Here is what it all comes down to—- and you’d better get it right!

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Ferris Bueller

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It is not about what I believe.

It is about your answer to my question whether it is possible for God to fail or not, in achieving His purpose in disciplining His children whom He had created anew in Christ Jesus.

Tong
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As long as they believe and remain in his care, God will succeed in conforming them to the image of His Son.
 

Tong2020

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As long as they believe and remain in his care, God will succeed in conforming them to the image of His Son.

Clearly then in what you say, God’s failure or success in conforming those whom God created anew in Christ Jesus depends on the person’s believing and remaining to believe. I get that. Though I believe God never fails to bring about and achieve His purposes.

Besides, what you say there renders God’s predestination of those whom God had created anew in Christ Jesus to be conformed to the image of Jesus Christ, as though such predestination isn’t really a predestination.

Tong
R4198
 

Ferris Bueller

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Besides, what you say there renders God’s predestination of those whom God had created anew in Christ Jesus to be conformed to the image of Jesus Christ, as though such predestination isn’t really a predestination.
The goal is what is predestined, not who achieves that goal. That's what Calvinists can't understand.
 
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Tong2020

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You mean 'unbelievers'. They love your gospel. They can remain in their old, unsaved lives and be saved at the same time! It's the greatest story ever told!
Nope. No true Christian remains unchanged by God. They were created anew in Christ Jesus by God. The new creature in Christ Jesus, God had predestined to be conformed to the image of Jesus Christ. So that, one who remains unchanged and remains practicing sin is surely not one created anew by God in Christ Jesus. For as I pointed out, if he is, his destiny is to be conformed in the image of Jesus Christ.

Tong
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Tong2020

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The goal is what is predestined, not who achieves that goal. That's what Calvinists can't understand.
Perhaps predestination of God means to you as not predestination after all.

What my God had predestined, He will bring about and make to come to pass. My God does not fail to achieve His goals and purposes, much less the things that He had predestined and revealed.

Tong
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Ferris Bueller

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No true Christian remains unchanged by God. They were created anew in Christ Jesus by God. The new creature in Christ Jesus, God had predestined to be conformed to the image of Jesus Christ. So that, one who remains unchanged and remains practicing sin is surely not one created anew by God in Christ Jesus. For as I pointed out, if he is, his destiny is to be conformed in the image of Jesus Christ.
Which is why the Bible tells us to keep believing. You have to be believing in order to have all this. People who fall away don't get to remain in God's curriculum of being conformed to the image of Christ. You have to keep believing for that to happen.
 

Ferris Bueller

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What my God had predestined, He will bring about and make to come to pass. My God does not fail to achieve His goals and purposes, much less the things that He had predestined.
I agree. That's why we should make sure we remain among those for whom the goal and purpose is fulfilled.
 

Tong2020

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No true Christian remains unchanged by God. They were created anew in Christ Jesus by God. The new creature in Christ Jesus, God had predestined to be conformed to the image of Jesus Christ. So that, one who remains unchanged and remains practicing sin is surely not one created anew by God in Christ Jesus. For as I pointed out, if he is, his destiny is to be conformed in the image of Jesus Christ.
Which is why the Bible tells us to keep believing. You have to be believing in order to have all this. People who fall away don't get to remain in God's curriculum of conforming them into the image of Christ. You have to keep believing for that to happen.
Yes the bible says to keep believing. It is more of a reminder, not a condition that one should do to get himself saved nor for him to accomplish anything nor to not make God’s purposes, goal, predestination be a failure.

Do you really and truly believe in your heart that God would fail in achieving any of His set goals, purposes, and predestinations? Is that really how you see God, one who can be a failure?

Can you sincerely say with your own mouth and confess that “God is a God who allows Himself to fail in achieving some of His set goals, purposes, and in bringing about some of what He had predestined to happen? I do not believe you could and you would. Or am I wrong to believe so?

Tong
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Tong2020

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I agree. That's why we should make sure we remain among those for whom the goal and purpose is fulfilled.
Well, in your view, perhaps God will thank you because you made sure you remained among those for whom the goal and purpose is fulfilled, that concerning you, He will not fail or not be a failure.

Tong
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Ferris Bueller

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Well, in your view, perhaps God will thank you because you made sure you remained among those for whom the goal and purpose is fulfilled, that concerning you, He will not fail or not be a failure.

Tong
R4202
Oh, that's right, you're Calvinist. You think when Abraham believed God he was performing a work of merit.
 

Ferris Bueller

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Can you sincerely say with your own mouth and confess that “God is a God who allows Himself to fail in achieving some of His set goals, purposes...
You mean like his set goals and purposes for Israel? Yes, it's a trick question to make you think.

...and in bringing about some of what He had predestined to happen?
He will accomplish what he has predestined to happen. You're either included in it, or you're not. It's your choice to be included in it if you, of your own free will, receive and retain the invitation to be included.
 

stunnedbygrace

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Would you perfect in the flesh what you started by faith?

Much love!

oh my gosh, I’ve never met a single person who hasn’t got lost in that for some period of time. And it seems to mostly all be over the outside of the cup. It’s a bad place to be and it breeds pride and self righteousness. Because for most of us, we can keep the outside looking pretty good. But for the inside, the anger, seething resentments, hurt feelings and defense of self, that takes a miracle. So we work on the outside, judge others outwardly, but still hold all the filth inwardly. Sin is so deceitful. So then we get caught in trying to finish it by the flesh a SECOND time. It’s so miserable. Only a man who has been in it can know how horrible it is.

But it eventually leads to acceptance of what you are and what everyone else is and makes you realize God will have to do something or you will always stay that way, along with everyone else. And that’s a good place to be, even though waiting is odious to us.
 
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Tong2020

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Tong2020 said:
Well, in your view, perhaps God will thank you because you made sure you remained among those for whom the goal and purpose is fulfilled, that concerning you, He will not fail or not be a failure.
Oh, that's right, you're Calvinist. You think when Abraham believed God he was performing a work of merit.
Nope, I am not a Calvinist. I am a Christian. I am getting the impression that by resorting to that, you think you make a good argument. Well….no.

And no, I was not of the mind that when Abraham believed God, he was performing a good work.

So going back, with your view, God will thank you for believing and remaining believing in Him. For because of that, you have not caused Him to fail to achieve His purpose and predestination of you. That’s just what comes out of my your view. Nothing to do with whether one is a Calvinist or not. Nothing to do with Abraham either. Just have to do with your view.

Tong
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