Do you accept this a Biblical fact or fiction?:

[Ronald Nolette]

Another abuse of language, TWISTED NOT’s.

Scripture says NOT and you read ‘is equal to God’ and then ‘is God.’

No- read itr as it is written, He did not consider it wrong to be called god.

6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

See that conforms to what God inspired John to write in John 5:
John 5:18
Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.

Jesus is god- He is not His Father who is also God. He is not above His Father, His Father is above HIm, but they are both equally divine or god!

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Of course you have to invoke a contradiction. If a lion is coming toward us, one does not have to say a creature in the form of a lion.

Such twisted thinking has to be used to rationalize what is not there. Nowhere does Scripture say Jesus is God incarnate.

It only appears twisted to those who are novices in understanding how words are used! You are just mad because God didn't make it easy by always saying Father when referring ot God the Father, and Son when referring ot God the son.

It is you who have com eup with all sorts of twisted logic to deny that Jesus is called Jehovah in Isaiah 44,
He is called God in John 1
He is equal to God in John 5
He existed in the nature of God in Phil 2 before HIs incarnation
He3 is Emmanuel- God who is with us.
He is God manifest in the flesh
He is the first and the last
He is the almighty.

all these are in the word of God and without dispute. For whatever reason you can't acknoweledge these truths.

 

[Abaxvahl]

LOL. Trinitarians cannot accept the trinity is not in the Bible - not the word and not the doctrine. ‘For us, there is one God, the Father.’ 1 Corinthians 8:6. A stronger anti-trinitarian statement is hard to imagine.

How is that an anti-Trinitarian statement? Does not the Nicene Creed recited every Sunday say "I believe in one God, the Father Almighty, maker of Heaven and earth, of all things visible and invisible"? Surely you think that the Creed is Trinitarian though.

 

[michaelvpardo]

(Jeremiah 10:10) . . .Jehovah is truly God. He is the living God . . .

Concerning Jesus:
(Matthew 16:16) . . .“You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”

Nothing in scripture actually says that Yah havah is the Father of our Lord, but rather Jesus identified Himself as Yah havah in the gospels in those verses referred to as the great I Ams.

 

[tigger 2]

Nolette #199:

Deuteronomy 6:4
King James Version

4 Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord:

This is a very curious statement for God to say. Why would He have to say He is only one ? And why did He use the ordinal Yachid instead of the cardinal echad?
.........................................
The Hebrew writer of Deut. 6:4 used echad. In fact, none of the many uses of “one” for God in the Hebrew OT are are yachid! Actually check it out for once. If you don't have access to concordances and interlinears, let me know.

yachid.html (hebrew-streams.org

You really need to check out your sources for the many erroneous statements you make. Find several noted scholarly sources who are as objective as possible.

 

[tigger 2]

I Am
michaelvpardo, please go back to post #39 and read it carefully.

 

[marks]

that Jesus is called Jehovah in Isaiah 44,

And Zechariah 14.

Much love!

 

[marks]

He3 is Emmanuel- God who is with us.

Hard to get around this one!

Much love!

 

[marks]

What I am saying is that I am posting my posts in Bible study forum. That means that if it is in the Bible, it is acceptable to post.

Forum Terms & Rules

Please take a moment to review these rules detailed below. If you register at Christianity Board, you are providing your assent to these rules.

The below clearly outlines the core, closed-handed, and Christian orthodox issues that we expect members of Christianity Board to uphold. We accept that this declaration essentially defines Christianity for Christianity Board. Disagreement with the below, we believe, places one outside the realm of reasonable orthodox Christianity.

We believe that God is the Creator, Sustainer, and Ruler of the universe. We attest that God has eternally existed in three persons: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. These three are co-equal and are one God.

I'm curious how carefully you read, and how well your reading comprehension allows a full understanding. That will apply in the Bible, and in this post. The above is quoted from the board rules and statement of faith.

Do you believe your posts teaching against the deity of Jesus Christ conform to the statement and intent of the board policy as shown above?

Much love!

 

[tigger 2]

Hard to get around this one! [Emmanuel]

Much love[/COLOR]!

Immanuel

Should Jesus really be considered to be God because he was symbolically “named” Immanuel (Is. 7:14; Mt. 1:23) which means “God is with us”? No more so than Gabriel was calling himself God when he visited Mary and declared: “The Lord is with thee” - Luke 1:28. Nor did Zacharias mean that John the Baptizer (his new son) was actually God when he was asked, “I wonder what this child [John] will turn out to be?”, and he answered, “Praise the Lord, the God of Israel, for he has come to visit his people and has redeemed them.” - Luke 1:66-68, LB.

