Hello there, I am Jalal, an ex-devout Muslim apologist who was thoroughly and perfectly defeated in debate with Secularists and Christians in the UK. I admitted and acknowledged that. By doing so, the result was complete and objective, thus the mission was fully accomplished. The case was documented and published to be used as an example case study for free thinkers.
A Well-Defeated Muslim Apologist
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Thanks a lot! I am here to support the forum, share experience and learn more about Christianity.
I was a hard-headed Muslim apologists who intentionally attacked Secularists and Christians through debates and vowed to win. I wanted to be a hero of Islam. If I was victorious in my debates with Secularists, I would have exposed the results with excessive use of forums, magazines and social media platforms. In fact, plans were prepared for that. Therefore, it is very fair to treat my case in the same way as I would have treated the Secularists should I have won the debates. Ironically, my plans turned on me and I am applying them on my case.
In the same way Muslim scholars present newly Muslim converts on stage as a proof of their apologetic approach, Secularists and Ex-Muslim societies presented my case as a strong counter example: "A Well-Defeated Muslim Apologist". I will share the publications with you on this thread, but according to the rules of the forum, this is not allowed for new members.
I was a hard-headed Muslim apologists who intentionally attacked Secularists and Christians through debates and vowed to win. I wanted to be a hero of Islam. If I was victorious in my debates with Secularists, I would have exposed the results with excessive use of forums, magazines and social media platforms. In fact, plans were prepared for that. Therefore, it is very fair to treat my case in the same way as I would have treated the Secularists should I have won the debates. Ironically, my plans turned on me and I am applying them on my case.
In the same way Muslim scholars present newly Muslim converts on stage as a proof of their apologetic approach, Secularists and Ex-Muslim societies presented my case as a strong counter example: "A Well-Defeated Muslim Apologist". I will share the publications with you on this thread, but according to the rules of the forum, this is not allowed for new members.
God can and does use scholars, but our education alone will not bring us close to God. If we have more, be it education or material wealth or good opportunities, it means that God requires more from us. Not recognizing this is commonly the reason for so many to fail to please God.
"But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more." Luke 12:48
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seems like that would be welcome enough here? dunno. id be interested though
seems like that would be welcome enough here? dunno. id be interested though
Yes. Thanks.
In fact, the Ex-Muslim society in the UK has published my testimony, if you go to "exmuslim [dot] co [dot] uk" you can read the testimony under my name. It was also shared on their social media platform.
Although there are many ex-Muslim cases, what makes my case different -- according to my opponent debaters -- was the complete setback and failure to fulfil any of my vows to win debates with Secularists and Christians and use contemporary technological tools to spread the results. Interestingly, the contemporary technological tools were also used to spread the results, perhaps not the results that I wanted in the first place!
Welcome Jalal,
Jesus Is the Truth, And there is no defeating the Truth. I Hope you find The Truth and will be able to Stand On Him Alone. Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.(John 14:6)
Thanks David for your nice message. Yes, indeed.
I have learnt the lesson and I am a servant for the Christian community.
Thanks! It was published here: "exmuslim [dot] co [dot] uk" under my name.
If you don't mind a question, what exactly does that statement mean?
Have you acknowledged and accepted that Jesus is the living Son of God and there is no other name under heaven by which Salvation can be attained and you have accepted His forgiveness and your name is written in the book of life?
Or does it mean something else?
Thanks for the question. To explain the statement:
I have limited knowledge about Christianity, in fact, that was the reason behind my defeat in debates with Christians. However, both Christians and secularists decided not to present my case as as normal convert from Islam. Because this will paint a false picture of who I was, since I was not neutral and seeking the truth by doing my research. But rather, I was a hard-headed Muslim apologist who intentionally attacked secularists and Christians through debates and vowed to win. Therefore, my case was presented with emphasise on being defeated and deflated from my faith rather than an ordinary convert to Christianity. That is, we want to make it clear that I was not able to defend my faith -- and this is the lesson to be learnt.
