The problem with the thousand years?

[Truth7t7]

The one thousand is a symbolic portrayal of a long period of time.
Example;
Psalm 50:10 KJV
[10] For every beast of the forest is mine, and the cattle upon a thousand hills.
Does this mean all the other hills in the world are not His?

I Agree 100% (Uncertain Affinity)

The Greek word "Chilioi" was used in 2 Peter 3:8 and in Revelation 20:1-7

The definition is (Uncertain Affinity) not a literal thousand years on this earth as many claim

Strong’s Definitions
χίλιοι chílioi, khil'-ee-oy; plural of uncertain affinity; a thousand:—thousand.

KJV Translation Count — Total: 11x
The KJV translates Strong's G5507 in the following manner: thousand (11x).

Thousand = Uncertain Affinity

2 Peter 3:8KJV
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Revelation 20:1-7KJV
1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

 

[Brakelite]

The one thousand is a symbolic portrayal of a long period of time.
Example;
Psalm 50:10 KJV
[10] For every beast of the forest is mine, and the cattle upon a thousand hills.
Does this mean all the other hills in the world are not His?

That's funny. When prophecy mentions AP period of time in an unusual way such as 1260 days, or 42 months, 2300 days, 70 weeks, everyone says it's literal. Then you say 1000 years, and it's symbolic? No wonder there's so much confusion.

 

[Truth7t7]

That's funny. When prophecy mentions AP period of time in an unusual way such as 1260 days, or 42 months, 2300 days, 49 weeks, everyone says it's literal. Then you say 1000 years, and it's symbolic? No wonder there's so much confusion.

When you have (The Souls) and (The Dead) in Revelation 20:4-6, where do you suppose they are, at McDonald's in a Millennial Kingdom, smiles

They are in the spiritual realm with Jesus, their bodies are dead

One day is a thousand years in this spiritual realm of the dead in Christ, no literal earthly time

 

[Zao is life]

Summary of the debate, for approximately two pages.

your a liar.
No I’m not your the liar!
Stop calling me a liar or I’m gonna tell!
Well you are a liar.
No your the liar!

what a debate.

Yep. Truth 7t7 really was on a roll with that false accusation. Now a clown has decided to pick up where that left off and start another whole ridiculous "debate" about nothing.

The circus must go on.

 

[Waiting on him]

You're contradicting Jesus, twice: once in His statement to Pilate, and once in His statement in the Revelaiton. You're also contradicting the apostle who wrote the book of Hebrews.

My question to you would be, why are you contradicting or second guessing Jesus?

PS Heaven is wherever God is. Where is God? Is He not omnipresent?

When you have (The Souls) and (The Dead) in Revelation 20:4-6, where do you suppose they are, at McDonald's in a Millennial Kingdom, smiles

They are in the spiritual realm with Jesus, their bodies are dead

One day is a thousand years in this spiritual realm of the dead in Christ, no literal earthly time

The reason we see their souls there. Is because they took part in the first resurrection, which is the passing from death to life. It is a spiritual resurrection, but don’t marvel as Jesus said, at the end there’s gonna be another resurrection, where those who are dead will be raised to condemnation.

 

[amadeus]

The one thousand is a symbolic portrayal of a long period of time.
Example;
Psalm 50:10 KJV
[10] For every beast of the forest is mine, and the cattle upon a thousand hills.
Does this mean all the other hills in the world are not His?

And hearing that then let us also remember that the grandfather of Noah, Methuselah with the most years accounted to him in written scripture came up short not making it beyond the flood:

"And Methuselah lived an hundred eighty and seven years, and begat Lamech:
And Methuselah lived after he begat Lamech seven hundred eighty and two years, and begat sons and daughters:
And all the days of Methuselah were nine hundred sixty and nine years: and he died." Gen 5:25-27

 

[amadeus]

That's funny. When prophecy mentions AP period of time in an unusual way such as 1260 days, or 42 months, 2300 days, 49 weeks, everyone says it's literal. Then you say 1000 years, and it's symbolic? No wonder there's so much confusion.

Could it not be both? How clearly does any one of us see?

 

[Waiting on him]

Matthew 12:28-29 KJV
[28] But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you. [29] Or else how can one enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house.

 

[Zao is life]

The reason we see their souls there. Is because they took part in the first resurrection, which is the passing from death to life. It is a spiritual resurrection, but don’t marvel as Jesus said, at the end there’s gonna be another resurrection, where those who are dead will be raised to condemnation.

Every single verse in the New Testament talking about the resurrection is talking about the resurrection of the body (soma), in the day it is raised a spiritual body, without exception. Here's the list of all the verses:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1gYTKhO_bxFBrxHaXEWaQYlgXBYyfPAkD/view

When Jesus tells us about the birth from above when we are born again, He does not use the words resurrection and rising again. He uses the words for birth and "from above."