Gabriel and Zacharias (Zechariah) meant exactly what Israelites have meant throughout thousands of years when saying “God is with us” and similar statements. They meant “God has favored us” or “God is helping us”! - Gen. 21:22; Ex. 18:19; Nu. 23:21; josh. 1:9; 1 Chron. 17:2; 2 chron. 1:1; 35:21; ezra 1:3; is. 8:10. And Joshua 1:17; 1 Samuel 10:7; 2 Chron. 15:2-4, 9 (cf., Jer. 1:8; Haggai 1:13). But if we insist on trinitarian-type “proof,” then Gabriel must have meant that he (Gabriel) is God! And Zacharias (whose own name means ‘Jehovah is renowned’ - p. 678, TDOTB) must have meant that John the Baptizer is God! – Also see 1 Sam. 17:37; 2 Sam. 14:17; 1 Ki. 8:57; 1 Chron. 17:2; 22:18; 2 Chron. 36:23; Is. 41:10; Amos 5:14; Zech 8:23. (Also see “Immanuel” in the Insight books.)

This understanding is seen throughout the Bible. For example, “But if all prophesy, and an unbeliever or outsider enters, he is convicted by all, he is called to account by all, the secrets of his heart are disclosed; and so, falling on his face, he will worship God and declare that God is really among you.” - 1 Corinthians 14:24-25, RSV.

Or, in a Psalm many of us apply to ourselves or our friends:

4 Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil; for thou art with me - ASV.

 

[charity]

(Jeremiah 10:10) . . .Jehovah is truly God. He is the living God . . .

Concerning Jesus:
(Matthew 16:16) . . .“You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”

'While the Pharisees were gathered together,
Jesus asked them, Saying,
.. "What think ye of Christ?
.... whose son is he? "
They say unto Him, "The Son of David."
He saith unto them,
.. "How then doth David in spirit call Him Lord, saying,
.... The LORD said unto my Lord,
...... Sit thou on My right hand,
........ till I make thine enemies Thy footstool?
.......... If David then call Him Lord, how is He his son?
And no man was able to answer Him a word,
neither durst any man from that day forth ask Him any more questions.'
(Mat 22:41-46)

* See Luke 20:46, Acts 2:34-36 and Psalm 110:1.

 

[marks]

Should Jesus really be considered to be God because he was symbolically “named” Immanuel (Is. 7:14; Mt. 1:23) which means “God is with us”?[3] No more so than Gabriel was calling himself God when he visited Mary and declared: “The Lord is with thee” - Luke 1:28.

Both were true. The LORD was in fact with Mary. Gabriel wasn't saying he was the LORD Who is with Mary. But the LORD was in fact with Mary, I'm certain of it. Just as Jesus is Emmanuel, God with us.

Much love!

 

[marks]

he will worship God and declare that God is really among

I think the point here is that God really IS among those who prophesy rightly.

Much love!

 

[amadeus]

I'm curious how carefully you read, and how well your reading comprehension allows a full understanding. That will apply in the Bible, and in this post. The above is quoted from the board rules and statement of faith.

Do you believe your posts teaching against the deity of Jesus Christ conform to the statement and intent of the board policy as shown above?

Much love!

Please leave this question with the moderators where it belongs. I know that I and a few others here would be gone if the moderators were as strict as you seem to want then to be on what is OK and what is not.

I have never supported the Trinity doctrine and I have long had serious questions with regard to the deity of Jesus as most people believe it. How can anyone ever learn the truth through another person if they are not allowed to discuss the issues freely and state their beliefs on the issues openly?

Discuss the issues, but, please, do not attempt to change or define the forum rules! Again... leave that to the moderators.

 

[marks]

Please leave this question with the moderators where it belongs. I know that I and a few others here would be gone if the moderators were as strict as you seem to want then to be on what is OK and what is not.

I have never supported the Trinity doctrine and I have long had serious questions with regard to the deity of Jesus as most people believe it. How can anyone ever learn the truth through another person if they are not allowed to discuss the issues freely and state their beliefs on the issues openly?

Discuss the issues, but, please, do not attempt to change or define the forum rules! Again... leave that to the moderators.

I just bring reminder of the forum rules. You aren't actively promoting against trinitarian doctrine. You don't support it, and you've explained your thinking to me, I don't have an issue with you. You're not out there actively campaigning against this doctrine.

I know there is leeway given in discussion, but I also know this site is not intended to be a forum for anti-trinitarian indoctrination, which is what a few are engaged in.

Truth be told, if he had simply acknowledged that he knew the rules and didn't care, I wouldn't have pursued it. I'm not going to keep after this. I know I can report him if I want.

If there were an appropriate place on a Trinitarian board to say, "leave it alone", I should think it's the guy who posts thread after thread after thread for the singular purpose of refuting a core doctrine of his hosting site.

Much love!

 

[charity]

(Jeremiah 10:10) . . .Jehovah is truly God. He is the living God . . .

