probably something we shouldn't do. Doing so would clearly be based on what our standards are. Even if it is true, we should be lifting them up and encouraging them; not complaining about them.

Finally, while the Body of Christ is indeed global today, it is called to meet locally in the flesh. That is what happened in the New Testament, and when they did meet it was with leadership. That was the plan Jesus put forth and that's what they did according to the scripture. I could give it to you again, but if you are of the opinion that no scripture is needed, why bother?

 

[Taken]

While I am not sure I understand what your opening question is, or the reasoning for it, I can assure you that Jesus taught daily in the temple (Matt 26:55), Peter gave the first Apostolic sermon in the upper room (Acts 2) and Paul preached all night in an upper chamber and even raised someone from the dead in a building. While there we sermons outside and not in a man made building, these three (arguably the top 3 Christian preachers) had no problem whatsoever preaching in a man made building. Therefore, I see no reason why anyone else should have a problem with a man made building.

It is my view, What Jesus taught, what the Apostles taught, are IN the Scriptures, readily available and at my fingertips.
A Church, a school, a stadium, a home, a field, a boat, a tent; is NOT off limits to gather for a meeting for Speaking the Word of God and Spiritual praise and worship to the Lord God.

Speaking of those three... Let's focus on Jesus: that sinless high priest you mentioned. If you are following him you should remember he turned his ministry over to Peter and Paul, along with 10 other men who sinned.

AND? They all turned to Jesus FOR knowledge and understanding....
You think the same is not available to me?

So if you are following Jesus you ought to do what he says and hear them, because the words they speak hold as much weight as the words of Jesus. And unless you believe Jesus stopped calling men to preach, that is still valid today.

And WHY do you somehow think that is "exclusive" to only "churches" ?
I didn't say men were not called. How is that comment relevant?
One of my neighbors who is a Pastor, who has personally visited Israel, lived there on different occasions, with a wealth of very interesting knowledge, visits during some our gatherings. My own mother, before she passed, held a theology degree.
We have traveled all over the US., met people, domestic and foreign, non-church goers interested to meet and hear Biblical knowledge and did so. I've mentored prisoners, read Scripture for the elderly in rest homes, Had a sail boat for several years, and met many people in the marinas, that we fellowshiped with. Had a hundred teen kids at my home every week-end in the summers, playing vollyball, cooking out, and full well knowing there was going to be 'Church" time. Had Deaf kids, meet with us in our home to hear and read scriptures and show up on a whim asking for more about Jesus.
Why you seem to think holding a "church" meeting, outside of a Church is somehow taboo is beyond me.
Personally, I like the intimacy of smaller groups opposed to, particularly mega-churches...

The fact that they are sinners and that the congregation is made up of sinners is irrelevant: we arent supposed to be looking or knowing them after the flesh and neither should they know us after the flesh.

Everyone has committed sin...Some are Forgiven, Some are not, Some are not interested in being Forgiven, Some are.

As for claiming people have not made a heartfelt commitment, its probably something we shouldn't do.

Why not? It's true. And a great deal of Scripture specifically speaks about the Unsaved, the consequences, the Saved, the consequences.

Doing so would clearly be based on what our standards are. Even if it is true, we should be lifting them up and encouraging them; not complaining about them.

Perhaps you confuse "complaining" with "pointing out", "asking their POV', "their solutions" "holding accountable" "admonishing".

Finally, while the Body of Christ is indeed global today, it is called to meet locally in the flesh.

AND? Are you not listening? Meeting in the flesh, is precisely what I said.

That is what happened in the New Testament, and when they did meet it was with leadership. That was the plan Jesus put forth and that's what they did according to the scripture.

AND? Do you have to have a PhD, to be qualified to lead Scripturally? At times when we had friends over, At 3yr old my little son, would ask if everyone would sit and listen to him. He knew his whole toddler bible, would pick a story and "read it" (memorized), then elaborate what he liked about the story, then ask people what they liked about the story.
Eh, 15 min. And perhaps that little mini discussion, would resonate, with individuals after they left to go home.

I could give it to you again, but if you are of the opinion that no scripture is needed, why bother?

What are you talking about....? Utter nonsense. I said no such thing...
What I did say, Scripture IS what we pick, choose, read, discuss.
You are way off base in your comments...

 

[FHII]

It is my view, What Jesus taught, what the Apostles taught, are IN the Scriptures, readily available and at my fingertips.
A Church, a school, a stadium, a home, a field, a boat, a tent; is NOT off limits to gather for a meeting for Speaking the Word of God and Spiritual praise and worship to the Lord God.



AND? They all turned to Jesus FOR knowledge and understanding....
You think the same is not available to me?