The idea of a spiritual "resurrection" is well known, and the assumption is always made that it's in the New Testament, but it's not in the New Testament, anywhere that the resurrection is spoken of. The "spiritual resurrection" that you have just claimed is manufactured in the factory of Amillennialism.

 

[Brakelite]

Could it not be both? How clearly does any one of us see?

The sure word of prophecy. (With the appropriate edit to the original post you quoted lol) “Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy Holy City.... Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for Himself.... And He shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week He shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease.”
Sure identity of the Messiah. Symbolic time, 70 weeks=490 years.

 

[Zao is life]

Matthew 12:28-29 KJV
[28] But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you. [29] Or else how can one enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house.

Jesus spoke those words when after casting out demons, the Pharisees accused him of casting out demons by the power of the prince of the demons. He did not cast Satan out of the world when He cast demons out of individuals - Satan was cast out of heaven and to the earth when he was defeated by the cross, and since then his war is against you and me and all who are "the rest of the woman's seed who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ". The gospel encroaches on the kingdom of the one who is called "the god of this world, who blinds the minds of them that do not believe", and because gates are defensive structures, "the gates of hell do not prevail against the Kingdom of Christ" which is in the word but not of this world.

Satan will be bound later. He is not bound now, though Christ has the power to bind him.

 

[amadeus]

The sure word of prophecy. (With the appropriate edit to the original post you quoted lol) “Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy Holy City.... Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for Himself.... And He shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week He shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease.”
Sure identity of the Messiah. Symbolic time, 70 weeks=490 years.

My point was simply that on some things both the literal and symbolic may be both there in one events in the scriptures.

For example in reading the OT we can sometimes understand the story of men actually living the events described and how their experiences with God or without Him affected them. But... then in the same story often [always?] there may be an underlying message for you or me from God.

My way of approaching the scripture things has changed over the years toward more trying to focus on where the Spirit leads me at the moment. Is that different than where my mind sometimes wants to go? I believe it is so for most believers.

Until our mind on everything is equal to His mind, we are still in a measure double-minded. When we switch over to the carnal way even for a moment, we are in trouble. Some may deny that, but I have yet to see a person who is not at times, in a measure, double-minded, but as long as I am ever doing the same thing how can I be sure that my vision of a person seen was accurate?

Any true believer, I believe, at times is single minded in purpose and action with God, but how many stay always on the Lord's side in every moment of every day? Who is never ever quenching the Spirit of God in himself and effectively for a moment or longer pursuing his own way instead of God's?

Consider the promises to natural Israel, the physical people described in much of the OT and how many of the content of those same promises has some application to the Church in the NT or now?

I haver never specifically studied the 1,000 years, but I have noticed in passing on other subjects or in simply reading the Bible what I mentioned in my previous posts. No physical man has lived 1,000 years... Do you not believe that it could relate to the 1,000 years mentioned in your discussion from in the Book of Revelation?

 

[Timtofly]

You misrepresent my claim, I post satan isnt bound from general evil in the world presently, hes bound from deceiving the nations to battle, why do you misrepresent my claim below in bold red?

Many That Promote Millennialism Falsely Teach, Satan Cant Be Presently Bound Because Evil Exist In The World?

Satan Is Presently Bound As Is Clearly Seen In (Revelation) 20:7-8 That Interprets (Deceive The Nations) Is To Battle, Not General Evil In The World Presently.

Why are nations still fighting each other? Was Satan bound after the last 2 World Wars? Did the UN bind Satan, to try to stop nations from attacking each other?

 

[Timtofly]

Strong’s Definitions
χίλιοι chílioi, khil'-ee-oy; plural of uncertain affinity; a thousand:—thousand.

KJV Translation Count — Total: 11x
The KJV translates Strong's G5507 in the following manner: thousand (11x).

Now the Millennium is a thousand thousand years long?

You went from no Millennium to a thousand thousand year Millennium.

Pretty sure the word is not plural, but singular how John wrote it.

 

[Marty fox]

Well let's just leave it at what we agree on. Going into a debate about the millennium and whether or not Christ's Kingdom is in this world but not of this world, and whether or not it will ever be of this world is not something I'm too keen on because I already almost torpedo'd @Marty fox 's thread. and today at least, I don't want to deabte more than one person at a time about it

I have a say that This thread hasn’t been torpedoed

 

[Timtofly]

Thousand = Uncertain Affinity

A thousand: thousand = uncertain affinity

A thousand = 1000

A plural thousand: thousand meaning multiple thousands or thousands of thousands exponentially. It is not just 2000. It is the plural form of thousands. It would be more like our million. In fact the army that was 200 million is is the counting of humans, but using the Greek word "myriads".

The difference is at that time they knew that humans could number in the millions, but years only in the thousands. John would have never written plural thousand thousand for years. So your Millennium cannot be a million years long = uncertain affinity. BTW affinity means love or relationship (to border, having a common relationship). The plural of thousand when it comes to years is uncertain (without borders). It is a very obscure way of saying eternal, but using this Greek word. If this is your way of saying indefinite, you have lengthened the Millennium to as far as it could ever go. Even longer than creation itself.