Concerning Jesus:
(Matthew 16:16) . . .“You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”

'And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth;
and the heavens are the works of thine hands:
They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment;
And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed:
but Thou art the same, and Thy years shall not fail.'
(Heb 1:10-12)

'Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.'
(Heb 13:8)

Hello @Robert Gwin,

If He Who created all things is God, and if He Who created all things is the Lord Jesus Christ, then we have established the doctrine of His Deity. Another passage which teaches this same truth is that of Colossians 1:13 and Colossians 1:15, 'the Image; and 'the Firstborn of all creation', and then proceeds to explain: 'For by Him were all things created' (Colossians 1:16).

In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[marks]

If He Who created all things is God, and if He Who created all things is the Lord Jesus Christ, then we have established the doctrine of His Deity. Another passage which teaches this same truth is that of Colossians 1:13 and verse 15, the Image and the Firstborn of all creation, and then proceeds to explain: 'For by Him were all things created' (Colossians 1:16).

In Christ Jesus
Chris

You'd think this should settle the question!

Much love!

 

[amadeus]

I just bring reminder of the forum rules. You aren't actively promoting against trinitarian doctrine. You don't support it, and you've explained your thinking to me, I don't have an issue with you. You're not out there actively campaigning against this doctrine.

I know there is leeway given in discussion, but I also know this site is not intended to be a forum for anti-trinitarian indoctrination, which is what a few are engaged in.

Truth be told, if he had simply acknowledged that he knew the rules and didn't care, I wouldn't have pursued it. I'm not going to keep after this. I know I can report him if I want.

If there were an appropriate place on a Trinitarian board to say, "leave it alone", I should think it's the guy who posts thread after thread after thread for the singular purpose of refuting a core doctrine of his hosting site.

Much love!

I was on a forum once years ago where everything was more open even than it is here. There were some who wanted to change it.

Eventually the forum was acquired by new owners and the rules were changed in favor of those supporting rule interpretations similar to yours.

I was one of the oldest members there, but my seniority meant nothing. The rules were changed and because I would not confirm my full belief in their written "statement of faith" I along with a few other unwilling to compromise were changed from "Christian" members to "other".

Suddenly I was unable to post on most of the sub-forums which were for "Christians" only. I am still technically a member there and on many other forums, but I come to this one only regularly because of the interaction allowed here.

Remember what it means to learn and what it means to grow. God never changes, but you and I must change as we are led by God to do so. How many beliefs do you hold or do I hold that are absolutely correct and not even God can change them?

What if the Catholic Church has many things right?
What if the Mormons are just as right about God as most of the main stream Protestant churches?
What if the Trinity is wrong?
What if Jesus is not a God or a part of God equal to the Father?
What if no one regularly quenched the Spirit of God?
What if...?

I won't continue with that kind of questions here, but I hope you understand what I mean. Learning and growing mean changing? Quenching the Spirit hinders, stifles or completely prevents change. Where is God in that?

 

[Abaxvahl]

I was on a forum once years ago where everything was more open even than it is here. There were some who wanted to change it.

Eventually the forum was acquired by new owners and the rules were changed in favor of those supporting rule interpretations similar to yours.

I was one of the oldest members there, but my seniority meant nothing. The rules were changed and because I would not confirm my full belief in their written "statement of faith" I along with a few other unwilling to compromise were changed from "Christian" members to "other".

Suddenly I was unable to post on most of the sub-forums which were for "Christians" only. I am still technically a member there and on many other forums, but I come to this one only regularly because of the interaction allowed here.

Remember what it means to learn and what it means to grow. God never changes, but you and I must change as we are led by God to do so. How many beliefs do you hold or do I hold that are absolutely correct and not even God can change them?

What if the Catholic Church has many things right?
What if the Mormons are just as right about God as most of the main stream Protestant churches?
What if the Trinity is wrong?
What if Jesus is not a God or a part of God equal to the Father?
What if no one regularly quenched the Spirit of God?
What if...?

I won't continue with that kind of questions here, but I hope you understand what I mean. Learning and growing mean changing? Quenching the Spirit hinders, stifles or completely prevents change. Where is God in that?

As Chesterton said the point of an open mind is to close it again on something solid. The Lord God did not say to converse and learn from those wanting Israel to go to other gods they had not known, but instead said Deuteronomy 13:6-11.

 

[amadeus]

As Chesterton said the point of an open mind is to close it again on something solid. The Lord God did not say to converse and learn from those wanting Israel to go to other gods they had not known, but instead said Deuteronomy 13:6-11.

We live for God by faith, not by knowledge although many act on certain points as if knowledge was essential and that they have it! Who has all knowledge, but God alone?

What is important to man? What is important to God?

"Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith." Habakkuk 2:4

"For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith." Rom 1:17

"And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing." I Cor 13:2