And WHY do you somehow think that is "exclusive" to only "churches" ?
I didn't say men were not called. How is that comment relevant?
One of my neighbors who is a Pastor, who has personally visited Israel, lived there on different occasions, with a wealth of very interesting knowledge, visits during some our gatherings. My own mother, before she passed, held a theology degree.
We have traveled all over the US., met people, domestic and foreign, non-church goers interested to meet and hear Biblical knowledge and did so. I've mentored prisoners, read Scripture for the elderly in rest homes, Had a sail boat for several years, and met many people in the marinas, that we fellowshiped with. Had a hundred teen kids at my home every week-end in the summers, playing vollyball, cooking out, and full well knowing there was going to be 'Church" time. Had Deaf kids, meet with us in our home to hear and read scriptures and show up on a whim asking for more about Jesus.
Why you seem to think holding a "church" meeting, outside of a Church is somehow taboo is beyond me.
Personally, I like the intimacy of smaller groups opposed to, particularly mega-churches...



Everyone has committed sin...Some are Forgiven, Some are not, Some are not interested in being Forgiven, Some are.



Why not? It's true. And a great deal of Scripture specifically speaks about the Unsaved, the consequences, the Saved, the consequences.




Perhaps you confuse "complaining" with "pointing out", "asking their POV', "their solutions" "holding accountable" "admonishing".




AND? Are you not listening? Meeting in the flesh, is precisely what I said.




AND? Do you have to have a PhD, to be qualified to lead Scripturally? At times when we had friends over, At 3yr old my little son, would ask if everyone would sit and listen to him. He knew his whole toddler bible, would pick a story and "read it" (memorized), then elaborate what he liked about the story, then ask people what they liked about the story.
Eh, 15 min. And perhaps that little mini discussion, would resonate, with individuals after they left to go home.



What are you talking about....? Utter nonsense. I said no such thing...
What I did say, Scripture IS what we pick, choose, read, discuss.
You are way off base in your comments...

Many people don't understand what a Church is. It is indeed a body of people who gather together, but it can also refer to a building. A Church, school, stadium and home can all be a Church. What makes it a Church is the activity that happens there.

With that in mind, simply because two people on a boat or in a field are talking about Jesus doesn't make it a Church. Its a blessed and beautiful event, but it ain't "Church".

Billy Graham in his final days held a crusade at Raymond James Stadium (home of the Buccaneers). While I may not agree with his doctrine, he had "Church" there. Someone asking a stranger in the hot dog line if they know Jesus isn't Church.

Such sounds more like the work of an evangelist, which is a powerful ministry. However, such a ministry is meant to draw people to Christ. It isn't Church except to establish one.

You can travel the globe talking about Jesus in marinas, homes, stadiums or wherever. That is wonderful, but it is not Church.

For it to be Church you have to go by what Jesus and his Apostles established, and that is in the scriptures.

That is available to all and it tells sheep how to find a proper Church. But aside from the scripture, no... God is not telling sheep anything directly. He gave that task to the Apostles and his chosen men. He tells you through them.

I acknowledge that in rare times God will send a sheep an occasional heads up directly. But its pretty rare in reality. However, it is reported commonly on the internet.

Church as prescribed by the Bible has rules. There is leadership and actually a form of government. There are certain things that happen and certain things that are not supposed to happen. Two or three gathering together and discussing Jesus is a blessing, but it isn't Church according to the Bible.

The qualifications for a Church govt do not require a PhD, but they don't exclude them either. Luke was a doctor and a man of God and part of the ministry, but nit an Apostle. Paul was highly educated in the hebrew law and spoke 3 languages. Peter was a fisherman with no known formal education before his attendance in the finest seminary for 3 years that ever existed.

Throughout this thread I have been exposed to a lot of reasons why people don't like formal an Biblical Church gatherings. Locked doors, sinners in the congregation, sinner preachers, an hour is too long, set times, they don't like large numbers and mega Churches... These complaints (and they are complaints) seem silly to me. Romans 8 gives us a list of things that should not separate us from God....They include things like tribulation, distress, persecution, famine, nakedness, peril and sword (death). But Paul really didn't feel it was necessary to include that the sermon was too long or that sinners were around or that there were licked doors.

Here is what we should realize from these truths:

1. Just because you talk to someone about Jesus doesn't mean you had Church, according to the Bible.
2. Church can happen anywhere but it happens at an appointed time, with an intended purpose and under the authority of a chosen man of God.
3. Going to and fro in the earth to talk about Jesus is a blessing, and if sanctioned by a man of God may be considered an evangelical mission. It is meant yo set up a Church, and whether or not it is Church is subject to debate.
4. A true Church has structure and even a government. Even Jesus's ministry had one.
5. If you ignore these facts, or at least don't even inquire about them to test their validity, you are ignoring scripture. If you do so, you are testifying that they don't really matter.

 

[Taken]

Many people don't understand what a Church is. It is indeed a body of people who gather together, but it can also refer to a building. A Church, school, stadium and home can all be a Church. What makes it a Church is the activity that happens there.