 

[Zao is life]

A thousand: thousand = uncertain affinity

A thousand = 1000

A plural thousand: thousand meaning multiple thousands or thousands of thousands exponentially. It is not just 2000. It is the plural form of thousands. It would be more like our million. In fact the army that was 200 million is is the counting of humans, but using the Greek word "myriads".

The difference is at that time they knew that humans could number in the millions, but years only in the thousands. John would have never written plural thousand thousand for years. So your Millennium cannot be a million years long = uncertain affinity. BTW affinity means love or relationship (to border, having a common relationship). The plural of thousand when it comes to years is uncertain (without borders). It is a very obscure way of saying eternal, but using this Greek word. If this is your way of saying indefinite, you have lengthened the Millennium to as far as it could ever go. Even longer than creation itself.

Yes. Let's get back to the dictionary and what it actually says:

Whenever it can, as a rule the Strong's Greek Dictionary gives other Greek words that are related to the word you are looking at. "Of uncertain affinity" means " it is not certain which other Greek word or words this word is related to".

A thousand is a unit (one unit) times a thousand, so it's automatically the plural of the unit. So the Strong's Greek Dictionary is telling us the obvious: that chílioi is the plural of a unit (one unit) because it's a unit (one unit) times a thousand (one thousand), and then just in case anyone's confused, Strong's tells us what chílioi means: It means a thousand, or thousand. It does not mean the plural of a thousand, it means the plural of a unit (a unit times a thousand).

We can't change the meaning of the words "a thousand" and "thousand" in the Strong's definition of the word chílioi just because we would like the definition to mean "plural of a thousand".

[*StrongsGreek*] 05507
χίλιοι chílioi, khil'-ee-oy plural of uncertain affinity;
a thousand:--thousand.

If that's what you were saying, I agree with you.

 

[Timtofly]

The reason we see their souls there. Is because they took part in the first resurrection, which is the passing from death to life. It is a spiritual resurrection, but don’t marvel as Jesus said, at the end there’s gonna be another resurrection, where those who are dead will be raised to condemnation.

John used the term "souls" twice and consistently as "them folks". The "souls of them" is then given a description to identify "them folks". John was literally saying them folks, not that he actually saw souls.


"And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:"

"And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years."

This is not just seeing dead people. This is seeing two particular groups of humans. If John had not described how they died, and just said, "I see souls", you all would have a point. But you cannot just take the word out of context and define that context by a single word.

Besides Paul said in other Scripture: 2 Corinthians 5:1-3

"For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven: If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked."

Paul claims that in Paradise we are not naked souls. We have a permanent incorruptible physical body. Open up your spiritual eyes, oh souls of them posters in this thread. Stop limiting your view to corruptible fleshly eyes.

Also John had to define that these souls had literally died. But John was not limiting what was described as their reward to only those who had died.

Placing these two events in context should be enough to point out they are two separate events, even though many want to use these verses as being similar enough to claim the same event and then rearrange Revelation to fit this false theory.

 

[Marty fox]

Okay is seams that nobody actually understands my view so I will lay it out for you in point forum

The thousand year reigning is symbolic of the church age.

The new heaven and the new earth is in the future

Read post numbers 43 & 56 to see that the reigning and the binding ends at different times so the reigning isn’t because of the binding because Jesus reigns because He is God not because satan is bound.

The binding of satan is only mentioned from deceiving the nations.

According to the bible on the day of Pentecost the church grew from a room full of people to over 3000 people in one day of Jews from every nation under heaven.

These Jews then went back to every nation under heaven and spread the gospel.

Paul states 4 times in the bible that the gospel has spread though out the whole known world during his days which was about twenty to thirty years from the day of Pentecost and this is before fast travel phones and the internet. This is the perfect description of satan being bound by deceiving the nations.

Don’t bother trying to debate what the world exactly is I,m using the same words that the bible uses

The deceiving by satan being bound is by the power (the great chain)of the gospel as the gospel reveals who Jesus is and how He saves all that believes in Him.

So yes satan can still deceive those who reject the gospel and yes he can still be bound by deceiving the nations and still persecute the church and do evil at the same time because it’s not physical binding it’s spiritual which is more powerful and matters way more

The truth in this is the result which is that the church grew form a room full of Jews to millions of people from all nations being saved which is why we on this web site today are saved

If you don’t agree with me that’s fine and your choice but I choose to believe in the results of what the gospel has done

It’s not just about events the reigning and the binding is a message to the church

 

[Ronald Nolette]

If so then what would be your interpretation of post #43 & 56

Maybe! It is all a question of timing of events not specifically laid out. Those verses are true as written and happen at the end of the thousand years the first resurrected reign with christ!.

It will take time for all the events at teh end of the thousand years so I do not believe they will happen exactly 1,000 years after.