I was logically defeated on all Islamic axes by strong secular and Christian arguments. They answered all my questions and I could not answer any of their questions. I admitted the full decisive defeat. The secularists debaters described the case as fantastic and wonderful. They said that the beauty of it is that it is an example of how Islam can flog itself. Some pointed out that should the debate between Mr Deedat and Rev. Anis Shorrosh (Christian apologist) in South Africa continued, it would have probably ended with a similar result, since it was apparent that Mr Shorrosh was winning, but before the debate was finished the Muslims attacked the stage.
Thank you,
I take that as you acknowledge an academic defeat that got you thinking. That's a good first step.
Now, have you been introduced to Jesus Christ as the only begotten Living Son of God who died for the sins of man and was resurrected in the flesh and is risen and is the only name given from heaven to man by which salvation can be attained?
If you have, have you accepted the Free gift of salvation and your name is written in the book of life?
If you have any further question or debate on either of those, let me know
Yes, indeed it is a full defeat. I am still learning about Christianity but indeed not debating.
All behaviour is learned, from the time we were toddlers and through adulthood. I mean, faith, religion, what we think, how we behave, etc. All have been taught either from those around us in different forms and aspects. That is we, are all truly products of our environment.
That being said, virtually anything can go from taboo to normal. On average, it takes more than two months before a new behaviour becomes automatic -- 66 days to be exact -- before what was odd or new becomes a habit. The mind can be changed either through force, traumatic circumstances or simply by the person in question wanting to change. Normal can be adhering to Islamic practices: doing prayers on time, performing Friday prayer, fasting on certain days, reciting and honouring the Quran, not supporting Churches, walking by them, entering them, etc. But, normal can also be the opposite. Do not accept normal as something set in stone. The only thing holding you back from achieving the life you're meant to live, is you.
To that end, I am following a schedule that helps me to get over my old habits. This is basically a set of activities that challenge these habits to make sure that my change is permanent. This is strictly managed by my supervisors. Examples of activities that get me over the edge are: eating haram food, make sure there is no fasting during Ramadan or other certain Islamic days were Muslims fast, intentionally reserving Friday prayer time slots for non-Islamic activities, also, if there is a non-Islamic event, work, meeting, etc, we try our best to make it on Friday. I also work as a volunteer Church sitter, where I clean the Church sanctuary in preparation for its next use for Sunday worship (and occasionally for other events); carrying out the tasks specified by the cleaning schedule and assigned by the Church management.
I know full well the environment and conditions you are in and were raised- spend many years over in various areas. That's why I'm talking to you now. You have shown great courage and I honor that.
All the things you are implementing are very good first steps but they are all of the flesh- I am focusing directly on your spirit.
In your heart and conscious mind, do you know and acknowledge exactly who Jesus Christ is and what he has done and have you accepted that truth?
If your answer is anything other that a yes with no reservations then i would like to have a discussion with you and introduce you to some new habits and beliefs too.
No. So please feel free to introduce/teach me some of these new habits and beliefs, and I promise to adhere to them, you can also give me homeworks and I will submit them on time. Thank you in advance.
Very well, you honor me with the opportunity to present the truth to you.
Lets please start at the beginning. ( 2 parter here)
In your own words, who do you believe the son of the carpenter Jesus is as a person(human) and as a representative of God?
As an attachment to the question above, do you fully realize and accept that the God of Creation and Allah are not the same being?
Please tell me your full understanding of both. It is best we start at the very beginning so no stone is unturned and no important detail left out.
Thank you.
And I will be your obedient servant.
Please keep in mind that my background is Islamic and I have little knowledge about Christianity as understood by you. So, you might find some answers strange and do not conform with your doctrine, if that happened please note that I am not trying to insult your faith, I highly respect Christianity, serve the Christian community, honour and clean Churches.
The first answer: up to my knowledge Jesus (PBUH) is a messenger of God (Allah), a human being and had no sons. All messengers of God (Allah) were given the same message to humanity.
The second answer: in my doctrine there is only one God (Allah) and God (Allah) is the creator of everything.
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