With that in mind, simply because two people on a boat or in a field are talking about Jesus doesn't make it a Church. Its a blessed and beautiful event, but it ain't "Church".

Billy Graham in his final days held a crusade at Raymond James Stadium (home of the Buccaneers). While I may not agree with his doctrine, he had "Church" there. Someone asking a stranger in the hot dog line if they know Jesus isn't Church.

Such sounds more like the work of an evangelist, which is a powerful ministry. However, such a ministry is meant to draw people to Christ. It isn't Church except to establish one.

You can travel the globe talking about Jesus in marinas, homes, stadiums or wherever. That is wonderful, but it is not Church.

For it to be Church you have to go by what Jesus and his Apostles established, and that is in the scriptures.

That is available to all and it tells sheep how to find a proper Church. But aside from the scripture, no... God is not telling sheep anything directly. He gave that task to the Apostles and his chosen men. He tells you through them.

I acknowledge that in rare times God will send a sheep an occasional heads up directly. But its pretty rare in reality. However, it is reported commonly on the internet.

Church as prescribed by the Bible has rules. There is leadership and actually a form of government. There are certain things that happen and certain things that are not supposed to happen. Two or three gathering together and discussing Jesus is a blessing, but it isn't Church according to the Bible.

The qualifications for a Church govt do not require a PhD, but they don't exclude them either. Luke was a doctor and a man of God and part of the ministry, but nit an Apostle. Paul was highly educated in the hebrew law and spoke 3 languages. Peter was a fisherman with no known formal education before his attendance in the finest seminary for 3 years that ever existed.

Throughout this thread I have been exposed to a lot of reasons why people don't like formal an Biblical Church gatherings. Locked doors, sinners in the congregation, sinner preachers, an hour is too long, set times, they don't like large numbers and mega Churches... These complaints (and they are complaints) seem silly to me. Romans 8 gives us a list of things that should not separate us from God....They include things like tribulation, distress, persecution, famine, nakedness, peril and sword (death). But Paul really didn't feel it was necessary to include that the sermon was too long or that sinners were around or that there were licked doors.

Here is what we should realize from these truths:

1. Just because you talk to someone about Jesus doesn't mean you had Church, according to the Bible.
2. Church can happen anywhere but it happens at an appointed time, with an intended purpose and under the authority of a chosen man of God.
3. Going to and fro in the earth to talk about Jesus is a blessing, and if sanctioned by a man of God may be considered an evangelical mission. It is meant yo set up a Church, and whether or not it is Church is subject to debate.
4. A true Church has structure and even a government. Even Jesus's ministry had one.
5. If you ignore these facts, or at least don't even inquire about them to test their validity, you are ignoring scripture. If you do so, you are testifying that they don't really matter.

Thanks for your effort, but don't feel the need of your approval. We do not conduct our Church sessions as a government or a business. I know the difference between testifying, striking up a Scritural conversation with a stranger and a purposed setting to praise and worship the Lord God. When we gather, the number of people, or where...is of no consequence.
The Lord leveled the Temple, it's art work, altar, tore open the vailed holy of holies for a reason....and it wasan't to build another brick, stone and mortar building.

Gal 4
[20] For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

Josh 24:
[15] ... choose you this day whom ye will serve...
but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[LTJMP14]

Jesus is a quoted using the word "ekklesia" three times in Matthew: "And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it." Matthew 16:18; "If they still refuse to listen, tell it to the church; and if they refuse to listen even to the church, treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector." Matthew 18:17.

Ekklesia literally means one's called out. If Jesus spoke Greek (which is likely), then Jesus would have known that He was literally speaking of those that are the called out born again believers.

We see from further scripture in Paul's letters that the ekklesia do indeed meet, and the ekklesia are formed in various places. Paul also calls for management and oversight of the ekklesia, in an attempt that all learn together from elders and preachers.

Whereas Paul was taught and instructed by Jesus and was guided by the Lord in all that he did, Paul's exhortation to not firesake assembling together must be viewed as instruction received by Jesus.

 

[Marymog]

I reference them, you know this but like the RCC you make up straw arguments to claim a win all the time while still failing to refute anything.

Your knowledge is so weak you cannot get off script because then you have no recourse as you demonstrate now.

Dear brother in Christ,

I love you.

 

[Marymog]

I don't live in an ancient historical era, that I can't read, don't have access to Scripture, need to be told what to believe, what to do.

Ummmm.....Being told what to believe is what Scripture is all about kiddo. Jesus told the Apostles what to believe. They then told everyone else what to believe. The Apostles trained other men to go throughout all the world and tell everyone IN THE WORLD what to believe. If anyone taught opposite of what they taught they were false teachers.

You do know all this. Don't you?????