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Here is what it all comes down to—- and you’d better get it right!

Discussion in 'Christian Theology Forum' started by Blood Bought 1953, Sep 5, 2021.

  1. Ferris Bueller

    Ferris Bueller Well-Known Member

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    As long as they believe and remain in his care, God will succeed in conforming them to the image of His Son.
     
  2. Ferris Bueller

    Ferris Bueller Well-Known Member

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    Not hateful, shrewd.

    "to the crooked You show Yourself shrewd" Psalm 18:26
     
  3. Tong2020

    Tong2020 Well-Known Member

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    Clearly then in what you say, God’s failure or success in conforming those whom God created anew in Christ Jesus depends on the person’s believing and remaining to believe. I get that. Though I believe God never fails to bring about and achieve His purposes.

    Besides, what you say there renders God’s predestination of those whom God had created anew in Christ Jesus to be conformed to the image of Jesus Christ, as though such predestination isn’t really a predestination.

    Tong
    R4198
     
  4. Ferris Bueller

    Ferris Bueller Well-Known Member

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    The goal is what is predestined, not who achieves that goal. That's what Calvinists can't understand.
     
  5. Tong2020

    Tong2020 Well-Known Member

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    Nope. No true Christian remains unchanged by God. They were created anew in Christ Jesus by God. The new creature in Christ Jesus, God had predestined to be conformed to the image of Jesus Christ. So that, one who remains unchanged and remains practicing sin is surely not one created anew by God in Christ Jesus. For as I pointed out, if he is, his destiny is to be conformed in the image of Jesus Christ.

    Tong
    R4199
     
  6. Tong2020

    Tong2020 Well-Known Member

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    Perhaps predestination of God means to you as not predestination after all.

    What my God had predestined, He will bring about and make to come to pass. My God does not fail to achieve His goals and purposes, much less the things that He had predestined and revealed.

    Tong
    R4200
     
  7. Ferris Bueller

    Ferris Bueller Well-Known Member

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    Which is why the Bible tells us to keep believing. You have to be believing in order to have all this. People who fall away don't get to remain in God's curriculum of being conformed to the image of Christ. You have to keep believing for that to happen.
     
  8. Ferris Bueller

    Ferris Bueller Well-Known Member

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    I agree. That's why we should make sure we remain among those for whom the goal and purpose is fulfilled.
     
  9. Tong2020

    Tong2020 Well-Known Member

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    Yes the bible says to keep believing. It is more of a reminder, not a condition that one should do to get himself saved nor for him to accomplish anything nor to not make God’s purposes, goal, predestination be a failure.

    Do you really and truly believe in your heart that God would fail in achieving any of His set goals, purposes, and predestinations? Is that really how you see God, one who can be a failure?

    Can you sincerely say with your own mouth and confess that “God is a God who allows Himself to fail in achieving some of His set goals, purposes, and in bringing about some of what He had predestined to happen? I do not believe you could and you would. Or am I wrong to believe so?

    Tong
    R4201
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2021 at 3:03 AM
  10. Tong2020

    Tong2020 Well-Known Member

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    Well, in your view, perhaps God will thank you because you made sure you remained among those for whom the goal and purpose is fulfilled, that concerning you, He will not fail or not be a failure.

    Tong
    R4202
     
  11. Ferris Bueller

    Ferris Bueller Well-Known Member

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    Oh, that's right, you're Calvinist. You think when Abraham believed God he was performing a work of merit.
     
  12. Ferris Bueller

    Ferris Bueller Well-Known Member

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    Believing is not the condition for getting saved? Are you listening to yourself, lol?
     
  13. Ferris Bueller

    Ferris Bueller Well-Known Member

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    No.
    What I believe is you do not know what is predestined that will not fail.
     
  14. Ferris Bueller

    Ferris Bueller Well-Known Member

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    You mean like his set goals and purposes for Israel? Yes, it's a trick question to make you think.

    He will accomplish what he has predestined to happen. You're either included in it, or you're not. It's your choice to be included in it if you, of your own free will, receive and retain the invitation to be included.
     
  15. stunnedbygrace

    stunnedbygrace Well-Known Member

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    oh my gosh, I’ve never met a single person who hasn’t got lost in that for some period of time. And it seems to mostly all be over the outside of the cup. It’s a bad place to be and it breeds pride and self righteousness. Because for most of us, we can keep the outside looking pretty good. But for the inside, the anger, seething resentments, hurt feelings and defense of self, that takes a miracle. So we work on the outside, judge others outwardly, but still hold all the filth inwardly. Sin is so deceitful. So then we get caught in trying to finish it by the flesh a SECOND time. It’s so miserable. Only a man who has been in it can know how horrible it is.

    But it eventually leads to acceptance of what you are and what everyone else is and makes you realize God will have to do something or you will always stay that way, along with everyone else. And that’s a good place to be, even though waiting is odious to us.
     
    marks likes this.
  16. Ferris Bueller

    Ferris Bueller Well-Known Member

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    Yep, but no matter how loudly you proclaim that by God's grace you're finally not 'that way' the person who hasn't gotten there yet will call you a legalist and a self righteous Pharisee.
     
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  17. stunnedbygrace

    stunnedbygrace Well-Known Member

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    So maybe just meet them where they are.
     
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  18. Tong2020

    Tong2020 Well-Known Member

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    Nope, I am not a Calvinist. I am a Christian. I am getting the impression that by resorting to that, you think you make a good argument. Well….no.

    And no, I was not of the mind that when Abraham believed God, he was performing a good work.

    So going back, with your view, God will thank you for believing and remaining believing in Him. For because of that, you have not caused Him to fail to achieve His purpose and predestination of you. That’s just what comes out of my your view. Nothing to do with whether one is a Calvinist or not. Nothing to do with Abraham either. Just have to do with your view.

    Tong
    R4203
     
  19. Ferris Bueller

    Ferris Bueller Well-Known Member

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    Call it what you want, but you define predestination the way the Calvinists do.
     
  20. Ferris Bueller

    Ferris Bueller Well-Known Member

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    But believing is works for those of us who don't define predestination the way you do, right?
     
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